Seems my Generation decided spanking was bad and shouldn't be done. I say look at the youth crime rate today as opposed to the 70's and before...Violent crime among youths is crazy, obviously spanking wasn't the cause....Kids at some school yesterday start as a snowball fight ends up being a brawl for a hour, that stuff didn't happen when I was young. When I was a kid, on a Friday night you could drive around and see 100 cars at a house, park knock on door offer $1.00 and all the beer you wanted. No fights and if there was it was over when someone gave and NO WEAPONS EVER!!!!!Kids can't do that today as someone will feel DISRESPECTED and want to KILL the other kid. I feel this is all the parents fault and maybe the spankings and feelings that come from them are needed, this DISRESPECT I keep hearing about is clearly parents not teaching their kids about "Sticks and Stones".....My 14 year old Granddaughter got kicked out of school for fighting and her mother told her it is OK and that she shouldn't let others disrespect her...When I was in school that was just a part of it and it made you stronger inside. I was always too short in school and have been the brunt of many school yard pranks but never felt like Hitting or Killing anyone....I had to go cut the switch from the tree when I was in trouble, gave me lots of time to think.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

carlin caught this one. the current generation of kids aren't allowed to see success and failure. They are only expected to feel good about themselves no matter what happens. Self esteem educators profess was the key to making brighter kids
As Carlin points out, Sociopaths and mass muderers have very high self worth.

All this generation is is a bunch of sociopaths that can never achieve anything because they've never been allowed to succeed or fail on their own. I remember fondly being on one of the worst kids baseball teams. kids barely knew how to play. we had fun and lost virtually every game. I can look back because by seeing my weaknesses improve myself and overcome the losses. Heck when I look back I was glad I played ball. the score doesnt matter now but it did then. Kids need to learn to accept defeat and with luck prepare themselves better to overcome past failures. After all Human instinct is to use trial and error to work through our problems. Ignoring a problem doesnt make it go away. working with problems helps us learn.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Skildude I am in shock! I agree with what you wrote 100% but that's a conservative view point.
To this day I learn far more from my mistakes than I do my successes. It also teaches you not to act or open your mouth till you have thought about it because one looks like a fool when you are wrong. On the other hand, being right and looking like a genius feels good.

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Seems my Generation decided spanking was bad and shouldn't be done. I say look at the youth crime rate today as opposed to the 70's and before...Violent crime among youths is crazy, obviously spanking wasn't the cause....Kids at some school yesterday start as a snowball fight ends up being a brawl for a hour, that stuff didn't happen when I was young. When I was a kid, on a Friday night you could drive around and see 100 cars at a house, park knock on door offer $1.00 and all the beer you wanted. No fights and if there was it was over when someone gave and NO WEAPONS EVER!!!!!Kids can't do that today as someone will feel DISRESPECTED and want to KILL the other kid. I feel this is all the parents fault and maybe the spankings and feelings that come from them are needed, this DISRESPECT I keep hearing about is clearly parents not teaching their kids about "Sticks and Stones".....My 14 year old Granddaughter got kicked out of school for fighting and her mother told her it is OK and that she shouldn't let others disrespect her...When I was in school that was just a part of it and it made you stronger inside. I was always too short in school and have been the brunt of many school yard pranks but never felt like Hitting or Killing anyone....I had to go cut the switch from the tree when I was in trouble, gave me lots of time to think.

I received a few spankings when I was young and several times it was because my parents couldn't figure out who started it. I didn't deserve those, but about the only lasting effect it it has made me more sensitive to some forms of pain.
I don't think the reason to spank is for punishment. One should spank to get the kids attention when they stop listening. It's something to use as a last resort but should never be off the table. By applying this rule it helps to prevent giving a spanking while your are angry as a spanking should only be given to a child when you are in control of your own emotions.
It has been shown that child abusers tend to have been abused as a child so spanking can be harmful if used as the only form of punishment, but that not to say that one spanking is going to cause a kid to become an abuser. Like every tool, it has it's place.

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Had MY butt whacked by the old man back then.....but not more than once or twice.

Made you listen to his logic....and you did not question it again.

Daddy done right. My work ethic and my faith in God came from him.

Never picked up a gun until I was 19.......If I did, I knew Dad would kill me with it.

He didn't mind gurlys in the house, as long as they picked up after themselves.

Gave me the garage to fix my shit........more than once after a midnight mailbox ramble. He lives in Texas now.......with one of my ex-girlfriends......LOL.

She was too old for me anyhow.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

whats surprising is kids would rather look something up on the internet then actually read or do it. I can't get my kids to read a book. I see this as kids not being able to imagine or use their own minds eye to create a scene. they require visual assistance. I hope that we get back to the good old days where we strive to win but learn from failure.

I'll even take this to current, political strife that is rampant in the US today. We have a certain group that is in the minority in Congress that instead of being constructive decided enmasse to be obstructive. then you have the Majority that when it comes to power defers to the minority. They are so afraid of failing that they are willing to do nothing. so in a nutshell you have people that dont want to do anything and others that aren't willing to try.

This is a symptom of our society. Lets do something, anything. Just do it. We know deregulation hurt the country. so regulate. We as a people have enough failure without learning or striving to improve on it. We already had President Nero/Bush ignoring everything and anything that would improve everyones lives and not just the one percenters. We've seen the failure yet we continue to do the same things. Define Dysfunctional!!!! Vote me into office. I'd do what it takes to right the boat. I could care less if I got reelected I'd be in office to fix the errors of the past and pass legislation that will noticed and codify what went wrong and why I wanted the change.

Being right has taken precedence over the truth. We've seen it time and again. politicians doing the right thing but ignoring the truth. Usually the right thing means getting reelected. the Truth would have probably gotten them booted out.
Perhaps thats what we need. Visionaries are not millionaires worried about how the new tax code affects their bottom line but how it affects everyone else. Thats the idea of the system. elected officials are supposed to represent us. Yet by and large they represent special interest groups. I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue. It's not about disinterest its because the system has failed the common man/woman.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

whats surprising is kids would rather look something up on the internet then actually read or do it. I can't get my kids to read a book. I see this as kids not being able to imagine or use their own minds eye to create a scene. they require visual assistance. I hope that we get back to the good old days where we strive to win but learn from failure.

I'll even take this to current, political strife that is rampant in the US today. We have a certain group that is in the minority in Congress that instead of being constructive decided enmasse to be obstructive. then you have the Majority that when it comes to power defers to the minority. They are so afraid of failing that they are willing to do nothing. so in a nutshell you have people that dont want to do anything and others that aren't willing to try.

This is a symptom of our society. Lets do something, anything. Just do it. We know deregulation hurt the country. so regulate. We as a people have enough failure without learning or striving to improve on it. We already had President Nero/Bush ignoring everything and anything that would improve everyones lives and not just the one percenters. We've seen the failure yet we continue to do the same things. Define Dysfunctional!!!! Vote me into office. I'd do what it takes to right the boat. I could care less if I got reelected I'd be in office to fix the errors of the past and pass legislation that will noticed and codify what went wrong and why I wanted the change.

Being right has taken precedence over the truth. We've seen it time and again. politicians doing the right thing but ignoring the truth. Usually the right thing means getting reelected. the Truth would have probably gotten them booted out.
Perhaps thats what we need. Visionaries are not millionaires worried about how the new tax code affects their bottom line but how it affects everyone else. Thats the idea of the system. elected officials are supposed to represent us. Yet by and large they represent special interest groups. I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue. It's not about disinterest its because the system has failed the common man/woman.

The best way to interest children to read book is to give them a few fictional books. For me it was science fiction but for others it could be detective books or romance. The classics such as Mark Twain, Jack London or Jules Vern are also a good place to start.
As for the problem of politics, I am working on an idea for a thread about that but I have found I need to learn more about the topic before I can make a fully factual post on the subject. A short description on what I am working on is for about 125 years the progressive movement has been trying to tear down what our founding father established in the constitution and replace it with Marxism and we all know how well that worked out in the Russia. It's a history I didn't know anything about 1 year ago but it has shaped the politics of the twentieth century. So much for schools teaching us all the history we need. The progressive movement is not limited to one political party but has infected both.
I have found very little about the subject on the internet and what I have found tends to be slanted toward the progressive ideas so I have had to order books on the subject. Most of them have just arrived so more when I get through all of them and had some time to digest the ideas.
This is the first time I have had a book that's painful to read. It's had to describe but part of it is the way the book is written and part is the subject matter. I don't think the book I am working on could be written any other way, but this will take some time.

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I'm interested to know which books you have ordered Dena.

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

I'm interested to know which books you have ordered Dena.

Fair question. I don't know how well you understand the American mindset and the American Constitution, but these books work from the view point of what has gone wrong with our original country and when. As we are not a Socialist country yet, they are somewhat opposed to your view point as I know them.
The one that's very hard to read but very important in understanding the American Progressive movement is Woodrow Wilson and the roots of modern liberalism
The second one I have only skimmed so far but it covers American Progressivism up to around 1918 with many articles written by american figures. American Progressivism
The third one I have also only skimmed but it's more detailed follow up on my other reading about the Great Depression. FDR was a progressive that had a very large impact on what America has become and this book looks at the real effect of his term in office. New Deal or Raw Deal
The last book has not shown up but I am ordering it because the other work I have seen by the author.
Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left
Glen Beck exposed me to the fact that there was another political movement in the country that few people knew about but has altered the country so much that the founding father would no longer see what they had created. We found the progressive ideas so offensive that they have had to change their name three but going on four times in order to stay active.
I don't think you will enjoy the books but you may like them because you will find that we have done far more to become socialist than you may have thought.

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I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue.

Not voting is how the special interests get into power. If you can't stand either of the parties, vote for the third or fourth party on the ballot. If enough did that it would send the message. Not voting simply keeps the status quo of special interest money and slime politics.

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I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue.

Not voting is how the special interests get into power. If you can't stand either of the parties, vote for the third or fourth party on the ballot. If enough did that it would send the message. Not voting simply keeps the status quo of special interest money and slime politics.

Whoever said perhaps not to vote has a point. Politics is a flawed system, when was the last time you benefited from your vote?

Doesn't mean I don't vote though. I do. But seriously, I decide to vote National (your republicans) & John Key (your John McCain) in our 2008 election, he and the National Party take power, and all of a sudden GST rises from 12.5% to 15%!

And yet, all of the time his election campaign was "are you better off than you where in 2005?".

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- Luke.

I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue.

Not voting is how the special interests get into power. If you can't stand either of the parties, vote for the third or fourth party on the ballot. If enough did that it would send the message. Not voting simply keeps the status quo of special interest money and slime politics.

Voting for someone else just to send a message, and not basing the vote on the merits of the candidate themselves is one of the worst reasons to vote.

It isn't voter apathy that's the problem. It's the choices given, and the given fact that it will always be a politician's game.

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Maybe Voting is Pointless....Here in Washington the People voted that taxes couldn't be raised without a vote by the people...Our legislators feel they know better than the People they represent and have chose to suspend the people vote and do whatever they choose anyway. I wouldn't have thought something like that was even legal but as usual the Government does what it wants and the People mean Absolutely nothing....At least NONE of the people that voted for the Suspension will EVER get another vote from me.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

I'm thinking that maybe I wont vote this year. And perhaps if more people said enough then maybe they'd get a clue.

Not voting is how the special interests get into power. If you can't stand either of the parties, vote for the third or fourth party on the ballot. If enough did that it would send the message. Not voting simply keeps the status quo of special interest money and slime politics.

Voting for someone else just to send a message, and not basing the vote on the merits of the candidate themselves is one of the worst reasons to vote.

It isn't voter apathy that's the problem. It's the choices given, and the given fact that it will always be a politician's game.

We know that no candidate from either of the major parties in the USA has any merit whatsoever. It is a requirement to get $$$$$$ from their party.

If we were to send to congress a bunch that were from all different parties, they either would do nothing, not bad, or would do only the common good.

Voting for someone because he belongs to a party is the worst possible vote.

In any case we need a None of the Above on every ballot.

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Voting for someone because he belongs to a party is the worst possible vote.

In any case we need a None of the Above on every ballot.

Agreed and agreed.

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Maybe Voting is Pointless....Here in Washington the People voted that taxes couldn't be raised without a vote by the people...Our legislators feel they know better than the People they represent and have chose to suspend the people vote and do whatever they choose anyway. I wouldn't have thought something like that was even legal but as usual the Government does what it wants and the People mean Absolutely nothing....At least NONE of the people that voted for the Suspension will EVER get another vote from me.

OK here's my take on the whole west coast "no new taxes without a vote from the people" You already voted. Its called an election. you expect miracles from your elected officials when you take away the one power that ensures that they can meet your needs and the needs of others. If you dont like how someone is voting on bills then you should get the power of voter recall. this is a more appropriate and direct means of ousting the foul-ups from their elected posts. FOrcing them to ask the people if they can raise taxes is a pointless endeavor, just look at what is happening in California. They can't raise taxes so they have to cut everything. Hope you like holding onto your garbage a few extra days or the complete lack of public service when they close down for weeks at a time. How is it some of the richest states have the hardest time making ends meet.

Texas is no prize either we rely completely on sales tax. so if people stop buying crap the state loses money. Our wonderful Governor smiled and expected praise when he announced in a debate that not only had he reduced corporate taxes from 4% to 1%. Most citizens pay a total of 8.25% of which is 4% state tax. /back on topic... So he eliminates 75% of taxes from corporations who are selling less, then tell the Fed He doesnt want the $500 million in stimulus funds. then turns around and begs the Fed for $600 million in emergency loans. which answers the question, What is chutzpa? So instead of taking a large some of free money he'd rather borrow it. I can't tell if its the lack of foresight or just stupidity that runs this state. Judging by our statewise education level(49th in the country only barely ahead of Mississippi) that we are dealing with some really stupid people

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Maybe Voting is Pointless....Here in Washington the People voted that taxes couldn't be raised without a vote by the people...Our legislators feel they know better than the People they represent and have chose to suspend the people vote and do whatever they choose anyway. I wouldn't have thought something like that was even legal but as usual the Government does what it wants and the People mean Absolutely nothing....At least NONE of the people that voted for the Suspension will EVER get another vote from me.

OK here's my take on the whole west coast "no new taxes without a vote from the people" You already voted. Its called an election. you expect miracles from your elected officials when you take away the one power that ensures that they can meet your needs and the needs of others. If you dont like how someone is voting on bills then you should get the power of voter recall. this is a more appropriate and direct means of ousting the foul-ups from their elected posts. FOrcing them to ask the people if they can raise taxes is a pointless endeavor, just look at what is happening in California. They can't raise taxes so they have to cut everything. Hope you like holding onto your garbage a few extra days or the complete lack of public service when they close down for weeks at a time. How is it some of the richest states have the hardest time making ends meet.

Texas is no prize either we rely completely on sales tax. so if people stop buying crap the state loses money. Our wonderful Governor smiled and expected praise when he announced in a debate that not only had he reduced corporate taxes from 4% to 1%. Most citizens pay a total of 8.25% of which is 4% state tax. /back on topic... So he eliminates 75% of taxes from corporations who are selling less, then tell the Fed He doesnt want the $500 million in stimulus funds. then turns around and begs the Fed for $600 million in emergency loans. which answers the question, What is chutzpa? I can't tell if its the lack of foresight or just stupidity that runs this state. Judging by our statewise education level(49th in the country only barely ahead of Mississippi) that we are dealing with some really stupid people

Washington is already one of the highest taxed States...Our problem is all the Mis-spending and the reason for the vote. The Democrats own our State and spend like there is no tommorrow...I think you need a balance of parties or things really go down the drain.

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

Maybe Voting is Pointless....Here in Washington the People voted that taxes couldn't be raised without a vote by the people...Our legislators feel they know better than the People they represent and have chose to suspend the people vote and do whatever they choose anyway. I wouldn't have thought something like that was even legal but as usual the Government does what it wants and the People mean Absolutely nothing....At least NONE of the people that voted for the Suspension will EVER get another vote from me.

OK here's my take on the whole west coast "no new taxes without a vote from the people" You already voted. Its called an election. you expect miracles from your elected officials when you take away the one power that ensures that they can meet your needs and the needs of others. If you dont like how someone is voting on bills then you should get the power of voter recall. this is a more appropriate and direct means of ousting the foul-ups from their elected posts. FOrcing them to ask the people if they can raise taxes is a pointless endeavor, just look at what is happening in California. They can't raise taxes so they have to cut everything. Hope you like holding onto your garbage a few extra days or the complete lack of public service when they close down for weeks at a time. How is it some of the richest states have the hardest time making ends meet.

Texas is no prize either we rely completely on sales tax. so if people stop buying crap the state loses money. Our wonderful Governor smiled and expected praise when he announced in a debate that not only had he reduced corporate taxes from 4% to 1%. Most citizens pay a total of 8.25% of which is 4% state tax. /back on topic... So he eliminates 75% of taxes from corporations who are selling less, then tell the Fed He doesnt want the $500 million in stimulus funds. then turns around and begs the Fed for $600 million in emergency loans. which answers the question, What is chutzpa? I can't tell if its the lack of foresight or just stupidity that runs this state. Judging by our statewise education level(49th in the country only barely ahead of Mississippi) that we are dealing with some really stupid people

Washington is already one of the highest taxed States...Our problem is all the Mis-spending and the reason for the vote. The Democrats own our State and spend like there is no tommorrow...I think you need a balance of parties or things really go down the drain.

Illinois is a very high taxed state as well, and our funding problems are horrid. Of course, Illinois famously has some of the most corrupt politicians in the nation.

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OK here's my take on the whole west coast "no new taxes without a vote from the people" You already voted. Its called an election. you expect miracles from your elected officials when you take away the one power that ensures that they can meet your needs and the needs of others. If you dont like how someone is voting on bills then you should get the power of voter recall. this is a more appropriate and direct means of ousting the foul-ups from their elected posts. FOrcing them to ask the people if they can raise taxes is a pointless endeavor, just look at what is happening in California. They can't raise taxes so they have to cut everything. Hope you like holding onto your garbage a few extra days or the complete lack of public service when they close down for weeks at a time. How is it some of the richest states have the hardest time making ends meet.

California has done one thing that many other states can't or won't. It has recalled it's Supreme Court Justices. The ones now sitting know that all power flows from the ballot box. There won't be any hanky panky tax emergency crap that allows the legislature to get away with theft.

What California voters have done is expose how incredibly poor politicians are at projecting a budget. At the local level when the housing market crashed and with it ad valorem taxes the local governments found themselves out of cash because they made too many deals with kickbacks to the high bidder. Those massive tax breaks given to get a big box store are now forcing the people who granted them into facing bankruptcy.

The California voter has been remarkably consistent in saying what he wants. He wants about 3/4 of the tax money spent on education. He has told them that there will be no raises in any tax rates, but go ahead and have user fees. Make the government do the rest on 1/4 which essentially forbids pork barrels. The politicians refused to hear it and put in their pork barrels.

Of course it isn't entirely California's fault. It hasn't helped that only a fraction of the federal tax dollar from a California Resident gets spent in California. Without that federal spending coming back to California it hurts California's income tax collection.

Of course something amazing also happened. California elected some politicians who actually lived up the the promises they made when they ran for office. They said no new taxes and voted down new taxes. Who would have ever thought there were honest politicians?

Of course the real issue is that budgets are done on $ amounts and not % of revenue. With revenue falling like a waterfall spending hasn't. So the legislature has been called back time and again to rework the $ amounts. Makes for a lot of hot air and chest thumping.

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