Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhh...here we go again...US bashing. Has anyone stopped to think of the victims families here?

you wanna start a numbers game...well I'm up for it...hhhmmmnnnnn, lets see....

There's Europe - possibly 100's of millions over the past 500 years...

Hmmmm...how many for Japan - leaving out WWII....what about their war with China...ahhhh...only 6 or was that 7 individuals only? I've lost count....considering I only have 7 fingers & 6 toes

Middle East genocide before ANY US involvement....hmmn maybe 3?

African continent - how many there any before US involvement?

Asian continent - how many there before any US involvement?

sarcasism mode off.......

Europe, Asia & Africa were sqabbling amongst themselves long before the US was "Found" by Columbus

I'm not very religious but this does come to mind....

"Let those without sin cast the 1st stone"

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news flash: people play games with numbers.

But using civilians AS weapons is a new low in the form of humanity.

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Janice

Until Mankind evolves to a higher plane that will no longer accept killing of any kind, Mankind today will continue in a perpetual circle.

Each nation remembers their fallen in their own way & for other nations to decry that is a disgrace (individuals can be used instead of the words - nation/nations).

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I'd say since UN forming there is real sign of civilization began so the International Court and any kind of foreign national sovereignty respectation requirements etc's began to be forced on all UN member nations.

So in this kind of "UN environment supposed civilized age" if any country with any reason beginning to kill sizable numbers of citizens of other countries that is war crime and sometime later the International court must punish those criminals.

Well in recent time it began with Slobodjan Melojich something and it should continue with George Bush, Tony Blair, Putin, Zian Zenmin etc's. (I know with some of names it is far distant dream for current reality but according to UN civilized principles it must be done perhaps in the next generation.)

Remember the very reason of UN forming is payed by 70-90 million peoples life during 1939-1945 by German/Japanese fascism. So I'd say dark age was fully in force until then and probably today it is still half dark age that war criminals smiling enjoying getting honored by governments in USA, UK, Russia, China, France and their African Equals everywhere.

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Mandtugai!

Lets not forget the 40 million of WWI which led to the League of Nations(the original UN).

so...

UN 1 = failed
UN 2 = failed

3rd time lucky maybe?

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Somehow it seems grossly inappropriate to be slamming the US in its time of pain and remembering.


Sure, we might have caused some of it to other nations, but healing starts with forgiving and moving on.

Rubbing salt in a wound during a time of pain seems to only reinforce bad sentiments and angst.


Is this really what we need right now in the world?

So the rest of the world should be quiet because 9/11 happens to be a day of pain and remembering for the US? Really? Should Chile should pick another day to mourn its losses because 9/11 is now ours?

Care to point out how you came to that conclusion based upon what I said?

Lets not forget the 40 million of WWI which led to the League of Nations(the original UN).

so...

UN 1 = failed
UN 2 = failed

3rd time lucky maybe?

Well judging Serbian war criminal is not so small start. So morally citizens of defendant nations and victim nations have same opinion on war criminals and that is spoken between them is big support for UN principles future.

But for the case of USA and other 4 main nations the UN is some kind of policy toy that is understood everywhere. In many key principles USA, UK, France conspire vs russian and chinese conspiracy so that war criminals in those countries have a chance to be legally honored.

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Mandtugai!

According to UN ORG/1469, there are 193 members of the UN. Care to name the "other 4 main nations" as you've only mentioned 3, but if you count both Russia & China mentioned in the same post..that makes 5......

I don't think the other main nations would appreciate being ignored....

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Those names were told in the next sentence of the same post.

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Mandtugai!

So in this kind of "UN environment supposed civilized age" if any country with any reason beginning to kill sizable numbers of citizens of other countries that is war crime and sometime later the International court must punish those criminals.

Um... actually that is the definition of War, not "War Crime".

Now if they are civilian non combatants(something everyone is playing games with, pretending all of their casualties are uninvolved) AND they are intentionally targeted, then you may have a point.

Until then...

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Janice

The bottom line here is that any country in the world can declare a day of mourning for some event in it's history that was caused by outside forces. It just so happens that the USA has the biggest media coverage of such events and probably the widest TV audience. I don't remember hearing a claim that the USA has an exclusive right to commemorating the event.

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Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

In my point of view, the US as all the right to have a ceremony regarding 9/11, If there are other countries where this data as a special meaning like in the US for sure this countries have them in their agendas.
Like Bob has said, the US has the 2nd largest media cover in the world, (UK Royal family as the first), and as a consequence the world get’s aware of this events and ceremonies.
True, that the US is the 1st military power of the world and also one of the more important political powers, since the declining of the United Kingdom and the European countries after World War I, that the US started to get the role of those countries.
To argue about all the political and military mess that the US created in the last 100 years is useless, to say that the US international politics is evil for me is quite dubious and lead nowhere.
No one is exempt of guilt and almost any nations in the world have black stains in their history, even a country like Belgium.
We can hate presidents like Bush, or dislike presidents like Nicolas Szarkozy, chancellors like Angela Merkel (AKA Madame Teflon), Think that Tony Blair is a idiot, but the truth is that they have taken decisions that had changed the world as we know it.
Nevertheless, I still believe that everyone as the right to morn for the victims of 9/11 or for any other victims of other senseless act of violence.
So please now stop bashing in the US, because if we go back in to the history books we will find reasons to bash in almost any country of this world, more we don’t need to go very far back in history, just go 20-30 years or maybe less.

Justice is what is pleasing to the strong.

Socrates


on a related note for you Latin Scholars:

(Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.)

(Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.)

Some say that was the moto of the Bush administration, I have serious doubts about this.

However i have to reconize one thing, the scale of justice is not perfect, as since the invention of the court of law that it has two weights and several measures.

And any law is made by or for the powerfull

Somehow it seems grossly inappropriate to be slamming the US in its time of pain and remembering.


Sure, we might have caused some of it to other nations, but healing starts with forgiving and moving on.

Rubbing salt in a wound during a time of pain seems to only reinforce bad sentiments and angst.


Is this really what we need right now in the world?

So the rest of the world should be quiet because 9/11 happens to be a day of pain and remembering for the US? Really? Should Chile should pick another day to mourn its losses because 9/11 is now ours?

Care to point out how you came to that conclusion based upon what I said?

Asking questions is not reaching a conclusion. Your post was not a reply to a specific post and appeared to be a comment on the thread in general, and thus primarily a comment on the thread subject and the OP. My apologies if that was not the intent of your post.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

So the rest of the world should be quiet because 9/11 happens to be a day of pain and remembering for the US? Really? Should Chile should pick another day to mourn its losses because 9/11 is now ours?

Pardon me for getting in this late...I have not seen anything where anyone says the US reserves exclusive claim to 9/11 Nor have I seen anyone insist another country be quiet about their own 9/11 experience.

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My point was one of perspective.
I also mourn the loss of innocent lives on that 2001 morning.

It just seemed that the US is playing the victim card all too well because they were the target of the hostilities on that day.
One gains a different perspective when the sword is gripped by the opponent's hand rather than gripped in your own.

No one, but the Chileans, marks the Sept 11 when the US had a firm grip.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

The loss of 9-11 is clear to all but there are some gains. And it is for special interest groups in america that in the past 10 years oil groups and defense contractor groups effectively numerous times multiplied their sizes versus their middle class effectively shrank. So actually for all weapons producers and oil producers around the world it is special celebrative day that 2 wars and 2-4 trillions of dollars of war prospecting mega event occurred for them.

If you dig in this department actually many dots really begin to get connected that Bush was first chosen by a oil businessmen to be nominated for Republicans.

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Mandtugai!

So the rest of the world should be quiet because 9/11 happens to be a day of pain and remembering for the US? Really? Should Chile should pick another day to mourn its losses because 9/11 is now ours?

Pardon me for getting in this late...I have not seen anything where anyone says the US reserves exclusive claim to 9/11 Nor have I seen anyone insist another country be quiet about their own 9/11 experience.

Thanks Blurf, as the second person to make that kind of observation perhaps you can read my reply to the first observation? And perhaps Ozz can clarify the intent of his post, as it stands it appears to me that he finds it distasteful that Robert could have the audacity to suggest 9/11 is anything other than a private affair for the US. If I am wrong, fine, it won't have been the first time, and I have already apologized.

Perhaps a reminder of where I was on 9/11/01 is in order before you and/or Ozz criticize me further on this matter:

bobby wrote:

I've posted a link to this clip a couple of times already to this thread, the second plane can be heard and seen, the view from the camera person's vantage point was very similar to the view from the office I worked in until 9/11/01.

Thank you Robert for attempting to add perspective.

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

And perhaps Ozz can clarify the intent of his post, as it stands it appears to me that he finds it distasteful that Robert could have the audacity to suggest 9/11 is anything other than a private affair for the US.

That was not the intent of my post. If I were responding to Robert, I would have hit "reply" or "quote" to his first post.

[qote]Perhaps a reminder of where I was on 9/11/01 is in order before you and/or Ozz criticize me further on this matter:

bobby wrote:

I've posted a link to this clip a couple of times already to this thread, the second plane can be heard and seen, the view from the camera person's vantage point was very similar to the view from the office I worked in until 9/11/01.

I remember that thread very well. In fact, as recently as a few months back I referred some Truthers right here on this board to that fine thread, and I admired your dedication to spreading factual data about that fateful day. I'll even admit that I was on the fence about our government's involvement but your work has convinced me that it just doesn't make sense for them to have done it.

I didn't criticize you Bobby, I just didn't see any other way to take my post until I read your reply to me, and it left me a little dumbfounded until I tried reading it from your perspective. I am trying harder to be more clear in my posts.