Teenager shot--shooter charged


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Profile Blurf
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Message 882766 - Posted: 6 Apr 2009, 16:17:39 UTC

This is sad...

http://democratandchronicle.com/article/20090406/NEWS01/904060339&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL

A 17-year old kid was shot and killed Saturday.

He lives near my sister-in-law.

The shooting in Hilton is a tragedy but a lot of thefts and vandalism in the area have been allegedly linked to the children of the family involved. Word has it he was shot while the kids were trying to break into a car. Shooter has been charged with 2nd degree murder. I'm not saying he shouldn't be mourned-not at all- but let's take a realistic look at the family situation and how a lack of proper parenting could have played a role in this tragedy
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Message 882977 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 2:48:04 UTC

When did breaking into a car become worthy of capital punishment?

Of course the shooter has been charged, rightly so.

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Message 882999 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 5:22:21 UTC - in response to Message 882977.

When did breaking into a car become worthy of capital punishment?

Of course the shooter has been charged, rightly so.

It didn't happen in Texas.

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Message 883015 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 9:48:50 UTC - in response to Message 882977.

When did breaking into a car become worthy of capital punishment?

Of course the shooter has been charged, rightly so.


From the article:
Cervini was not armed but Scott told police that at least one of the teens charged at him before he fired the weapon.


That makes it self-defense.

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Message 883120 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 16:21:57 UTC

the problem is people don´t respect others property, gung ho attidude which people think it´s great and stupid gun laws that allows people have weapons
which has nothing other purpose than kill human being, and the fact that you can have them even if you are nutcase.

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Message 883134 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 21:12:56 UTC - in response to Message 883015.

From the article:

Cervini was not armed but Scott told police that at least one of the teens charged at him before he fired the weapon.


That makes it self-defense.


That isn't an automatic self-defense incident. Rules of engagement for deadly force vary on several factors. If the kid charged at him while obviously unarmed, for instance...

@Blurf, it is indeed very sad. Thank you for sharing this.
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Message 883144 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 21:36:06 UTC - in response to Message 883120.

the problem is people don´t respect others property, gung ho attidude which people think it´s great and stupid gun laws that allows people have weapons
which has nothing other purpose than kill human being, and the fact that you can have them even if you are nutcase.

Define nutcase.

It isn't as easy as it seems, until after the fact. Since we look for ET I suppose all of us are nutcases to someone.
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Message 883146 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 21:40:10 UTC - in response to Message 883134.

From the article:

Cervini was not armed but Scott told police that at least one of the teens charged at him before he fired the weapon.


That makes it self-defense.


That isn't an automatic self-defense incident. Rules of engagement for deadly force vary on several factors. If the kid charged at him while obviously unarmed, for instance...

That depends on how it is described. Charging is one thing, charging to grab the gun is another.


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Message 883175 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 23:05:38 UTC - in response to Message 883146.

From the article:

Cervini was not armed but Scott told police that at least one of the teens charged at him before he fired the weapon.


That makes it self-defense.


That isn't an automatic self-defense incident. Rules of engagement for deadly force vary on several factors. If the kid charged at him while obviously unarmed, for instance...

That depends on how it is described. Charging is one thing, charging to grab the gun is another.


It can also depend on what the person doing the charging is holding. A screwdriver can be a deadly weapon of stabbed with enough force into the right location. Unarmed probably means that the person was not holding a knife or a gun, it does not always mean that they were holding nothing.

It can also depend on the physical stature of the individuals - a teenager vs an eldery person for example. Or on numbers three or four against one for example.

I would have to hear all of the testimony as to what happened in this case before making up my mind.
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Message 883178 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 23:12:35 UTC

New article posted:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090407/NEWS01/904070314/1003

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Message 883186 - Posted: 7 Apr 2009, 23:30:28 UTC - in response to Message 883178.

New article posted:

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090407/NEWS01/904070314/1003

That article leaves all possibilities open.
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Message 883282 - Posted: 8 Apr 2009, 3:44:06 UTC - in response to Message 883186.
Last modified: 8 Apr 2009, 3:52:23 UTC

From the article:

According to Parrinello, Scott said he was awakened by noises outside of his home — 58 Baneberry Way — and when he looked out the window, he saw three people in his neighbors' driveway near the neighbors' car. Scott told his girlfriend to call 911 and that he was going downstairs "to contain the situation," Parrinello said.


In the first article Scott is said to have stated that "at least one of the kids charged at him". In this updated article this is said: "Scott lost sight of the two other people and then the third person, later identified as Cervini, "advanced toward him." Parrinello could not describe the type of advance." Scott also says the kid was shot twice because he "kept advancing" after being shot the first time. Just thought these were...umm...interesting details to point out.

Scott took his .40 cal outside with him to confront these kids and "contain the situation" himself while his wife called 911. Instead of waiting for police to handle the situation he intentionally put himself (and others) in danger by doing this.

I'm not saying Scott's initial actions were either right or wrong here (citizen trying to prevent a possible crime from continuing vs. waiting for the police which would give the kids time to take the vehicle and leave, if that was even their intention to begin with). However, IMHO he should have left the policing to the police. After all, it's not like these kids were attempting to rape/murder someone outside of Scott's house and Scott was trying to save the victim--they were merely "in his neighbors' driveway near the neighbors' car..."
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Message 883765 - Posted: 9 Apr 2009, 21:30:47 UTC

New TV article

Quoting:

The other 15-year old told investigators: “Chris walked up and tried a door on the truck on {street name}, but didn't take anything.


So they were trying to break into a vehicle....
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Message 883821 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 1:10:12 UTC - in response to Message 883765.

New TV article

Quoting:

The other 15-year old told investigators: “Chris walked up and tried a door on the truck on {street name}, but didn't take anything.


So they were trying to break into a vehicle....

Not just one either
The two admit they were opening cars in two neighborhoods

and looking for something specific to steal
I was looking for cigarettes

which at their age they aren't permitted to have.

Don't know about the specific laws there, but here, each car door they tried is a separate count of breaking and entering and since they were looking for something add a count of burglary and because there was a group add counts of conspiracy to commit each of those two offenses and toss in a count about a minor and tobacco. It looks like a crime spree was stopped.

However this says nothing about if deadly force was acceptable. It does sound as if the person who shot did give fair warning. Charging him then well could be seen as a serious aggressive action, but we will have to wait and hear all the testimony.


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Message 883836 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 2:23:03 UTC
Last modified: 10 Apr 2009, 2:24:58 UTC

Shooter indicted :(

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20090409/NEWS01/90409009&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL

A guy I work with-his wife is a schoolteacher who taught the kid who was killed. She had him in Special Ed. (not saying Special Education kids are bad at all) and he was constantly a source of frustration for her. Cocky, not-caring attitude....she said it's not a surprise he got into trouble but she had hoped it wouldn't happen so soon
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Message 883860 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 4:15:15 UTC - in response to Message 883836.




A guy I work with-his wife is a schoolteacher who taught the kid who was killed. She had him in Special Ed. (not saying Special Education kids are bad at all) and he was constantly a source of frustration for her. Cocky, not-caring attitude....she said it's not a surprise he got into trouble but she had hoped it wouldn't happen so soon


Good thing he was shot and killed. Sounds like he deserves what he got.
Society can't condone a teenager who's frustrating and cocky with a not-caring attitude.

OOPS... sounds like we've just allowed every teenager in the world to be shot on sight.

How does this differ from the thread lamenting the stoning to death of a woman who was raped?
How does a society condone the killing of a child for an act of stupidity?
Neither situation calls for the eventual outcomes.

Capital punishment is wrong.

No one, not even the state, has the right to take away a person's life.

Anyone who thinks this is some form of justice is bent out of shape far beyond my ability to fix in a forum such as this.

I do find it strange that Americans can get angry at the death of a woman, at the hand of the state, for being raped in a Middle Eastern country but feel it's allright to shoot and kill a kid for breaking into a car.

I can only assume that a couple of CD's and a pack of smokes are more valuable than a life in the United States of America.

Canadian and proud of it.

You guys can keep on shooting each other as much as you want but please stop trying to lay that morality crap on the rest of the world.


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Message 883873 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 5:42:08 UTC

thank you robert, that is how i feel too, i just could not believe that people wrote such posts.

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Message 883910 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 11:50:51 UTC

Thank you as well from me Robert. I was too stunned by the some of the responses to make any myself.

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Message 883973 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 16:30:15 UTC - in response to Message 883860.




A guy I work with-his wife is a schoolteacher who taught the kid who was killed. She had him in Special Ed. (not saying Special Education kids are bad at all) and he was constantly a source of frustration for her. Cocky, not-caring attitude....she said it's not a surprise he got into trouble but she had hoped it wouldn't happen so soon


Good thing he was shot and killed. Sounds like he deserves what he got.
Society can't condone a teenager who's frustrating and cocky with a not-caring attitude.

OOPS... sounds like we've just allowed every teenager in the world to be shot on sight.

How does this differ from the thread lamenting the stoning to death of a woman who was raped?
How does a society condone the killing of a child for an act of stupidity?

Does this include abortions?

Neither situation calls for the eventual outcomes.

Capital punishment is wrong.

No one, not even the state, has the right to take away a person's life.

Anyone who thinks this is some form of justice is bent out of shape far beyond my ability to fix in a forum such as this.

I do find it strange that Americans can get angry at the death of a woman, at the hand of the state, for being raped in a Middle Eastern country but feel it's allright to shoot and kill a kid for breaking into a car.

I can only assume that a couple of CD's and a pack of smokes are more valuable than a life in the United States of America.
NOT TRUE


Canadian and proud of it.

You guys can keep on shooting each other as much as you want but please stop trying to lay that morality crap on the rest of the world.


Please do not judge the US based on the posts of a few. Here it is against the law to shoot someone for breaking into a car. I'm not going to comment on this particular case because I was not there and I have not seen any of the evidence.

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Message 884007 - Posted: 10 Apr 2009, 19:15:15 UTC

Who is at fault here?

A teenage thief?

A scared and/or angry citizen?

The parents of the teen?

At the bottom of it was the quest for a "legalized" "goverment controled" "heavily taxed" drug.

Lessons to be learned:
- If at 3 am in the morning when liberating other peoples property you are confronted with an armed person you probaly should run as fast as you can instead of trying to reason with them.
- Legalization of a drug does not remove "unintended consequences".

Confusion regarding the "American Morality"
- A rape "victim" is a victim. So any punishment of a victim is immoral.
- A criminal in the commision of a crime is not a victim, he instigates the action and therefore assumes any risk that comes from it however catostophic.
(example, if a burglar falls from a building, most Americans don't feel the building owner should have installed safety ladders for burglars.)

Was it the homeowners intent to kill or to scare the teens - did he shoot to kill or only to wound? How can anyone posting here say? We weren't there and no one can see what's in another's mind. They can state with certainty someone got shot - but they can only speculate as to what they would have done themselves. Pro or Con, even Canadians.

I would not recommend breaking into cars in Montreal or Alberta. Even if Robert says it is safe to do so.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/03/27/cgy-farmer-bashwaw-shot-theif.html
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