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If ET wrote the Bible, would u read it?
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20310 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Yes, we all know that the ability to clone animals has been proved and that cloning human beings is also scientifically possible, and will happen one day. ... Errr... Isn't that happening already many times each and every day?... As in when humans and other creatures give birth to twins. Also note all the research and results for the "nature" or "nurture" arguments surrounding how twins develop. (I consider most likely there is a combination of both, in that some things are 'pre-programmed' and the rest develops dependant upon genetic traits/predisposition and external influence/experience. ... But that is for another thread...) Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Wake up John. Cloning has become a science fact rather than the science fiction it once was. However, the one thing that cannot be cloned is the subconscious mind & one's memories. So should you or I be cloned, they will not be the same as us: They'll be just 2 dumb shells. |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
Wake up John. Cloning has become a science fact rather than the science fiction it once was. Ahhhhh... yes, this is exactly what i have been saying.
Sirius, How is a human baby a "dumb shell", to quote your exact words? If you had noticed, just a few posts back, i explaind to Chris how it works. Its not complex, its easy to understand. This is what i said to Chris: Chris, John. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Sorry that won't work as by the time he reached 20, he would be too accustomed to the corruption & if the Egyptians made him their leader, it would not take him long to become another Saddam Hussein! Think about it, rather than using the bible & "your lost book" as reference points - instead use today's world as that reference point. If you still fail to grasp the situation, scour the international news for at least a week: - Fundamentalists stuck in the 13th century wanting the 21st century to go back 800 years just so that they can rule that world? You think the world will let them do that? |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
Sorry that won't work as by the time he reached 20, he would be too accustomed to the corruption & if the Egyptians made him their leader, it would not take him long to become another Saddam Hussein! Sirius B, Your niggling over very minor points that only concern my example of King Tut. Lets try someone more recent, someone that everyone today knows and loves. Elvis Presley!! Died: August 16, 1977 Now Elvis isn't dead that long, it will be easy peasy to get a DNA sample from his grave. And everybody LOVES Elvis!! You think people won't want to hear Elvis sing those songs again! Elvis Presley WILL LIVE AGAIN! and the whole world will welcome him back with open arms. Elvis will be the King people always wanted him to be. THIS WILL HAPPEN! and it will happen very soon! We could stay here naming people all day. We could argue if these people will be accepted or rejected when they are cloned. But the fact remains, this is about to happen, and everyone was told about it in the Bible. To Quote Jesus Christ: John 3:7 "You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’" John 3:7 |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
You still don't "get it". Elvis gets cloned, would be nice as I enjoyed his music. However, who's to say that the "Cloned" Elvis wants to be a singer? He might want to be President! But, if you then state that he can be taught & shown what the original did, wouldn't he then become your puppet? |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
You still don't "get it". Elvis gets cloned, would be nice as I enjoyed his music. How is this complex? Are you a puppet? No your not. So why would Elvis be a puppet? When he is cloned, he can do whatever he wants. If he wants to be a baker, thats his choice. If he wants to do knitting competition's on the weekends, then thats what he will do. But in my personal opinion, knowing what the original Elvis was like, i would imagine he might want to sing an occasional song. But hay, what the heck, maybe he won't. Its irrelevant. The point is about the resurrection of the dead. The Bible said its going to happen, and i'm pointing out that, in actuality, its about to happen in the next few years! And the vast majority of the world us unaware that its about to happen. John. |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
At this point I just give up. There is simply no point in trying to discuss anything sensibly with Johnney. I have agreed with him that there seems to be evidence of past ET visits to earth, and that DNA cloning can happen. But as far as the rest of it goes I'm afraid he's off with the fairies. He has these religious fixations that he seems to genuinely believe in, and simply cannot understand why others don't agree with him. Why Chris? Do you think its not going to happen? Is that it? John. |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24879 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Yep, same here. Now I understand why the Irish were the butts of many jokes. Just a shame that we all got tarnished with the same brush. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20310 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Do you think its not going to happen? Is that it? You can get the ingredients of another "Jesus" just by random circumstance. No Divine Intervention or inventions needed. Does that count as being "born again"? There are ideas and passions that transcend mere cloned bodies. More significant is what whatever body does. And then also, ideas can have a body and will of their own if known by (enough) people to be exercised and given life... Keep searchin', Martin (Apologies for the backwards ID pun... Ouch! :-) ) See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
Do you think its not going to happen? Is that it? Martin, I don't know what that means? You are "Martin ML1". I don't know you full name, and it doesn't matter. Martin if you have a brother called Billy, then Billy is Billy, and nobody else. If you have a sister called Mary. Mary is Mary and there will never be another Mary. You are "Martin ML1", and there will never ever ever be another "Martin ML1" no matter how many genetic combinations you go through. So Jesus is the same. There was one Jesus, and only one Jesus. You will never ever ever randomly get the same "Jesus" combination of DNA, ever! Martin when you die, you will be born again. Or put another way, Martin you will be cloned after you die. John. |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen! Only religious nuts believe in that sort of stuff. "It will happen because god told me so". No he didn't, just because you read something in a book that is what you want to believe, you have convinced yourself it is true. But you are too prone to exaggeration and emotional rhetoric to try to get your point across to others. Chris, My understanding of what you said there is that you don't think people can be cloned. Well Chris this is simple science. This is happening right now today with plants and animals. And it will happen with human beings. In a few years, people will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and they will dig up their dead relatives and DNA samples will be taken, and their dead relatives will be cloned, and brought back to life! This is a scientific certainty! Whether you believe it or not Chris is completely irrelevant, it will happen! You won't have any say in the matter. John. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20310 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... There was one Jesus, and only one Jesus. You will never ever ever randomly get the same "Jesus" combination of DNA, ever! However, there are enough people across the world and across time that although you will not get an exact copy, you will very likely get someone who behaves and acts very similarly to the presumed "Jesus". No God needed for that. Martin when you die, you will be born again. Or put another way, Martin you will be cloned after you die. Even if fancifully so, would I know? Or rather, would the clone pick up my mental state and experiences from the moment that I had died?... You can do that for computers and software. (Hence why I went into computer engineering: get it wrong and you can still hit reboot to get back to get it right. The wet squishy stuff has certain critical thresholds irreversibly leading to "game over"...) So far however, we are a very long way away from being able to do that with squishy biological wet ware that has died and evaporated! Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
No, if your cloned, your clone won't have any recollection of the past life. No more than you can remember any of the memories that were in your fathers head the day your father and mother slept together and created you. But the cloned YOU, will be taught about the YOU that exists today. Using the Elvis example, the cloned Elvis will not remember his previous life. But people WILL teach him about his previous life. And the cloned Elvis can watch all the TV shows and films he made the first time around.
Martin we are NOT a long way off from it, wrong! Its about to happen in the next few years. Just a few days ago, they gave out the 2012 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine to 2 scientists for the discovery of what is known as "iPS cells" or "Induced pluripotent stem cells"; http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2012/press.html Martin "iPS cells" are the "key" to human cloning. In the press statement, the Nobel Prize press office don't use the words "Human cloning", and the scientists don't use the words "Human cloning" in their science papers. But thats what it is about! iPS cells allow you to "reset" the clock on any living cell back to the start. In effect, they can take a skin cell and turn it back into an embryonic stem cell, or an embryo. This means we could clone you just by scratching some skin off your finger and reseting the cell to make a brand new "Martin ML1". This is real, its happening right now. Just most people don't read the latest edition of Nature Genetics or the Journal of Cell Biology. John. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20310 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... But the cloned YOU, will be taught about the YOU that exists today. ... That sounds just like normal parenting. No cloning needed unless you don't like sex with the opposite sex. Keep searchin', Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Johnney Guinness Send message Joined: 11 Sep 06 Posts: 3093 Credit: 2,652,287 RAC: 0 |
conclusion: Michel, You made some really good points there! Yes, when you clone someone, its effectively a brand new baby. And just like any new baby, it starts from scratch and learns the alphabet, goes to school, and learns everything from scratch. You are correct, this does give the cloned person a brand new personality from the first guy. So the clone most definitely will be different. BUT!! You can "teach" the cloned person about their first life. John. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
conclusion: Which is quite a long way from: In a few years, people will go into their local grave yards with mechanical excavators and they will dig up their dead relatives and DNA samples will be taken, and their dead relatives will be cloned, and brought back to life! Why bother with the digger? To get a physical likeness? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
That has always been postulated Robert, that if there were ET visitations in the past then apart from the locals trying to record that for posterity, you would think that they would leave some sort of message that would only be found when that society was sufficiently advanced to recognise it. Really? Are you saying Tut was not found? Are you saying Tut was found outside his pyramid? And you claimed before that no pyramid was entered before 1900, yet others say that they'd be looted for centuries, and Jedifray's was looted perhaps the most, when Romans actually took it apart, largely, stone by stone, to use the stones for other purposes. |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Oh fer hecks sake, of course it is not going to happen! Only religious nuts believe in that sort of stuff. "It will happen because god told me so". No he didn't, just because you read something in a book that is what you want to believe, you have convinced yourself it is true. But you are too prone to exaggeration and emotional rhetoric to try to get your point across to others. You know that'w NOT what he said. Time for people to fill out DNCs, just like DNRs? |
renee Send message Joined: 7 Oct 12 Posts: 34 Credit: 324,817 RAC: 0 |
Writing the bible would make ET a liar. |
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