The Day The World Failed


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Luke
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Message 957359 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 8:31:21 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2009, 20:59:57 UTC

Another failure... Another reason why these 193 leaders are useless... Another conference that produced nothing... you have doomed the planet for all meaningful people in the world.

All of these leaders should be thrown out of their seats and shunned/locked away for good. Barack Obama, Gordon Brown, Kevin Rudd, John Key. Every single one of them is useless. I don't care if you like them or not, whether you voted for them or not, whether they shook your hand or not.
These so called "glorious leaders" couldn't save themselves, let alone our countries.

Every leader seems to be too interested in spending money on defense (that's you Barack & Bush for that matter - get off your pedestals built on stratofortresses). Or worrying whether 80 bucks for a barrel of oil is enough. Or building new 20 lane highways, or constructing huge new useless buildings that look like surgical needles, or building pathetic memorials, or building stupid man-made islands in the sea that will be gone in 20 years.

If you think global warming is non-existent/a conspiracy, I don't even want to know you. I don't care if you think it's fake.

That was our last chance to save the world. And all of them failed. No one could possibly describe how pissed off and sad I am.

We have bigger problems in the world than worrying about where your going for your next vacation or whether I should red-x that post, or should I buy a Nehalem or wait for Westmere.

All 193 of them should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

We need a revolution. Anyone here ever read the Mars Trilogy? Everyone should rebel. I'm sick of the way the world works. I am sick of it. And I feel sorry for the rest of you that are on my side...

Here's one prediction that I'll bet NZ$1000 on (I'm not joking here, if anybody wants to take me up on this, you can) a sea level rise of 20cm by 2030. Each time the UN climate change panel meets, the results are faster than what they predicted. Step up and challenge me someone.

COP HOPE has become a COP OUT.
We have screwed our last chance. There is no more.

The world will die.
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Message 957393 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 13:57:03 UTC - in response to Message 957359.

I'd like to think that they'd be forced to sit until they got something written in stone. The idea that they'd have a solid deal in 2 weeks is stupid. Heck the US congress cant get a simple bill passed in 2 weeks. How could we think world leaders and negotiator could make this happen
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Message 957396 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 14:49:47 UTC - in response to Message 957359.

Soylent Green is a 1973 science fiction movie depicting a dystopian future in which overpopulation leads to depleted resources, which in turn leads to widespread unemployment and poverty. Real fruit, vegetables and meat are rare and expensive commodities. Much of the population survives on processed food rations, including "soylent green" wafers made from recycled dead humans.

Was the writer a futurist or a quack?

About that bet Luke - I'm out. I can't afford to lose $1,000.

Niko

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Message 957408 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 16:06:36 UTC
Last modified: 19 Dec 2009, 16:16:26 UTC

Read this:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/usa_weather_records_120609-121309.png

304 Low temp records and only 36 high temp records.

Sounds like cooling to me.

This, of course, will be translated by James “The Weather Clown” Hansen into the second or third warmest since the year 1. And he will have a graph to prove it. Just like last January that set 3,000 cold records became the warmest in history.
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Message 957425 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 18:24:23 UTC - in response to Message 957359.

My opinion on this subject has been public since the BBS days and is now online at http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml The Anti-
Evironmentalist's Handbook. Even though this is 20 years old (and sorely in need of both a good editing and completion and deletion of the rah-rah flag waving opening) I would not change a word of it. All of the problems with the warming claim back then are still problems today. Not a single one has been addressed. The computer programs have gotten fancier but not a single one of them has been verified nor can any model be verified without comparing it to real world events.

When I was a lad -- and I can say that now -- the causes of the weather getting colder were atom bomb tests and sonic booms. Yes, it was getting colder which resulted in The Coming Ice Age as the currently popular apocalypse of choice. And, yes, it was taken seriously by scientists not just a few cranks.

I think the most telling point is 20 years ago we were solemnly scared with the scientific truth that if we did not to something in ten years, the world was doomed, nothing could stop the run away greenhouse effect. That means by 1990 it was too late. Lo and behold that is not true. In 1990 we had only ten years to do something. So next year it is too late. Lo and behold 2.0 we still have ten years before we are doomed.

That ain't science. That is scaremongering.

But if you believe in melting then there is no need to do anything. Buy an SUV leave your lights on, eat drink and be merry because there is nothing we can do. It was all over in 1990.

If you do not like that idea, they were clearly wrong/lying in 1979 and 1980 and in every subsequent year down to today. What person in his right mind listens to chicken littles who are always wrong? Why does anyone take them seriously?

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Message 957434 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 19:59:26 UTC - in response to Message 957408.
Last modified: 19 Dec 2009, 20:00:03 UTC

Read this:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/usa_weather_records_120609-121309.png

304 Low temp records and only 36 high temp records.

Sounds like cooling to me.

This, of course, will be translated by James “The Weather Clown” Hansen into the second or third warmest since the year 1. And he will have a graph to prove it. Just like last January that set 3,000 cold records became the warmest in history.


What?! You believe you can justify global warming is not happening of 8 days worth of data?!
And you can't call it global cooling either, because the last time I checked, America was not all of the world... merely a small slice.

It seems there are still people out there who cannot be convinced that what we have said all along is happening.
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Message 957435 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 20:01:17 UTC - in response to Message 957396.

Soylent Green is a 1973 science fiction movie depicting a dystopian future in which overpopulation leads to depleted resources, which in turn leads to widespread unemployment and poverty. Real fruit, vegetables and meat are rare and expensive commodities. Much of the population survives on processed food rations, including "soylent green" wafers made from recycled dead humans.

Was the writer a futurist or a quack?

About that bet Luke - I'm out. I can't afford to lose $1,000.

Niko


Looks like he is going to be spot on... I'll look into renting this movie you speak of. Thanks Niko...
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Message 957443 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 21:25:46 UTC
Last modified: 19 Dec 2009, 21:26:13 UTC

I believe the best indication of global warming is the way the leaders of the countries surrounding the arctic circle are all suddenly, in the last 5 years, laying claim to shipping routes.
These passages through the north have been melting and opening up steadily.

While my own Prime Minister is one of those politicians that says we don't need to take action on warming, he's making great photo opportunities for himself everytime he goes to the arctic circle with another announcement about Canadian sovereignty, increased naval presences and new icebreakers.

People in the underdeveloped countries have a legitimate grievance against the actions of the industrialized countries at the Climate Conference.
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Message 957444 - Posted: 19 Dec 2009, 21:29:16 UTC - in response to Message 957435.

Soylent Green is a 1973 science fiction movie depicting a dystopian future in which overpopulation leads to depleted resources, which in turn leads to widespread unemployment and poverty. Real fruit, vegetables and meat are rare and expensive commodities. Much of the population survives on processed food rations, including "soylent green" wafers made from recycled dead humans.

Was the writer a futurist or a quack?

About that bet Luke - I'm out. I can't afford to lose $1,000.

Niko


Looks like he is going to be spot on... I'll look into renting this movie you speak of. Thanks Niko...


This movie seemed so far out when I first saw it.
It has become a chilling (no pun intended) prediction of a future we don't want to see come true.

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Message 957469 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 1:31:38 UTC - in response to Message 957443.

I believe the best indication of global warming is the way the leaders of the countries surrounding the arctic circle are all suddenly, in the last 5 years, laying claim to shipping routes.
These passages through the north have been melting and opening up steadily.


One of the most interesting questions of ancient history is how Hannibal got elephants over the Alps. There are zero ice free passes today. Recent melting of the Alpine glaciers have shed light on this. As they retreat they uncover the remains of houses and barns. At some time in the historical past the glaciers were much smaller than they are today and it is safe to assume life on earth did not end in that warming period.

As to the elephants, it is reasonable to say there were ice free passages in the days of the Punic wars. It is also reasonable to say life on earth did not end during the Punic wars.

While my own Prime Minister is one of those politicians that says we don't need to take action on warming, he's making great photo opportunities for himself everytime he goes to the arctic circle with another announcement about Canadian sovereignty, increased naval presences and new icebreakers.

People in the underdeveloped countries have a legitimate grievance against the actions of the industrialized countries at the Climate Conference.


In all the models, silly as they are, it is predicted the least change will occur near the equator. Most of the underdeveloped countries are near the equator. They have no gripe.

It is the developed countries that are threatened with Siberia becoming the breadbasket of the world. It is Canada which is threatened with doubling or tripling is arable lands.

It is unclear how the world will respond to the coming glut of food so cheap it is uneconomical to ship it very far.

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Message 957472 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 2:00:01 UTC - in response to Message 957408.

Read this:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/usa_weather_records_120609-121309.png

304 Low temp records and only 36 high temp records.

Sounds like cooling to me.

This, of course, will be translated by James “The Weather Clown” Hansen into the second or third warmest since the year 1. And he will have a graph to prove it. Just like last January that set 3,000 cold records became the warmest in history.

Ok so you don't get average temps. SO lets take Oh I don't know 300+ data collection points. Say half of them have a record low temp 2X in one year but the average temp over all the data points is still 2 degrees higher than they were 10, 20, 30, and now 40 years ago. this is what statisticians call a trend. Our lives become mopre compilicated the more we add CO2 to the atmosphere. ****the following is actual science**** Humans require Oxygen to breath. Humans tend to function poorly in high CO2 environments. Environments similar to a running car in a closed garage. If you won't help save yourself then others are going to be force to do it. So instead of being a foot and knuckle dragger just accept the science and move on. Hell go to CPDN@home and bring this crap up. They will have an internet smackdown session on you. Heck their project already has enough models to show we are screwed. DO you want to make it worse? Please tell me why some Americans needs to be hanging off of a cliff before they are willing to look for help. Lets not get any nearer then cliffs edge and get our stuff together

Individual daily records may sound outstanding but when you are collecting data from hundreds if not thousands of points across the globe, these records seem paultry to the overwhelming physical evidence.
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Message 957475 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 2:16:42 UTC - in response to Message 957472.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009, 2:17:09 UTC

Read this:

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/usa_weather_records_120609-121309.png

304 Low temp records and only 36 high temp records.

Sounds like cooling to me.

This, of course, will be translated by James “The Weather Clown” Hansen into the second or third warmest since the year 1. And he will have a graph to prove it. Just like last January that set 3,000 cold records became the warmest in history.

Ok so you don't get average temps. SO lets take Oh I don't know 300+ data collection points. Say half of them have a record low temp 2X in one year but the average temp over all the data points is still 2 degrees higher than they were 10, 20, 30, and now 40 years ago. this is what statisticians call a trend. Our lives become mopre compilicated the more we add CO2 to the atmosphere. ****the following is actual science**** Humans require Oxygen to breath. Humans tend to function poorly in high CO2 environments. Environments similar to a running car in a closed garage. If you won't help save yourself then others are going to be force to do it. So instead of being a foot and knuckle dragger just accept the science and move on. Hell go to CPDN@home and bring this crap up. They will have an internet smackdown session on you. Heck their project already has enough models to show we are screwed. DO you want to make it worse? Please tell me why some Americans needs to be hanging off of a cliff before they are willing to look for help. Lets not get any nearer then cliffs edge and get our stuff together

Individual daily records may sound outstanding but when you are collecting data from hundreds if not thousands of points across the globe, these records seem paultry to the overwhelming physical evidence.


Way to say it skildude...
At least someone here shares my viewpoint.
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Message 957481 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 3:04:14 UTC - in response to Message 957472.

Hell go to CPDN@home and bring this crap up. They will have an internet smackdown session on you. Heck their project already has enough models to show we are screwed.

http://jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-196
Chahine said previous AIRS research data have led to some key findings about mid-tropospheric carbon dioxide. For example, the data have shown that, contrary to prior assumptions, carbon dioxide is not well mixed in the troposphere, but is rather "lumpy." Until now, models of carbon dioxide transport have assumed its distribution was uniform.

Garbage In, Garbage Out!

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Message 957485 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 3:29:21 UTC

An interesting article on ocean leavels now and the past....

New Jersey Geological Survey
Information Circular


Global Warming
How long before State of New Jersey is under sea level

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Message 957506 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 8:29:20 UTC

Ahoy, shipmates!

Certainly the Copenhagen climate summit was a disappointment, but the political and diplomatical process must continue.

I can see one very remarkable positive result also. The present accord ”recognises the need to limit global temperatures rising no more than 2C above pre-industrial levels”, ref. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8422133.stm. Whatever the reasons of various parties to oppose anything more at this stage, I at least didn’t notice any responsible political leader to deny the basic facts.

Regards

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Message 957515 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 10:49:08 UTC

Since noone answered to my comment within the older climate thread, yet, I copy the text here. You may delete it from there if you don't like posting the same thing twice, but since you are probably as p***ed as I am, you may keep it.

Failure in Copenhagen
Gunning Full Throttle into the Greenhouse


Found this via
http://tcktcktck.org/

Interesting, didn't realize that "Der Spiegel" has an English section, yet. It may give you a small idea of how the actions of the US government look from the outside. The USA wants to be the moral authority of the world but if it comes to action, I cannot see anything of that (look for example at how "much" money they want to spent to help poor countries encounter the climate change). I don't blame you in particular for that, but the public opinion has clearly has an effect.

Like said in an episode of "The Simpsons" (note that it was written by an American): "... and exactly like the America's credibility in foreign countries, the ball is now GONE!" (commentary to a baseball match)

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Message 957534 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 14:20:53 UTC

NOAA: Summer Temperature Below Average for U.S.
September 10, 2009

The average June-August 2009 summer temperature for the contiguous United States was below average – the 34th coolest on record, according to a preliminary analysis by NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, N.C. August was also below the long-term average. The analysis is based on records dating back to 1895.

U.S. Temperature Highlights – Summer



(Credit: NOAA)
For the 2009 summer, the average temperature of 71.7 degrees F was 0.4 degree F below the 20th Century average. The 2008 average summer temperature was 72.7 degrees F.
A recurring upper level trough held the June-August temperatures down in the central states, where Michigan experienced its fifth, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and South Dakota their seventh, Nebraska its eighth, and Iowa its ninth coolest summer. By contrast, Florida had its fourth warmest summer, while Washington and Texas experienced their eighth and ninth warmest, respectively.
The Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa and Minnesota region experienced its sixth coolest summer on record. Only the Northwest averaged above normal temperatures.
U.S. Temperature Highlights – August



(Credit: NOAA)
The average 2009 August temperature of 72.2 degrees F was 0.6 degree F below the 20th Century average. Last year’s August temperature was 73.2 degrees F.
Temperatures were below normal in the Midwest, Plains, and parts of the south. Above-normal temperatures dominated the eastern seaboard, areas in the southwest, and in the extreme northwest.
Several northeastern states were much above normal for August, including Delaware and New Jersey (eighth warmest), Maine (ninth), and Rhode Island and Connecticut (10th). In contrast, below-normal temperatures were recorded for Missouri and Kansas.
U.S. Precipitation Highlights – Summer



(Credit: NOAA)
The Northeast region had its eighth wettest June-August summer on record. By contrast, the South, Southeast and Southwest regions, were drier than average. Arizona had its third driest summer, while both South Carolina and Georgia had their sixth driest.
U.S. Precipitation Highlights – August
In August, precipitation across the contiguous United States averaged 2.34 inches, which is 0.26 inch below the 1901-2000 average.
Above-normal averages were generally recorded across the northern U.S., west of the Great Lakes. The South and Southeast regions experienced below-normal precipitation.
Precipitation across the Southwest region averaged 0.85 inches, which is 1.10 inches below normal and ranks as the 4th driest August on record. Arizona had its fourth driest, New Mexico its fifth, and it was the eighth driest August on record for Colorado, Utah and Texas.


(Credit: NOAA)
By the end of August, moderate-to-exceptional drought covered 14 percent of the contiguous United States, based on the U.S. Drought Monitor. Drought intensified in parts of the Pacific Northwest and new drought areas emerged in Arizona and the Carolinas. Montana, Wisconsin and Oklahoma saw minor improvements in their drought conditions.
About 27 percent of the contiguous United States had moderately-to-extremely wet conditions at the end of August, according to the Palmer Index (a well-known index that measures both drought intensity and wet spell intensity).
Other Highlights
There were more than 300 low temperature records (counting daily highs and lows) set across states in the Midwest during the last two days of August.
A total of 7,975 fires burned 1,646,363 acres in August, according to the National Interagency Coordination Center. August 2009 ranked fifth for the number of fires and sixth for acres burned in August this decade. From January through August, 64,682 fires have burned 5.2 million acres across the nation.
NCDC’s preliminary reports, which assess the current state of the climate, are released soon after the end of each month. These analyses are based on preliminary data, which are subject to revision. Additional quality control is applied to the data when late reports are received several weeks after the end of the month and as increased scientific methods improve NCDC’s processing algorithms.

NOAA understands and predicts changes in the Earth's environment, from the depths of the ocean to the surface of the sun, and conserves and manages our coastal and marine resources.
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Message 957546 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 15:22:18 UTC - in response to Message 957534.

yes it looks like this summer was an anomaly. also note the dry weather. This may have been due to el nino which makes weather patterns change drastically if only for several months. In Texas we've had one of the wettest autumns on record.

SO what NOAA is noticing is a slight drop in an overall trend upward. This is to be expected since weather isnt a static thing.

To put it seti science. IF we start up our i7 with hyper threading then added a 200mhz every year you'd notice that the RAC will vary from day to day but will look smooth in the long run. until you add the additional cpu power. Now that number will of course fluctuate because of down time etc. but the overall numbers will continue to increase.
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Message 957561 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 16:19:52 UTC

It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

"Antarctica has 90 per cent of the Earth's ice and 80 per cent of its fresh water. Extensive melting of Antarctic ice sheets would be required to raise sea levels substantially, and ice is melting in parts of west Antarctica. The destabilisation of the Wilkins ice shelf generated international headlines this month.

However, the picture is very different in east Antarctica, which includes the territory claimed by Australia.

East Antarctica is four times the size of west Antarctica and parts of it are cooling. The Scientific Committee on Antarctic Research report prepared for last week's meeting of Antarctic Treaty nations in Washington noted the South Pole had shown "significant cooling in recent decades".

Australian Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

"Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally," Dr Allison said"
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Message 957564 - Posted: 20 Dec 2009, 16:32:46 UTC - in response to Message 957561.
Last modified: 20 Dec 2009, 16:41:14 UTC


It just depends on what you search for as to what people say is happening...
Put "icesheet growing" into google and a bunch come up.

Antarctic Ice Sheet GROWING!

...


Hiamps - my Dad used to say "You can't buy the truth for 10 cents" - yeah, newspapers used to be 10 cents and the paper boxes had no locking doors on them!

I wonder how much of this stuff is based on science and how much is based on emotion and the human NEED for blogging and to be heard. Just look at some of the crap on You Tube - people will break the law, lie and do anything to be noticed.

Ever wonder why there are no UFO sightings anymore? Well, we've put up a ton of satellites and have covered the planet with CCD cameras? It's getting a lot harder to lie about them.

Humans can't agree on Religion, Politics, Diet, Relationships, Borders, Science, etc. Hell, there are people here that are crunching but feel S@H is bogus and a waste of time!

Of course, I am talking about BOTH sides of the argument coin - for and against...

And that is my 10 cents worth :-)

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