If ET wrote the Bible, would u read it?


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Profile Chris SProject donor
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Message 1294130 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 10:50:41 UTC
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 10:51:54 UTC

What on earth would be the point of cloning someone in a physical likeness of 3000 BC with no memories of that time? They would still be born and brought up in the 21st Century with 21st century values!

They are not going to "come back" and rule as it was in those days!!!

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Message 1294137 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 11:01:43 UTC - in response to Message 1294130.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 11:06:29 UTC

What on earth would be the point of cloning someone in a physical likeness of 3000 BC with no memories of that time? They would still be born and brought up in the 21st Century with 21st century values!

They are not going to "come back" and rule as it was in those days!!!

Chris,
Ok, so you understand that we can clone a human being, good!. And the clone, lets say King Tut as an example, would be an identical DNA copy of the King Tut that lived in Egypt thousands of years ago.

So todays scientists clone the guy, and, naturally he would be named "Tutankhamun", because we know exactly who he is. And as he grows up, because everyone worldwide knows who he is, he would be raised as royalty. And he would have teachers that would teach him everything about ancient Egypt, and about his previous life. He will get very special treatment because of who he is!

So by the time this cloned King Tut is about 20 years of age, he would know exactly who he is, and he would be one of the most famous celebrities in the world! He would be on every TV show and everyone would revere him. The Egyptians would crown him king!

THIS WILL HAPPEN CHRIS!

John.

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Message 1294154 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 11:49:42 UTC

Yes, we all know that the ability to clone animals has been proved and that cloning human beings is also scientifically possible, and will happen one day. Yes it is interesting that these ancient civilisations practiced rituals that promised resurrection and an afterlife. Yes it is obvious that they at their stage of knowledge would know nothing about DNA and cloning.

Yes it is interesting to wonder who might have taught them to do those things, and what for what reason. It may be evidence of a previous ET visitation, but why would they promise to come back and resurrect everybody, what would be in it for them? Maybe over zealous priests of the day trying to maintain their hierarchy.

If you wish to believe the second coming of the Pharaohs Johnney then be my guest. You can dream all you like it is not going to happen. I can't imagine that 82 million Egyptians would go along with it, and I expect that the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, and Mohammed Morsi as Egypt's fifth President, might have a few misgivings as well, and not least the UN. The world already has one Dalai Lama.

All of the worlds religions have to do three things to maintain their credibility and keep their worshipers. Firstly they have to give them something to look forward to and believe in if they follow the prescribed doctrine i.e. usually a happy afterlife. They also have to give an alternative scenario if they fall by the wayside, usually hellfire and brimstone or its equivalent. Lastly they have to preach that the rest of the worlds unbelievers will be got rid of and only them will be left.

Just because old books proclaimed that certain things would happen and we now know that it could be scientifically possible, does not mean any of it will actually happen. It was their way at the time of controlling the population and maintaining the status quo. I think you are letting yourself get sidetracked with this religious fervour of yours which is overshadowing other work you could be usefully doing.










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Message 1294160 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:03:52 UTC - in response to Message 1294137.

What on earth would be the point of cloning someone in a physical likeness of 3000 BC with no memories of that time? They would still be born and brought up in the 21st Century with 21st century values!

They are not going to "come back" and rule as it was in those days!!!

Chris,
Ok, so you understand that we can clone a human being, good!. And the clone, lets say King Tut as an example, would be an identical DNA copy of the King Tut that lived in Egypt thousands of years ago.

So todays scientists clone the guy, and, naturally he would be named "Tutankhamun", because we know exactly who he is. And as he grows up, because everyone worldwide knows who he is, he would be raised as royalty. And he would have teachers that would teach him everything about ancient Egypt, and about his previous life. He will get very special treatment because of who he is!

So by the time this cloned King Tut is about 20 years of age, he would know exactly who he is, and he would be one of the most famous celebrities in the world! He would be on every TV show and everyone would revere him. The Egyptians would crown him king!

THIS WILL HAPPEN CHRIS!

John.


Why would a Christian want to "reincarnate" King Tut? Surely it makes more sense to pump the stomach of a Catholic after they've taken Eucharist. Transubstantiation tells us that you'll have the body and blood of Christ, and surely with enough of that scientists will be able to reconstruct His DNA?
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1294163 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:10:25 UTC - in response to Message 1294160.


Why would a Christian want to "reincarnate" King Tut? Surely it makes more sense to pump the stomach of a Catholic after they've taken Eucharist. Transubstantiation tells us that you'll have the body and blood of Christ, and surely with enough of that scientists will be able to reconstruct His DNA?


Naw, the current stuff just has to be counterfeit as the original has been diluted too much over the past 2000 years.
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Message 1294166 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:19:09 UTC

Chris,
I really don't understand why YOU don't understand what i am explaining.

You seem to be ok with the fact that you can actually clone a human being, even if person has been dead for a long time. So long as we can extract a crystallised DNA sample from the bone, we can recreate the person. This cloned person is the equivalent of the original persons twin. Its like a woman have identical twins today. Its not complex, its easy to understand.

I don't understand why you think todays Egyptians would not want to clone King Tut. The Egyptians love the guy!! He is one of their favourite Pharaohs of all time. The whole world loves King Tut. Personally myself, i would love to meet the guy! All the television stations would be fighting to get him on TV.

And i also don't understand why you think all the worlds religions are keeping everyone down. Why Chris? Why do you think that? All the religions of the world have always been the educators. They have been the ones that have passed down the ancient books that tell the truth. Its the religions that let people know that they will be resurrected to a second life, and Chris, this is the truth. Its not just King Tut, everybody will be cloned, including you and me. And people will be judged. If you led a good life, people will like you. If you led a bad life, like Adolf Hitler, well the Jews won't be too pleased with him.

Why are you so skeptical of this Chris? All the worlds religions teach people the truth. Its not lies Chris, its reality.

John.

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Message 1294170 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:37:58 UTC - in response to Message 1294002.

I've already read the bible (KV version0, albeit many many years ago.

Note: That's just one of very many different versions. All random multiple inaccuracies? Or across the multiple versions and across the ages, political evolution in action?


Wasn't terribly impressed. If it turns out that aliens wrote that racist, misogynistic, homophobic, hate filled piece crap then I'd be mostly disappointed and depressed.

All sounds very Human and highly believable for a localised history that expands outwards as the "known world" expands for the authors.


In the supposed days of the Garden of Eden (nope, that's NOT Apple Computers and their walled 'garden'...), the "World" was the immediate area of the Holy Lands. Everything more distant was the unknown region called the "World of God".

Until explorers ventured beyond their garden boundary...


All wrapped up in the "grandiose metaphor" of the time for thus: To be able to give Stories, or even to be able to Write, demanded that being told or written to be "Something Special and Grand, or at least grandly dire"...


Now translate into modern language.

Still a best seller if only for the sake of longevity and monopolistic pulpit practices! Thou Shalt BUY IT ALL!!


Perhaps Marketing pre-dates religion?

Keep searchin',
Martin

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Message 1294171 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:38:24 UTC - in response to Message 1294095.

... So in my mind, God sounds just like any of the human generals, army leaders, kings, presidents, and tribal warlords that have ...

... Power, fear, coercion over those naming them "god".

Hence the how and why for our custom of using such names in vain?...


In my mind, God sounds just like us. God sound human!

For God is but a Human invention...


Keep searchin',
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Message 1294172 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:38:37 UTC - in response to Message 1294108.

THE PROOF IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, if you just wake up and open your eyes!


Epiphany?


Oooeerr...

Keep searchin',
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Message 1294173 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:38:50 UTC - in response to Message 1294154.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 12:39:59 UTC

Yes, we all know that the ability to clone animals has been proved and that cloning human beings is also scientifically possible, and will happen one day. ...

Errr... Isn't that happening already many times each and every day?...

As in when humans and other creatures give birth to twins.

Also note all the research and results for the "nature" or "nurture" arguments surrounding how twins develop. (I consider most likely there is a combination of both, in that some things are 'pre-programmed' and the rest develops dependant upon genetic traits/predisposition and external influence/experience. ... But that is for another thread...)


Keep searchin',
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Message 1294174 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 1294166.

Wake up John. Cloning has become a science fact rather than the science fiction it once was.

However, the one thing that cannot be cloned is the subconscious mind & one's memories.

So should you or I be cloned, they will not be the same as us: They'll be just 2 dumb shells.
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Message 1294177 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 12:55:37 UTC - in response to Message 1294174.

Wake up John. Cloning has become a science fact rather than the science fiction it once was.

Ahhhhh... yes, this is exactly what i have been saying.


However, the one thing that cannot be cloned is the subconscious mind & one's memories.

So should you or I be cloned, they will not be the same as us: They'll be just 2 dumb shells.

Sirius,
How is a human baby a "dumb shell", to quote your exact words?

If you had noticed, just a few posts back, i explaind to Chris how it works. Its not complex, its easy to understand.

This is what i said to Chris:
Chris,
Ok, so you understand that we can clone a human being, good!. And the clone, lets say King Tut as an example, would be an identical DNA copy of the King Tut that lived in Egypt thousands of years ago.

So todays scientists clone the guy, and, naturally he would be named "Tutankhamun", because we know exactly who he is. And as he grows up, because everyone worldwide knows who he is, he would be raised as royalty. And he would have teachers that would teach him everything about ancient Egypt, and about his previous life. He will get very special treatment because of who he is!

So by the time this cloned King Tut is about 20 years of age, he would know exactly who he is, and he would be one of the most famous celebrities in the world! He would be on every TV show and everyone would revere him. The Egyptians would crown him king!



John.

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Message 1294179 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:01:19 UTC - in response to Message 1294177.

Sorry that won't work as by the time he reached 20, he would be too accustomed to the corruption & if the Egyptians made him their leader, it would not take him long to become another Saddam Hussein!

Think about it, rather than using the bible & "your lost book" as reference points - instead use today's world as that reference point.

If you still fail to grasp the situation, scour the international news for at least a week: - Fundamentalists stuck in the 13th century wanting the 21st century to go back 800 years just so that they can rule that world?

You think the world will let them do that?
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Message 1294186 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:18:41 UTC - in response to Message 1294179.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 13:21:06 UTC

Sorry that won't work as by the time he reached 20, he would be too accustomed to the corruption & if the Egyptians made him their leader, it would not take him long to become another Saddam Hussein!

Think about it, rather than using the bible & "your lost book" as reference points - instead use today's world as that reference point.

If you still fail to grasp the situation, scour the international news for at least a week: - Fundamentalists stuck in the 13th century wanting the 21st century to go back 800 years just so that they can rule that world?

You think the world will let them do that?

Sirius B,
Your niggling over very minor points that only concern my example of King Tut.

Lets try someone more recent, someone that everyone today knows and loves.

Elvis Presley!! Died: August 16, 1977

Now Elvis isn't dead that long, it will be easy peasy to get a DNA sample from his grave. And everybody LOVES Elvis!! You think people won't want to hear Elvis sing those songs again! Elvis Presley WILL LIVE AGAIN! and the whole world will welcome him back with open arms. Elvis will be the King people always wanted him to be.

THIS WILL HAPPEN! and it will happen very soon!

We could stay here naming people all day. We could argue if these people will be accepted or rejected when they are cloned. But the fact remains, this is about to happen, and everyone was told about it in the Bible.

To Quote Jesus Christ:
John 3:7 "You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’"

John 3:7

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Message 1294190 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:28:49 UTC - in response to Message 1294186.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 13:29:08 UTC

You still don't "get it". Elvis gets cloned, would be nice as I enjoyed his music.

However, who's to say that the "Cloned" Elvis wants to be a singer? He might want to be President!

But, if you then state that he can be taught & shown what the original did, wouldn't he then become your puppet?
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Message 1294192 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:37:12 UTC - in response to Message 1294190.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 13:38:52 UTC

You still don't "get it". Elvis gets cloned, would be nice as I enjoyed his music.

However, who's to say that the "Cloned" Elvis wants to be a singer? He might want to be President!

But, if you then state that he can be taught & shown what the original did, wouldn't he then become your puppet?

How is this complex?

Are you a puppet? No your not. So why would Elvis be a puppet? When he is cloned, he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to be a baker, thats his choice. If he wants to do knitting competition's on the weekends, then thats what he will do. But in my personal opinion, knowing what the original Elvis was like, i would imagine he might want to sing an occasional song. But hay, what the heck, maybe he won't. Its irrelevant.

The point is about the resurrection of the dead. The Bible said its going to happen, and i'm pointing out that, in actuality, its about to happen in the next few years! And the vast majority of the world us unaware that its about to happen.

John.

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Message 1294194 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:39:34 UTC

At this point I just give up. There is simply no point in trying to discuss anything sensibly with Johnney. I have agreed with him that there seems to be evidence of past ET visits to earth, and that DNA cloning can happen. But as far as the rest of it goes I'm afraid he's off with the fairies. He has these religious fixations that he seems to genuinely believe in, and simply cannot understand why others don't agree with him.

I thought that King Tut was far fetched enough, now we have Elvis Presley ...... Whoever next? Abraham Lincoln?

But the fact remains, this is about to happen, and everyone was told about it in the Bible.

If I came back here in 20 years I'm sure he would still be saying the same thing. I find it all rather sad really. Walks off shaking ones head.

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Message 1294195 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:42:24 UTC - in response to Message 1294194.

At this point I just give up. There is simply no point in trying to discuss anything sensibly with Johnney. I have agreed with him that there seems to be evidence of past ET visits to earth, and that DNA cloning can happen. But as far as the rest of it goes I'm afraid he's off with the fairies. He has these religious fixations that he seems to genuinely believe in, and simply cannot understand why others don't agree with him.

I thought that King Tut was far fetched enough, now we have Elvis Presley ...... Whoever next? Abraham Lincoln?

But the fact remains, this is about to happen, and everyone was told about it in the Bible.

If I came back here in 20 years I'm sure he would still be saying the same thing. I find it all rather sad really. Walks off shaking ones head.


Why Chris? Do you think its not going to happen? Is that it?

John.

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Message 1294196 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:43:17 UTC - in response to Message 1294194.

Yep, same here. Now I understand why the Irish were the butts of many jokes. Just a shame that we all got tarnished with the same brush.
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Message 1294199 - Posted: 12 Oct 2012, 13:55:33 UTC - in response to Message 1294195.
Last modified: 12 Oct 2012, 13:59:00 UTC

Do you think its not going to happen? Is that it?

You can get the ingredients of another "Jesus" just by random circumstance. No Divine Intervention or inventions needed.

Does that count as being "born again"?

There are ideas and passions that transcend mere cloned bodies. More significant is what whatever body does. And then also, ideas can have a body and will of their own if known by (enough) people to be exercised and given life...


Keep searchin',
Martin

(Apologies for the backwards ID pun... Ouch! :-) )
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