... you can not justify such actions and blame US law.

It takes people to implement and use or abuse whatever laws against other people.

For this case, it looks to me like the USA has some "catch all and anyone and anything" laws that can be so vaguely interpreted that you all become 35 years+ felons.


Extreme or what?

Only in the USA?...
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

BULL COOKIES. First of all why would I hack into any internet forum when I can just join it. As long as I follow that forums TOS I am afforded the privallge of partaking that forums discourse.

All just a question of proportion and interpretation. Now argue your case against your government prosecutor demanding 35+ years of your life, taking 18 months to do it, all very expensive, and all for the sake of a positive career jump for the prosecutors...

And he ddint have unlimited access. He had limited acceess that he abused for two months by using aliases and other such means.
And now you state that there were others involved in this. Well now that puts a whole new spin on this case. Sounds like a group of like minded hackers who wanted to steal documents. And in your own quote you state software was written for Gonzales to use. HACKERS!!!!!!!
Sorry Martin you can not justify such actions and blame US law.

Now try actually reading the articles.


Only in the USA?

Land of the free or a land of those who can pay their lawyers fees?

Only in the USA?
Martin

I suggest you read the grand jury indictment. The first two pages state that for a fee you can access Jstor only 14 times a year. And that you abide by copyright laws.

I have read the articles maybe you should also.

Heres is the link so its easy for you. grandjuryindictment

I stand corrected MIT only allowed guest 14 visits to Jstor.

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[/quote]

Old James

Now try actually reading the articles.

Find one written by someone who understands the subject matter.
Hint: After the name of the author will appear JD.

---

i have read a number of article's on this and from what i gather, if i had a nic go

bad and replaced it changing my mac number and my dynamically allocated ip address

changed as they sometimes do i would have been guilty of one of the charges in

this case this is how lousily the statute is worded.

---

i have read a number of article's on this and from what i gather, if i had a nic go bad and replaced it changing my mac number and my dynamically allocated ip address changed as they sometimes do i would have been guilty of one of the charges in this case this is how lousily the statute is worded.

That goes for any nic where the firmware is updated and changes the MAC address which then acquires a new IP address... As happens I believe for some laptops/mobile hardware.

Hence run an update, by the law of the USA you must be locked away for 35+ years.

Also note that Aaron was no 'guest'. He rightly had full access as a member. No 'hacking' needed. I would expect anyone in the academic community to expect to have full access in any case in the name of Science.


All just?

Only in the USA?
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

i have read a number of article's on this and from what i gather, if i had a nic go bad and replaced it changing my mac number and my dynamically allocated ip address changed as they sometimes do i would have been guilty of one of the charges in this case this is how lousily the statute is worded.

That goes for any nic where the firmware is updated and changes the MAC address which then acquires a new IP address... As happens I believe for some laptops/mobile hardware.

Hence run an update, by the law of the USA you must be locked away for 35+ years.

Also note that Aaron was no 'guest'. He rightly had full access as a member. No 'hacking' needed. I would expect anyone in the academic community to expect to have full access in any case in the name of Science.


All just?

Only in the USA?
Martin

You need to go back and read the #9 paragraph. It clearly states Swartz was not affiliated at all with MIT.

Edit- Swartz was a fellow at Harvard Uni's Safra center for Ethics ( how ironic ) And Harvard provided Swartz with access to JSTOR services.
So why did he go to MIT ? Simple he was going to rip JSTOR off thats why.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Martin's refusal to look at and admit the facts of the case, frankly reminds me of the self deluded fervor of a Ufologist claiming to have been kidnapped and anal probed. They have a conclusion predetermined and will not allow facts to get in the way of their delusion. I can see that in many of his posts in other threads in politics. This is unfortunate as occasionally he does have some good information to impart, but most people will have long ago decided to ignore him or class him as a troll.

---

i have read a number of article's on this and from what i gather, if i had a nic go

bad and replaced it changing my mac number and my dynamically allocated ip address

changed as they sometimes do i would have been guilty of one of the charges in

this case this is how lousily the statute is worded.

Nah, first you would have had to have had the old mac number and IP blocked for abuse, then a log entry showing you got a blocked message, followed a couple minutes later with another attempt with a new mac and IP.

---

Nah, first you ...

... Must must appreciate just how vaguely worded that part of the USA law is and how a good (vindictive or career desperate?) attorney can twist the argument any way desired...

All with the vast resource of the USA government to destroy the victims everyday life for many months/years before any hope of any trial...


Only in the USA?
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Nah, first you ...

... Must must appreciate just how vaguely worded that part of the USA law is and how a good (vindictive or career desperate?) attorney can twist the argument any way desired...

All with the vast resource of the USA government to destroy the victims everyday life for many months/years before any hope of any trial...


Only in the USA?
Martin

Well then your hero should not have gone to another campus with his little laptop that had been altered. So he could steal more JSTOR files.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Nah, first you ...

... Must must appreciate just how vaguely worded that part of the USA law is and how a good (vindictive or career desperate?) attorney can twist the argument any way desired...

All with the vast resource of the USA government to destroy the victims everyday life for many months/years before any hope of any trial...


Only in the USA?
Martin

Poor little martin, never read any laws before ....

Go read your countries laws on money laundering ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#United_Kingdom

Unlike certain other jurisdictions (notably the USA and much of Europe), UK money laundering offences are not limited to the proceeds of serious crimes, nor are there any monetary limits, nor is there any necessity for there to be a money laundering design or purpose to an action for it to amount to a money laundering offence.

Only poor little martin who can not allow reality to intrude upon his predetermined conclusions ...

---

A money laundering offence under UK legislation need not involve money, since the money laundering legislation covers assets of any description. In consequence any person who commits an acquisitive crime (i.e. one from which he obtains some benefit in the form of money or an asset of any description) in the UK will inevitably also commit a money laundering offence under UK legislation.

The above should alarm every UK citizen. Why if you download a book from an altered computer you get a money laundering charge thrown against you along with a theft charge.

Swartz would have been guilty of that had he lived in the UK.

Only in the UK?

---

[/quote]

Old James

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57573487-93/iran-cuts-off-illegal-vpn-workaround-to-internet-filters/

Iran cuts off 'illegal' VPN workaround to Internet filters.

Government blocks use of popular tool used by many Iranians to circumvent Internet restrictions and mask their activities.

Only in Iran?

---

And so you are completely innocent and untouchable by whatever vague laws and rulings?


The example we're discussing, and the one you are guffawing at as though leaders of a lynch-mob, happens to have recently happened in the USA...


Only in the USA?
Are you next?

If you use the internet in any way, you may well be...

Only in the USA?
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

And so you are completely innocent and untouchable by whatever vague laws and rulings?


The example we're discussing, and the one you are guffawing at as though leaders of a lynch-mob, happens to have recently happened in the USA...


Only in the USA?
Are you next?

If you use the internet in any way, you may well be...

Only in the USA?
Martin

Ok, Martin show me an example of where A nic went bad and was replaced and a person was arrested and charged Because the IP changed.

Your hero does not count as he did it with malicious intent to steal articles he knew by JSTOR's terms and MIT's terms was illegal.

Only in the UK are you next?

---

[/quote]

Old James

Surprised Martin isn't all over this one ...
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/03/16/journalist-lawyer-says-prank-doesnt-merit-prison/

U.S. prosecutors say a journalist conspired with the hacking group Anonymous to cause an online security breach that should be punished by decades in prison. But online supporters of Matthew Keys say he was just taking part in a prank that briefly altered the Los Angeles Times' website and shouldn't be treated so harshly.

---

Surprised Martin isn't all over this one ...
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/03/16/journalist-lawyer-says-prank-doesnt-merit-prison/

U.S. prosecutors say a journalist conspired with the hacking group Anonymous to cause an online security breach that should be punished by decades in prison. But online supporters of Matthew Keys say he was just taking part in a prank that briefly altered the Los Angeles Times' website and shouldn't be treated so harshly.

Im suprised also. I wonder how Mr. Keys would have felt if it was just his bank account that was breifly changed?

Edit- Another young punk who thinks its ok to hack into another computer. Prank my keyster, more like revenge for being fired.

---

[/quote]

Old James

Im suprised also. I wonder how Mr. Keys would have felt if it was just his bank account that was breifly changed?

Edit- Another young punk who thinks its ok to hack into another computer. Prank my keyster, more like revenge for being fired.

Should you not be surprised that such a prank is so easily done?

Should not the person who left the "door open" for ANYONE to so easily walk in instead be the one suffering the threat of their life in jail?...

In comparison, how many years for someone spray-painting a bit of graffiti on a shop window?... Why should spray-painting instead a website instead incite death to the perpetrator?


For you example of your bank account/details: The banks suffer some well known vulnerabilities with the systems they have set up for their business. They allow the vulnerabilities for the sake of their improved profits... Yet I'm sure for the similar example of for example a car manufacturer selling cars with too-cheap-defective-brakes would soon be pursued and legislated against...

Why victimize the users of shoddy IT?...


Only in the USA?
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

So Martin doesn't think that a password is a lock.

Now we know why he doesn't understand the serious felony crime of breaking and entering.

Pick a lock, break a window, try passwords, all the same.

Only felons do these things.

---

... a password is a lock.

Now we know why he doesn't understand the serious felony crime of breaking and entering.

Pick a lock, break a window, try passwords, all the same.

Only felons do these things.

Then you know nothing of locks or of IT. Or you're just trolling as usual.

By your own rules, please lock yourself away for a few years for wasting our time with your drivel of non-discussion.


(BTW: In case you really don't get it, a password is not a lock. And there is still the hugely disproportionate draconian response to IT silliness as compared to real world silliness. Can you get real? Guess not...)

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)