Planes or Volcano?


All we need are a few more volcanoes to ground all air transport and we're at least one step nearer to holding off meltdown until we can get our act together...

Stupid or not stupid?

Regards,
Martin

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I think the volcanoes will help a great deal. They alone can drop local temps down several degrees and worldwide a fraction.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I think the volcanoes will help a great deal. They alone can drop local temps down several degrees and worldwide a fraction.

Really? Got any data for that?

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I hope thats sarcasm. It's part of recent history. Large volcanic eruptions release gases and particulate matter into the upper atmosphere which blocks sunlight. I recall Mount saint Helens and Mount Pinatubo(sp) both lowered local temperatures and in the weeks that followed prevailing winds spread the material fairly evenly over a wide swatch of latitude around the world.

History shows that when Krakatoa erupted it cooled world significantly.

from wikipedia article on the little Ice age

Volcanic activity
Throughout the Little Ice Age, the world also experienced heightened volcanic activity.[52] When a volcano erupts, its ash reaches high into the atmosphere and can spread to cover the whole Earth. This ash cloud blocks out some of the incoming solar radiation, leading to worldwide cooling that can last up to two years after an eruption. Also emitted by eruptions is sulfur in the form of SO2 gas. When this gas reaches the stratosphere, it turns into sulfuric acid particles, which reflect the sun's rays, further reducing the amount of radiation reaching Earth's surface. The 1815 eruption of Tambora in Indonesia blanketed the atmosphere with ash; the following year, 1816, came to be known as the Year Without a Summer, when frost and snow were reported in June and July in both New England and Northern Europe. Other volcanoes that erupted during the era and may have contributed to the cooling include Billy Mitchell (ca. 1580 ± 20 ), Mount Parker (1641), Long Island (Papua New Guinea) (ca. 1660), and Huaynaputina (1600).[10]

So an increase in Volcanic activity could easily slow down global warming temporarily

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

I think the volcanoes will help a great deal. They alone can drop local temps down several degrees and worldwide a fraction.

Really? Got any data for that?

As always, there are multiple effects, but this gives a good overview:

Measuring Volcanic Gases

... The [volcanic] aerosols increase the reflection of radiation from the Sun back into space and thus cool the Earth's lower atmosphere or troposphere; however, they also absorb heat radiated up from the Earth, thereby warming the stratosphere.

... during the first five months after the Mount Pinatubo eruption, the optical depth of the stratospheric aerosol increased up to 100 times in certain locations. ... the increased optical depth means that considerably less of the sun's energy can get through the cloud to warm the Earth's surface.


So less cooling at night but you also get (more significantly) less warming during the day...


Regards,
Martin

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@skildude, no sarcasm. I'm well aware of the historical record. Just wondering how that fits in with climate change.

So it appears as if the large amount of CO2 belched by a volcano is overwhelmed by the other gasses and the ash at least in the short term. Don't see any data on the amount of gas released though. Also anyone have data on long term effects?

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large volcanic eruptions can alter the temperature for several years according the what I've read

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

This article briefly summarises the volcanoes vs Man's efforts:

Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans?

The difference is clearly significant.


Aside: It should prove interesting what research comes out of the Europe-wide aircraft grounding for the week. There's a good batch of photos of clear blue skies with (unusually) no aircraft contrails...

Regards,
Martin

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This article briefly summarises the volcanoes vs Man's efforts:

Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans?

The difference is clearly significant.


Aside: It should prove interesting what research comes out of the Europe-wide aircraft grounding for the week. There's a good batch of photos of clear blue skies with (unusually) no aircraft contrails...

Regards,
Martin

Ah, 1% of human activity.


Interesting, wonder why they tried to pick that plot. After all Mauna Loa is an active volcano so I'm not so sure I take a plot of CO2 there as representative of planet wide levels. I mean consider Mammoth Mountain. Is someone fudging or just being sloppy?

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This is moving off the stupid vs not-stupid thread so last response here. Further discussion welcomed on a new climate change thread:

Climate Change Answers

This article briefly summarises the volcanoes vs Man's efforts:

Do volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans?

The difference is clearly significant.

Ah, 1% of human activity.

Yep. We outgun all the combined might of the Earth's volcanoes on land and including under the sea by 100:1!

Mauna Loa CO2 plot
Interesting, wonder why they tried to pick that plot. After all Mauna Loa is an active volcano so I'm not so sure I take a plot of CO2 there as representative of planet wide levels. I mean consider Mammoth Mountain. Is someone fudging or just being sloppy?

Try looking a little further to back up your claim/question?

See: How reliable are CO2 measurements?

Mauna Loa is often used as an example of rising carbon dioxide levels because its the longest, continuous series of directly measured atmospheric CO2. The reason why it's acceptable to use Mauna Loa as a proxy for global CO2 levels is because CO2 mixes well throughout the atmosphere. Consequently, the trend in Mauna Loa CO2 (1.64 ppm per year) is statistically indistinguishable from the trend in global CO2 levels (1.66 ppm per year).

Follow ups on Climate Change Answers please.


Regards,
Martin

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Our local PBS station recently showed The Age Of Stupid;
and because of this thread I recorded it,
and we watched it--
thanx...

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Our local PBS station recently showed The Age Of Stupid;
and because of this thread I recorded it,
and we watched it--
thanx...

Thanks for that.

It's also doing another round of the UK at the moment.


Hopefully it will stir some positive interest and action...

Hopefully, a "Not Stupid"!

Regards,
Martin

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After over a decade!


Cape Wind to become America's first offshore windfarm

Green light for 130-turbine project in Nantucket Sound overcomes nearly a decade of resistance from the Kennedy clan and local environmental opposition

... The Cape Wind project will comprise 130 turbines that are expected to generate 75% of the electricity for Cape Cod and nearby islands like Martha's Vineyard. It could trigger a major expansion in America's use of wind power, which currently generates only 2% of supply.

... The solid bloc of opposition from the Kennedys - even from the environmentalist Robert Kennedy Jr - made Cape Wind a tricky project for Democrats. Even John Kerry, the Massachusetts senator, leading the push for climate and energy legislation in the Senate, hesitated to come out for the project. The Koch family, the reclusive owners of a private oil company who have homes in the area, also funded a lobbying campaign against the project.

However, Mark Rodgers, a spokesman for Cape Wind, said that after facing down 11 previous court challenges, the developers were now confident of finally going ahead. ...



Quite a contest for that one...

Stupid or not stupid?...

Regards,
Martin

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Some good ideas for any and all car commuters:

Save £800 a year on petrol

... Patrick Collinson gave it a go and found that a driver doing 15,000 miles a year at an average 119.9p a litre could save a fortune


Another possibility if possible is to work remotely from home or from a local internet centre... That's certainly saved me many wasted gallons of fuel and many wasted hours on the road!

Hopefully, a "Not Stupid".

Regards,
Martin

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We've had the Stone Age, the Bronze Age, the Iron Age, and the Industrial Revolution.

Now we have:

The Age of STUPID

At a cinema near you. And all around you at present! ...

Now, available for free for 48 hours for the UK elections by Ed Milliband:

We've made Age of Stupid available for free online (UK only) for 48 hours from Weds 5 May to the close of polling stations on Thurs 6th May


Rather an interesting idea!


It's your world!

Regards,
Martin

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And now, sneaking into fuel supplies around the world:

Tar sands crude is reaching British petrol stations, Greenpeace says

Greenpeace seeks tougher rules against imports of 'dirty oil'
BP is upgrading refineries to process oil from tar sands

... The environmental group is calling for action by the European commission to strengthen fuel-quality directive regulations to restrict the import of petroleum products made in a carbon-intensive way.

The move comes as the tar sands producers appear to be trying to use the BP oil rig disaster in the Gulf of Mexico as a public relations tool to promote their industry over [that of] deepwater drilling.


WHAT!? The oil marketing is so crass as to try to market one disaster over that of another disaster!!!

What planet are they on?!

STUPID? Or not stupid?...

Phew!
Martin

For anyone that might not have noticed, there's the blockbuster film Avatar in the cinemas around some of the world at the moment.

One aspect of the story is the portrayal of how part of that planet is uncompromisingly being destroyed by open cast mining for the sake of exploiting a valuable mineral... There's a good parallel to what is happening in Canada for the ever more vast and destructive exploitation of the Canadian oil sands...

I wonder how many of the audience might notice?

My mini-review on Avatar on another thread.

The Canadian Oil Sands:


One small section of mining. It was a forest there...



Map of open cast mining: EnergyInisights Map showing main Oil Sands area in red, with Fort McMurray in green


National Geographic: The Canadian Oil Boom


Grenpeace: Stop the tar sands


Stupid?

Regards,
Martin

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Looks like at least some of the political hot air rolls onwards... Hopefully to some tangible effect:


Europe to examine case for bigger CO2 cuts

Europe's climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard is to set out the case for a unilateral 30% EU cut in CO2.

At the end of May she will unveil research examining the consequences to Europe's economy of outdoing the current 20% target.

She said no position had been taken by Europe on a new unilateral target.

But she warned the fall in CO2 during the recession meant a 20% cut would not drive the clean energy innovation Europe needed.

She said China was investing almost 10 times as much as the EU in plans for a low-carbon economy. ...


US senators Kerry and Lieberman to unveil climate bill

The details of a long-awaited US bill on climate change are to be made public later, but analysts are warning it faces a tough battle to be made law.

The bill, backed by Senators John Kerry and Joe Lieberman, will propose cutting US carbon emissions by 17% by 2020.

But it is also expected to propose easing restrictions on offshore oil drilling - likely to face opposition after the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.

Legislation on climate is a key part of US President Barack Obama's agenda.

But the bill has been repeatedly delayed amid Republican opposition. ...



Note that in this 'game', China is now starting to move for the sake of all forms of pollution threatening their country, but especially for the threat of having the most to lose from climate change...


Stupid or not stupid?...

Regards,
Martin

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And here is quite a turn-around. Long proposed major expansion of a congested London airport and the huge knock-on expansion of mainly road traffic in that area have been scrapped:

Campaigners hail scrapping of third runway

... They came bearing two boxes containing a legal Deed of Trust featuring the names of more than 90,000 people who jointly own a plot of land at the centre of the proposed runway development.

One of the names on the deed is that of Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader.

The new coalition government confirmed the decision to abandon the expansion of the London airport.

Speaking in Downing Street, Greenpeace campaigner Ben Stewart said: "We're thanking David Cameron and Nick Clegg for cancelling the runway.

"We were going to come here to ask them to cancel it but we're now here presenting these legal deeds to thank them." ...


People power, politics, or economic climate?

Being as the now Prime Ministers had signed up to the campaign to stop the expansion, they could hardly go along with it once in power!

Regardless, rather impressive. (And yes, I'm one of the beneficial owners of a certain crucial 1 acre plot of land...)


Stupid or Not Stupid?

Regards,
Martin

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This one is quite a conflict of 'Green' vs Technology vs Market Forces vs Politics...


Wind power growth in China's deserts ignored financial risks

Vast wind farms have sprung up in the Gobi Desert. But in the bid to hit renewable targets, financial risks have been ignored...


Stupid or Not Stupid?

Or just early days and misguided?

Regards,
Martin

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Here is something to think about, when people complain about how our actions are hurting our planet they get up a petition to complain or object to the incident what ever it may be.
Now... all those petitions get put on paper and guess what... it comes from trees people... you are hurting the enviroment stop it.

How stupid is that?