According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

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According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Actually Gary, Israel is a recognized country.

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According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Actually Gary, Israel is a recognized country.

So is the Vatican. Your point?

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since you aren't reading what you are quoting. I'll do it for you. you mistake Israel for a religion. It is not. Judaism and Islam are the two prevalent religions in Israel. For reference purposes Judaism, Catholicism, and Islam are not countries. A
lso of Note. the Vatican is a country but it also is not a religion. The Vatican is the Central home of the Holy Catholic church.
I hope this alleviates any further confusion

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Israel is a segregated, apartheid state run by Jews. Jews are members of the Mosaic confession which constitutes a religion. This is despite the fantasies of some ignoramuses who believe an atheist can be a Jew.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Israel is a segregated, apartheid state run by Jews. Jews are members of the Mosaic confession which constitutes a religion. This is despite the fantasies of some ignoramuses who believe an atheist can be a Jew.

I am sorry but just because a number of people in government are Jewish doesn't not make it a country. Israel is recognized as a sovereign, independent country. Care to make another ignorant statement?

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One for the anti-scientists and Denialists and Luddites alike:

Pack ice scarce off Eastern Canada

A Canadian Coast Guard official said Monday that many parts of the ocean near Newfoundland and Labrador are devoid of pack ice — a condition that hasn't been seen in at least 40 years.

"It's been an unusual year this year, to the point that there is no ice. ..."


People living on Quebec's Magdalen Islands in the Gulf of St. Lawrence confirm the pack ice they usually see at this time of year hasn't formed near their shores.

"Yes, there's only water around the island. There's no ice at all around the island. There's no ice at all," said veteran mariner Jean-Claude Lapierre. "I'm 69 years old and I never saw that before. I talked to the older people and it's the first time they saw that."


I'm still looking for any evidence that we can all pollute the atmosphere and the earth on such a vast scale with complete impunity and with no consequence.

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Israel is a segregated, apartheid state run by Jews. Jews are members of the Mosaic confession which constitutes a religion. This is despite the fantasies of some ignoramuses who believe an atheist can be a Jew.

I am sorry but just because a number of people in government are Jewish doesn't not make it a country. Israel is recognized as a sovereign, independent country. Care to make another ignorant statement?

Blurf, you never answered about the Vatican being recognized as a sovereign, independent country, hey so was Japan under its living god emperor and shinto religion.
Can you find anyone in the Israel "government" who isn't Jewish? Forgot the laws that require that? Forgot the laws on citizenship? How convenient.

We are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. None of you remember when governments, countries and religion were synonyms. Israel still is and it isn't the only example. If you don't understand the pieces you can't put the picture together.

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though its hard to find information about Palestinians in the Knesset(israeli parliament) I found this posting as recent as 2006 that clearly shows Palestinian Arabs are members of the Knesset. So no the parliament/Knesset is not ruled exclusively by Jews. So what does this say about he Jews religion running Israel. Everything and it also shows that anyone can spew and brew hatred when they themselves are decisively innacurate and they do shoddy research on the topic.

How about we get back to the climate now?

---

In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Will this help? The trouble with wind power.

---

Israel is a segregated, apartheid state run by Jews. Jews are members of the Mosaic confession which constitutes a religion. This is despite the fantasies of some ignoramuses who believe an atheist can be a Jew.

I am sorry but just because a number of people in government are Jewish doesn't not make it a country. Israel is recognized as a sovereign, independent country. Care to make another ignorant statement?[/quote]
Blurf, you never answered about the Vatican being recognized as a sovereign, independent country, hey so was Japan under its living god emperor and shinto religion.
Can you find anyone in the Israel "government" who isn't Jewish? Forgot the laws that require that? Forgot the laws on citizenship? How convenient.

We are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. None of you remember when governments, countries and religion were synonyms. Israel still is and it isn't the only example. If you don't understand the pieces you can't put the picture together.
[/quote]

Actually I do remember the synonymous nature, Gary. Sorry for not answering previously-I missed the part you referred to. Who cares if an Israeli government member is Jewish...I don't. It is still recognized as a sovereign country and to me the Vatican is the same thing. It doesn't bother me.

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Will this help? The trouble with wind power.

Sorry, but you're badly behind the times...


Wind power in Spain

On particular windy days, wind power generation has surpassed all other electricity sources in Spain, including nuclear. On November 8th 2009 wind power production reached its all-time maximum of 11,564 MW; a few hours earlier it had reached the highest percentage of electricity production, with wind farms covering 53% of the total demand.


Hierro: Spain's Completely Renewable Island

Spain has declared that El Hierro, one of the smallest of Spain's Canary Islands, will soon be completely carbon neutral. The island, with a population of around 10,000, will be powered by a combination of wind and hydroelectric power.


Or does that not fit your (back garden) world view?

Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Will this help? The trouble with wind power.

Sorry, but you're badly behind the times...


Wind power in Spain

On particular windy days, wind power generation has surpassed all other electricity sources in Spain, including nuclear. On November 8th 2009 wind power production reached its all-time maximum of 11,564 MW; a few hours earlier it had reached the highest percentage of electricity production, with wind farms covering 53% of the total demand.


Hierro: Spain's Completely Renewable Island

Spain has declared that El Hierro, one of the smallest of Spain's Canary Islands, will soon be completely carbon neutral. The island, with a population of around 10,000, will be powered by a combination of wind and hydroelectric power.


Or does that not fit your (back garden) world view?

Regards,
Martin

One little detail you omitted, for every green job Spain created, they lost two regular jobs. They are calling it an economic disaster.
You might also want to look at this link

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According to the government of Israel there was no such thing. Do you think Jews could ignore such a thing if it really happened?

Israel is a religion, not a government. Don't confuse the two.

Israel is a segregated, apartheid state run by Jews. Jews are members of the Mosaic confession which constitutes a religion. This is despite the fantasies of some ignoramuses who believe an atheist can be a Jew.

I am sorry but just because a number of people in government are Jewish doesn't not make it a country. Israel is recognized as a sovereign, independent country. Care to make another ignorant statement?

Where are you going with Israel being both a recognized country and not being a country?

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

I'm still looking for any evidence that we can all pollute the atmosphere and the earth on such a vast scale with complete impunity and with no consequence.

Regards,
Martin

Vast scale.

CO2 in atmosphere 790 GigaTons +/- 5%, +/- 40GT
Human contribution 3GT per year

Vast scale == 3/80 = 0.0375% of the uncertainty of CO2 content

Now tell me is is all staying in the atmosphere and I will tell you the pH of the ocean is not changing because of it. If you want the pH to increase then some fraction is coming out of the atmosphere. I leave those calculations to the student/melter.

Aren't numbers grand?

There is a currently growing body of opinion, which I consider equally deluded, that says we would be in an ice age now were it not for human activity. Consequences can be very good consequences.

A rational person observes the Sahara began to appear some 10k years ago and reached roughly its current extent 3500 years ago. A rational person asks after the disaster which struck humanity back then and asks why there are no memorials to it.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

If you two want to start your own thread concerning Isreal & Jews that's up to you.
This thread is about climate change.

ML1, I completely agree with you.
Wind power is the way of the future. Turbines are becoming more efficent every day. California & Germany are seeing what is known as "repowering", small, many-kilowatt machines are being replaced with multi-megawatt machines (up to 7MW each!).

Here in New Zealand we only have 600MW worth of energy generated from wind and 80MW under construction, but there are resource consent applications for a total of 2800MW of wind energy.

---

- Luke.

though its hard to find information about Palestinians in the Knesset(israeli parliament) I found this posting as recent as 2006 that clearly shows Palestinian Arabs are members of the Knesset. So no the parliament/Knesset is not ruled exclusively by Jews. So what does this say about he Jews religion running Israel. Everything and it also shows that anyone can spew and brew hatred when they themselves are decisively innacurate and they do shoddy research on the topic.

There are three non-Jews in the Knesset. It is illegal for any party or member of the Knesset to have a political platform which would change Israel into a country which would have equal rights for all its citizens.

How about we get back to the climate now?

Israel bashing is fun because it is so easy. Sort of like bashing Little Rock in the good old days. In fact Israel makes the old south look like flaming liberals. Did the southern states ever build communities for whites only? Israel has always done that. And it has built them all on land stolen from its lawful owners.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

If you two want to start your own thread concerning Isreal & Jews that's up to you.
This thread is about climate change.

ML1, I completely agree with you.
Wind power is the way of the future. Turbines are becoming more efficent every day. California & Germany are seeing what is known as "repowering", small, many-kilowatt machines are being replaced with multi-megawatt machines (up to 7MW each!).

Here in New Zealand we only have 600MW worth of energy generated from wind and 80MW under construction, but there are resource consent applications for a total of 2800MW of wind energy.

At present existing wind farms only function at 35% of capacity because of wind availability. In other words is a 10 megawatt capacity is needed then at least 30MW must be installed to get 10MW-Hr because the wind is not blowing fast enough most of the time.

The bad news is that there are times when there is no wind. Some place there has to be a conventional or nuclear plant with the needed capacity unless people can be convinced to live without electricity until the wind picks up.

---

Unvarnished
Haaretz
Jerusalem Post
The origin of the Yahweh Cult

If you two want to start your own thread concerning Isreal & Jews that's up to you.
This thread is about climate change.

ML1, I completely agree with you.
Wind power is the way of the future. Turbines are becoming more efficent every day. California & Germany are seeing what is known as "repowering", small, many-kilowatt machines are being replaced with multi-megawatt machines (up to 7MW each!).

Here in New Zealand we only have 600MW worth of energy generated from wind and 80MW under construction, but there are resource consent applications for a total of 2800MW of wind energy.

At present existing wind farms only function at 35% of capacity because of wind availability. In other words is a 10 megawatt capacity is needed then at least 30MW must be installed to get 10MW-Hr because the wind is not blowing fast enough most of the time.

The bad news is that there are times when there is no wind. Some place there has to be a conventional or nuclear plant with the needed capacity unless people can be convinced to live without electricity until the wind picks up.

Obviously you have never been to New Zealand.
We nearly always have wind here.



100km/h is not uncommon. Perhaps two or three times each month.

---

- Luke.

Will this help? The trouble with wind power.

Sorry, but you're badly behind the times...


Wind power in Spain

On particular windy days, wind power generation has surpassed all other electricity sources in Spain, including nuclear. On November 8th 2009 wind power production reached its all-time maximum of 11,564 MW; a few hours earlier it had reached the highest percentage of electricity production, with wind farms covering 53% of the total demand.


Hierro: Spain's Completely Renewable Island

Spain has declared that El Hierro, one of the smallest of Spain's Canary Islands, will soon be completely carbon neutral. The island, with a population of around 10,000, will be powered by a combination of wind and hydroelectric power.


Or does that not fit your (back garden) world view?

Regards,
Martin

One little detail you omitted, for every green job Spain created, they lost two regular jobs. They are calling it an economic disaster.
You might also want to look at this link

Phew! Why is it that "conspiracy theorists" articles are so horribly turgid and convoluted and concentrate more on the supposed conspiracy and FOI issues and their "sleuthing for their view of the truth" than actually commenting on the actual subject?... Are the conspiracists trying to obfuscate something?

To save others wading through a screenful of conspiracy, the main paragraph is:

Some European economists took a look. In March, a research team from Madrid’s King Juan Carlos University produced a detailed, substantive, heavily sourced, two-method paper: “Study of the Effects on Employment of Public Aid to Renewable Energy Sources.” (pdf) The paper concluded that Spain’s “green jobs” program was an economic failure, in fact costing Spain many jobs.

And scanning through that gives the summary:

Note firstly that the report is NOT about wind energy or renewable sources. It is purely looking at whether aid (subsidies) to renewable energy sources "creates more jobs".

OK, very good shift of the goal posts there.

My uneducated view is that subsidising better education would go much further for boosting the economy and 'creating' more jobs... Put the money directly where it is intended for whatever it is you're wanting to do.

My summary of that article is that they argue that more new jobs would have been 'created' by investing the subsidies money elsewhere. They also argue that higher energy prices will drive away high energy use heavy industry and cite one example of that for a stainless steel manufacturer. They also claim that renewables drive higher energy costs.


Yep. That's one part of the story.

Add in the cost of pollution and the cost of cleaning up the pollution from the fossil fuels plants and you should find that all other renewable sources excluding photovoltaic will work out cheaper.

Hell, if oil prices rush up to $100 per barrel again, all renewables will be cheaper than oil! (Note that gas and coal prices proportionately follow oil.)

You might even find that the renewables are more efficient and actually need fewer people to feed and run the plant than fossil plants.


Which leaves the 'economic' argument...

Perhaps we have enjoyed for far too long fossil fuels that are far too cheap where the resultant pollution has been ignored for critically too long.

Even so, all the renewables work out to be cheaper or comparable in costs with only photovoltaic remaining the very expensive alternative.


And for a very good example in person, on the ground, I've just been enjoying the electricity and heat from a large CHP system that powers an entire valley of a few thousand people entirely from wood chippings and waste wood from the surrounding farms and forestry. The flue gasses are reburnt so there is no smoke. It's also nicely efficient and there's no smoke. That has also generated a thriving wood industry in the area from coppicing through to wood products and wood construction. All carbon neutral for the CHP generation itself.


It all comes down to making best use of the available resources. Burning millions of years of fossil carbon in just a few decades is not the way to go...


Regards,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)