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Cafe SETI :
Discussion of Cafe games #5
Message board moderation
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Author | Message |
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rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22204 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
The rule we are working to is: If the picture has an obvious copyright logo, or message, then its not permitted, otherwise its OK until we are told otherwise. Do not forget that some sites attach the message when the picture is linked to in isolation (that is, not called from the hosting site), so check a couple of minute after posting to make sure it is clear. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
.clair. Send message Joined: 4 Nov 04 Posts: 1300 Credit: 55,390,408 RAC: 69 |
I do apoligise for the email/PM bomb some of you will be geting, hiding the whole thread is the quickest way, hiding each photo individualy would have taken days to do and been much worse than it is. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
Looks like all pictures are banned. After all, 100% of pictures are copyrighted. I think a more sensible action would be to disable the [ img ] tag and be done with the problem. Well not pictures you have taken yourself, I believe that if you are in a public place all self shot photos belong to you. So in theory you can post them anywhere, and I do. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
No apologies necessary Clive. The thread had become boring long ago with picture after picture of locomotives. Let's just scrap the whole thing and find another game that is more intellectually challenging than just using google. Might have been nice to have been told in advance. I was not expecting 22 "Thread Closed" emails |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Do not forget that some sites attach the message when the picture is linked to in isolation (that is, not called from the hosting site), so check a couple of minute after posting to make sure it is clear. The complaining site should be told to change its htaccess file so that they don't serve up the photo in the first place. Then copyrighted photos come up as a empty box. Otherwise the Berne Convention needs to be strictly enforced. Every photo, drawing, gif, avatar, weather bug, signature credit listing, is copyrighted. The copyright exists upon being fixed in a tangible media. A notice does not have to accompany the item for the copyright to be valid and enforceable. |
Michael Roberts Send message Joined: 20 Aug 99 Posts: 2588 Credit: 791,775 RAC: 0 |
No, only copyrighted pictures for which there is no permission or other relevant justification need to be banned. Examples which are OK include:
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James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
No, only copyrighted pictures for which there is no permission or other relevant justification need to be banned. Examples which are OK include: Which is why we will wait for the legal staff to decide, Not wikianything. If i have a legal issue i would talk to a lawyer in the field I need, Not go to Wiki. [/quote] Old James |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
Just my 2 cents..... Which may or may not be legally binding or correct. I think this whole copyright issue is much ado over nothing. I would think that fair use would cover the posting of pics in a public forum for the sole purposes of playing a game. Nobody is using them for profit, advertising, or any other commercial purpose. Nobody is making multiple copies and posting them all over the net. Nobody, except in certain cases, is claiming the pictures are their property. In fact, many of them are watermarked with the source. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22204 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
The statute of limitation for copyright is defined in some jurisdictions by a period of time after the death of the copyright owner, unless it is extended by the estate. Which makes it very hard to see, just by looking at the date of a picture, if it is in copyright. And remember, the jurisdiction that applies is that of the copyright holder, not the country in which the poster lives, or where the servers are hosted.... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
I hear what you are saying Mark and fair comment. But Seti is funded by the University of California, Berkeley, therefore it has to be absolutely 100% squeaky clean. Particularly as it's boards and forums are publicly and freely viewable. Isn't the way forward here to simply have some other Cafe Game, or games, that can be enjoyed by Setizens, perhaps involving a bit more intellect, and less reliance upon search engines to find pictures. I don't play the games much anyway, so it does not really affect me that much. The pics I post are few and far between, usually in the caption thread. I guess it's up to the legalistas at Berk to determine if somehow reposting a single copy of a picture posted elsewhere on the internet for no profit, gain, or claim falls under fair use. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
Its not just protecting U.C. Berkley but maybe also the poster of said copyrighted pics. Not saying it could happen but you could find an E-mail claiming you have posted x-amount of my material you owe me x-amout of dollars. Yes a not likely scenario but hey there are folks out there who go after violators. [/quote] Old James |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
I came by chance upon a discussion about copyright and the new way Google displays pictures, you are able to see the full size picture without going to the website concerned, artists and photographers were up in arms because this meant less people were visiting their sites and therefore not seeing the copyright notices. They had not put copyright notices on because all you could see before was a thumbnail. So in a nutshell it is probably safer to avoid photos and paintings unless you are sure it is OK. I liked the thread, I used to enjoy searching Google and I always tried to find unusual pictures but am obviously of low intellect. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The statute of limitation for copyright is defined in some jurisdictions by a period of time after the death of the copyright owner, unless it is extended by the estate. Which makes it very hard to see, just by looking at the date of a picture, if it is in copyright. Except for corporations, which obviously don't die. And remember, the jurisdiction that applies is that of the copyright holder, not the country in which the poster lives, or where the servers are hosted.... Partly. However it the copyright owner registers it in another country then that set of laws also covers the work. Until the hair has been split ten ways you haven't begun to understand copyright ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I would think that fair use would cover the posting of pics in a public forum for the sole purposes of playing a game. Your Honor, this "game" obviously adds value to the "store." As such the use of our copyrighted material can in no way be considered fair use ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Its not just protecting U.C. Berkley but maybe also the poster of said copyrighted pics. Not saying it could happen but you could find an E-mail claiming you have posted x-amount of my material you owe me x-amout of dollars. First though you have to make a copy of the material. Posting a link is not making a copy. Other than avatars and the profile pages I thought it was impossible to post anything except text. (Except Eric, Matt, Jeff) However I am very concerned this proactive approach may have forever lost the UC Regents the ability to claim in court that they are a 3rd party ISP and can not be sued for content posted by others on their site. (Don't forget the Seti computers are the legal property of the Regents. Don't know if there is a lease agreement or what that allows Seti to use them. More hairs to be split.) But by acting without specific complaint the can of worms is open that every post will have to be approved by a moderator before it can appear. |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22204 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
I'm sorry to say, but the American view does not apply throughout the World, indeed some countries actually see the USA as a "leaky sieve" in the area of copyright. There are an immense number of hairs to be split, and lawyers to be paid - and that's where the numb of the matter is. Do you want to see S@H taken down while the lawyers argue and fill their wallets? Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
We did have an onwer of a sight E-mail us saying if his posts were used hotlinking or not you must buy a liscense. Thats why all this has happend. I dont care what wiki says about hotlinking. IM rather dubious of them anyway. We wait and see what legal says. [/quote] Old James |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
We wait and see what legal says. Legal says. That is what should have been waited for before any action or inaction, now you have a fait accompli. |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
We wait and see what legal says. Go back to the cafe posts from 2006 and see all the hidden posts for copyright violations. And the bannishments for posting them. The cat was out of the bag 7 years ago. [/quote] Old James |
Dimly Lit Lightbulb 😀 Send message Joined: 30 Aug 08 Posts: 15399 Credit: 7,423,413 RAC: 1 |
The thing is you don't know how someone will react seeing their images on another site. Some may like the extra attention (possible sales), others will see it as copyright infringement and go straight to the layers, not even bothering with an e-mail to us saying that they don't want their images appearing on the forums and could we please remove them. Then there also a bandwidth issue. Hotlinking is using their bandwidth in showing the images here, we don't know what their penalties/costs are if they use more than X a month. Member of the People Encouraging Niceness In Society club. |
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