Just a recent reminder on the plight of whales around the world:

Whale experts meet to solve mystery deaths of southern right species

More than 300 southern right whales have been found dead in the last five years in the waters off Argentina's Patagonian coast


Some of the remaining whale species are still down to just a few thousand.

There's very good comments for the article:

Is Peninsula Valdes an area rich in salmon farming? Are the waters there poisoned by salmon farm effluents?

This article would be much better if it addressed the environment the whales are born into and grow in, the region where the young feed. Anthropogenic causes are the likeliest factor in the deaths-- but this article says nothing about that.

Also, is there a krill fishery in Chile? There is one in British Columbia, and it is having a devastating effect on both wild salmon and orca whale populations. But again, not a word from Ms. Jowit about any of that.

Oh well. One aspect is certain. Any investigation by the Chilean authorities will completely ignore any anthropogenic factors, such as salmon farms and krill fisheries. The fact that we are emptying the oceans of all life will be ignored as well, and so these deaths will remain one of those unsolvable riddles that so haunt us when we choose to ignore the basic facts right there in front of us.



The oceans are not infinitely large compared to the industrial vastness extracting all life.

Regards,
Martin

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I'd be much happier if you would stay on topic and quit the attempts at putting human genicide along side the extinction of a species.

At least a half dozen species of humans have gone extinct and there is no apparent loss. On the scale of recognized crimes species extinction is not a crime but genocide is. So is plain murder.

BTW whales are very intelligent animals. they have languages and families. its not like they're hunting rabbits

As for intelligence I recited the conclusive discriminant. Try sneaking up on a deer in an SUV. But one can kill whales from a ship with engines in the tens of thousands of horsepower. The things are so dumb they don't know enough to run away.

It appears this is either a Bambi syndrome or the more obvious blatant racism directed towards the Japanese.

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Dumb? how is a whale going to run away? it has no legs. it also isnt aware of the intent of every boat that passes by. When the Japanese engage in their "research" they use radar to locate and track schools of Whales. Once they encounter the whales Ships can maintain 25 knots until it runs out of fuel. A whale needs to breath every minute or so. eventually a whale will tire and be exposed to the harpooner. everytime it breachs the water the harpooner has an oportunity to shoot a whale. Heck whales were an easy target in the 1800's what makes you think that they'd be able to defeat a highly sophisticated modern slaughter operation.

I don't see a dumb animal. i see an intelligent animal used for food. I wouldnt eat my neighbors dog and i wouldnt eat whale

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Dumb Whales? What have they done recently to screw the Earth up? How many whales do you here about doing Mass Murders? And I also believe the word you wanted would be "Stupid" Whales and I don't think they are that either, their brains just work differently from ours. I would be willing to bet that you have never had a "real" Dog friend, they certainly have feelings.

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There's an utterly amazing lack of any news whatsoever for the Greenpeace Tokyo Two and also for Pete Bethune of Sea Shepherd. Some sort of news blackout/ban for the Japanese judicial system?

Meanwhile, it looks like there is not only myself disgusted with the farce of CITES and the human politics...

Conservationists arm gamekeepers as CITES fails critical species


Still DISGUSTED with the Japanese whalers and also with all the brazenly selfishly stupid Japanese hypocrisy!

Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
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There's an utterly amazing lack of any news whatsoever for the Greenpeace Tokyo Two and also for Pete Bethune of Sea Shepherd. Some sort of news blackout/ban for the Japanese judicial system?
Martin

SOP. In Japan, unlike perhaps your country, there is a 100% total news blackout on judicial cases. This to protect the defendant from being found guilty in the press before the trial. Of course, since you aren't arrested unless you are guilty ...

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Dumb? how is a whale going to run away? it has no legs.

Ever hear metaphor?

it also isnt aware of the intent of every boat that passes by.

I did not say the SUV contained hunters. Ever try to sneak up on a deer in any vehicle or even on foot? You are positing smart. I am comparing reaction to humans between deer and whales. Where is the error?

When the Japanese engage in their "research" they use radar to locate and track schools of Whales. Once they encounter the whales Ships can maintain 25 knots until it runs out of fuel.

What is the range of the radar? The ship noise should be at least 7 nm.

A whale needs to breath every minute or so. eventually a whale will tire and be exposed to the harpooner. everytime it breachs the water the harpooner has an oportunity to shoot a whale. Heck whales were an easy target in the 1800's what makes you think that they'd be able to defeat a highly sophisticated modern slaughter operation.

If only it were so easy for deer. I am only talking smart. It has been a long time but if I remember correctly licenses for deer are issued five times the number of kills desired.

You said smart. I say the results indicate dumb. I presume the ratio of brain to body weight is available some place.

I don't see a dumb animal. i see an intelligent animal used for food. I wouldnt eat my neighbors dog and i wouldnt eat whale

Ordinarily westerners only have a problem with insects and companion animals as food. Where did you get a food phobia about whales? Did you work at it?

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The origin of the Yahweh Cult

Dumb Whales? What have they done recently to screw the Earth up? How many whales do you here about doing Mass Murders? And I also believe the word you wanted would be "Stupid" Whales and I don't think they are that either, their brains just work differently from ours. I would be willing to bet that you have never had a "real" Dog friend, they certainly have feelings.

Lets see. How many whales do I "here" about doing mass murders? I presume none of your friends are krill.

If I were not the verbose type I would leave it at that presumption. I am the type which asks how their brains do work since you have expressed a knowledge of how their brains work. I did not say they work differently from just ours.

I implied and mean however their brains work is it not in the way that any other known mammal species reacts to a mortal threat that has been a mortal threat for at least 4000 years for which we have evidence. Every other mammal, no matter how high on the predator chain, learns real fast to avoid humans.

Imagine if you will North America 12000 years ago when herds of mammoths ran in fear of humans on foot. Imagine if you will at the same time in Mesopotamia a teenage male with a sling protecting a flock of sheep from a pack of wolves.

You tell me what is wrong with your pet whales.

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Unvarnished
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your argument becomes more obtuse as you go along. You do realize that a whales weight is mostly blubber which it uses to keep from freezing to death. Whales are not deer and whales clearly don't react like a deer every time they hear a ship in the ocean. If this were the case we'd have whales racing everywhere they go. This isn't the case. About the only time you see a whale attempt to flee a ship is when the ship comes at the Pod at high speed. When this happens the pod moves out of the ships way. however they do flee when the ship intentionally changes course to intercept the pod.

You may not be aware of this but Right whales are known to bob in the water, head up tail down, when they sleep. It's also known that these whales have been hit by, usually cargo, ships in the oceans. So, no the average whale doesnt have any instinct to run from shipping. Instead they seem to not even pay it any attention until some fool starts shooting at them.

sorry but at times I wonder if you only argue for the sake of arguing a null point.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

The big problem nowadays is that we seem to own everything, every living creature.
We breed geese for their liver (and abusing them therefore), cows for their meat
and cows for milk, chickens for meat and chickens only to lay eggs, several animals only for their skin. And we have so much offal! We live in a throw away society!

The Indians used everything from the buffalo, they didn't throw anything away.
We are really spoiled, everything has to be done according to our needs, it's a damn shame:(

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Dumb Whales? What have they done recently to screw the Earth up? How many whales do you here about doing Mass Murders? And I also believe the word you wanted would be "Stupid" Whales and I don't think they are that either, their brains just work differently from ours. I would be willing to bet that you have never had a "real" Dog friend, they certainly have feelings.

Lets see. How many whales do I "here" about doing mass murders? I presume none of your friends are krill.

If I were not the verbose type I would leave it at that presumption. I am the type which asks how their brains do work since you have expressed a knowledge of how their brains work. I did not say they work differently from just ours.

I implied and mean however their brains work is it not in the way that any other known mammal species reacts to a mortal threat that has been a mortal threat for at least 4000 years for which we have evidence. Every other mammal, no matter how high on the predator chain, learns real fast to avoid humans.

Imagine if you will North America 12000 years ago when herds of mammoths ran in fear of humans on foot. Imagine if you will at the same time in Mesopotamia a teenage male with a sling protecting a flock of sheep from a pack of wolves.

You tell me what is wrong with your pet whales.

The brain of the sperm whale weighs 7,800g, the elephant's weighs 7,500g, man's weighs 1,500g, the dolphin's 840g, and the brain of a mouse weighs 0,4g. If these figures are used to determine intelligence, then the sperm whale and the elephant are five times as intelligent as man, who in turn is twice as intelligent as the dolphin, which in turn is 2,000 times as intelligent as a mouse. Should we rank animals in order of how large their brains are in relation to their body weight, then the mouse would come out on top with its brain comprising 3.2%, the dolphin's 0.9% and the sperm whale's 0,021%. Neither absolute brain weight nor the relationship between brain weight and body size provide us with sensible criteria for comparing the intelligence of different species.

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the brain size can be elevated vs body weight by the animals needs more brain to deal with specifics in its environment. A mouse has better eyesight and sense of smell thus those areas of the brain are enlarged. they have little frontal lobes unlike humans where the frontal lobes are enormous.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

your argument becomes more obtuse as you go along. You do realize that a whales weight is mostly blubber which it uses to keep from freezing to death.

It is a well known measure that has been around for decades. You can likely bring yourself up to speed merely by googling.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

The big problem nowadays is that we seem to own everything, every living creature.
We breed geese for their liver (and abusing them therefore), cows for their meat and cows for milk, chickens for meat and chickens only to lay eggs, several animals only for their skin. And we have so much offal! We live in a throw away society!

Once one gets beyond a subsistence level economy which only about half the humans and all other species have there are certain luxuries. However your knowledge of how animals are raised and processed is somewhat beyond pathetic. Do you really mink carcasses are destroyed instead of turned into food for other animals?

The Indians used everything from the buffalo, they didn't throw anything away. We are really spoiled, everything has to be done according to our needs, it's a damn shame:(

The noble savage arises from its two centuries dead philosophical grave.
It's Lazarus risen! says Tom Bolyn.

Care to name one of our food animals that is not used completely?

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

your argument becomes more obtuse as you go along. You do realize that a whales weight is mostly blubber which it uses to keep from freezing to death.

It is a well known measure that has been around for decades. You can likely bring yourself up to speed merely by googling.

I brought you up to speed but you seem to have ignored it....

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
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The brain of the sperm whale weighs 7,800g, the elephant's weighs 7,500g, man's weighs 1,500g, the dolphin's 840g, and the brain of a mouse weighs 0,4g. If these figures are used to determine intelligence, then the sperm whale and the elephant are five times as intelligent as man, who in turn is twice as intelligent as the dolphin, which in turn is 2,000 times as intelligent as a mouse. Should we rank animals in order of how large their brains are in relation to their body weight, then the mouse would come out on top with its brain comprising 3.2%, the dolphin's 0.9% and the sperm whale's 0,021%. Neither absolute brain weight nor the relationship between brain weight and body size provide us with sensible criteria for comparing the intelligence of different species.

Are you saying you have really never heard of the ratio of brain weight to body weight as a consistent measure of intelligence?

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

the brain size can be elevated vs body weight by the animals needs more brain to deal with specifics in its environment. A mouse has better eyesight and sense of smell thus those areas of the brain are enlarged. they have little frontal lobes unlike humans where the frontal lobes are enormous.

Even a mouse is smart enough to run away.

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

The brain of the sperm whale weighs 7,800g, the elephant's weighs 7,500g, man's weighs 1,500g, the dolphin's 840g, and the brain of a mouse weighs 0,4g. If these figures are used to determine intelligence, then the sperm whale and the elephant are five times as intelligent as man, who in turn is twice as intelligent as the dolphin, which in turn is 2,000 times as intelligent as a mouse. Should we rank animals in order of how large their brains are in relation to their body weight, then the mouse would come out on top with its brain comprising 3.2%, the dolphin's 0.9% and the sperm whale's 0,021%. Neither absolute brain weight nor the relationship between brain weight and body size provide us with sensible criteria for comparing the intelligence of different species.

Are you saying you have really never heard of the ratio of brain weight to body weight as a consistent measure of intelligence?

OK, so a mouse is smarter than you...I guess I won't argue.
% brain of total body weight (150 pound human) = 2%
mouse with its brain comprising 3.2%

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

The brain of the sperm whale weighs 7,800g, the elephant's weighs 7,500g, man's weighs 1,500g, the dolphin's 840g, and the brain of a mouse weighs 0,4g. If these figures are used to determine intelligence, then the sperm whale and the elephant are five times as intelligent as man, who in turn is twice as intelligent as the dolphin, which in turn is 2,000 times as intelligent as a mouse. Should we rank animals in order of how large their brains are in relation to their body weight, then the mouse would come out on top with its brain comprising 3.2%, the dolphin's 0.9% and the sperm whale's 0,021%. Neither absolute brain weight nor the relationship between brain weight and body size provide us with sensible criteria for comparing the intelligence of different species.

Are you saying you have really never heard of the ratio of brain weight to body weight as a consistent measure of intelligence?

OK, so a mouse is smarter than you...I guess I won't argue.
% brain of total body weight (150 pound human) = 2%
mouse with its brain comprising 3.2%

You could in fact research the matter before posting something like that. Trust me. It will not hurt you to learn something new.

Of course the issue here is the invented emotional attachment to trees, whales and other currently popular causes. Does your woman read your posts and you have to post things like this to get laid?

I assume the Sea World incident a couple weeks ago did make the world news -- Killer Whale kills Trainer. Given the name for that type of whale one does not see why the story was newsworthy.

I remind you of my response to the odd assertion of humans as mass murderers of whales, none of your friends are krill. Some whales are mass murderers of krill. Some whales are mass murderers of plankton. Killer whales are normally mass murderers of seals even of baby seals. Club 'em or chomp 'em. What's the difference?

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Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

The brain of the sperm whale weighs 7,800g, the elephant's weighs 7,500g, man's weighs 1,500g, the dolphin's 840g, and the brain of a mouse weighs 0,4g. If these figures are used to determine intelligence, then the sperm whale and the elephant are five times as intelligent as man, who in turn is twice as intelligent as the dolphin, which in turn is 2,000 times as intelligent as a mouse. Should we rank animals in order of how large their brains are in relation to their body weight, then the mouse would come out on top with its brain comprising 3.2%, the dolphin's 0.9% and the sperm whale's 0,021%. Neither absolute brain weight nor the relationship between brain weight and body size provide us with sensible criteria for comparing the intelligence of different species.

Are you saying you have really never heard of the ratio of brain weight to body weight as a consistent measure of intelligence?

OK, so a mouse is smarter than you...I guess I won't argue.
% brain of total body weight (150 pound human) = 2%
mouse with its brain comprising 3.2%

You could in fact research the matter before posting something like that. Trust me. It will not hurt you to learn something new.

Of course the issue here is the invented emotional attachment to trees, whales and other currently popular causes. Does your woman read your posts and you have to post things like this to get laid?

I assume the Sea World incident a couple weeks ago did make the world news -- Killer Whale kills Trainer. Given the name for that type of whale one does not see why the story was newsworthy.

I remind you of my response to the odd assertion of humans as mass murderers of whales, none of your friends are krill. Some whales are mass murderers of krill. Some whales are mass murderers of plankton. Killer whales are normally mass murderers of seals even of baby seals. Club 'em or chomp 'em. What's the difference?

You just love arguing don't you! Kill a whale, kill a cat, kill a dog. Go on, next time you see an animal, kill it. But you won't because you know it is WRONG.

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- Luke.