Thanks for the data, though. Interesting.

Strange whenever hydrogen comes up in a topic people seem to have a built in mechanism that triggers the perpetual motion/zero-point argument.

.

Well, yes, because I know that someone is going to bring up the water fuel crud again.

---

BOINC WIKI

This time it ended up being you,

Meanwhile Stan cruises his buggy in the after life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU

http://joecell.cloud.prohosting.com/


NOT perpetual motion or z-point.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Batteries only looks like the way to go for any vehicle that can make its daily rounds on batteries only (think commuter cars).

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs. Vehicles that make longer trips will have to have a range extender of some sort.

Coming to a show room near you in 2010, able to run on batteries for over 40 miles with Gas for trips longer than the battery will last and able to recharge over night making possible a true electric car when used only for short trips The GM Volt and here GM Web site

---

Batteries only looks like the way to go for any vehicle that can make its daily rounds on batteries only (think commuter cars).

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs. Vehicles that make longer trips will have to have a range extender of some sort.

Coming to a show room near you in 2010, able to run on batteries for over 40 miles with Gas for trips longer than the battery will last and able to recharge over night making possible a true electric car when used only for short trips The GM Volt and here GM Web site

Yes, I know about the Chevy Volt. If you only need a 2 seater (and live in California) the Aptera gets either 120 miles on a charge (electric only model) or 60 miles on a charge with 120+ Mpg after that (series hybrid model) < $30K for either. If you have a lot of money and only need a 2 seater the [url=http://www.teslamotors.com]Tesla[url] might be for you. $100K but gets 250 miles on a charge. The next version of the Toyota Prius will go 20 miles on a charge at < 25MpH (grumble).

I was really hoping for something slightly larger than the Volt, but I may go with that for my next car.

---

BOINC WIKI

Batteries only looks like the way to go for any vehicle that can make its daily rounds on batteries only (think commuter cars).

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs. Vehicles that make longer trips will have to have a range extender of some sort.

Coming to a show room near you in 2010, able to run on batteries for over 40 miles with Gas for trips longer than the battery will last and able to recharge over night making possible a true electric car when used only for short trips The GM Volt and here GM Web site

Yes, I know about the Chevy Volt. If you only need a 2 seater (and live in California) the Aptera gets either 120 miles on a charge (electric only model) or 60 miles on a charge with 120+ Mpg after that (series hybrid model) < $30K for either. If you have a lot of money and only need a 2 seater the Tesla[url] might be for you. $100K but gets 250 miles on a charge. The next version of the Toyota Prius will go 20 miles on a charge at < 25MpH (grumble).

I was really hoping for something slightly larger than the Volt, but I may go with that for my next car.

Actually, there's a dealership for [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_(automobile)]this car right up the street from me. The biggest laugh is it was built in the out-lot of a Hummer Dealership! :-)

I've seen some of them driving around...

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs.

Not so... Odd that the so-called 'geniuses' haven't figured that one out yet... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Polluted air is all we have to compress now, thanks to petrol and corporations. This would still require electricity to compress the air, and you still wouldn't get the energy power that hydrogen would provide. So it would never do for commercial uses which is a huge part of the equation....

...brain blanks out and leaps to...

Time for petrol burning to end before we end as a species and become petrol for the next "masters" of our planet ourselves.

This reminds me of that famous S. Harris cartoon. "I think you should be more explicit here in step two."

Think of your children and children's children.

That's silly. They will confront the costs and benefits of the world they are born into, just as individuals today did the same thing. YOU think of them. Wring your hands all you wish. Sob gently that room with the fridge in it gets warmer.

None of that will take a single power plant off line, or cut emissions one iota. China and India will STILL be exempt, will still be burning coal, and still well on pace to bury the rest of the world in total emissions. China already does...

Jack's car is just hooey. Pat yerself on the back there Jack.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Batteries only looks like the way to go for any vehicle that can make its daily rounds on batteries only (think commuter cars).

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs. Vehicles that make longer trips will have to have a range extender of some sort.

Coming to a show room near you in 2010, able to run on batteries for over 40 miles with Gas for trips longer than the battery will last and able to recharge over night making possible a true electric car when used only for short trips The GM Volt and here GM Web site

Yes, I know about the Chevy Volt. If you only need a 2 seater (and live in California) the Aptera gets either 120 miles on a charge (electric only model) or 60 miles on a charge with 120+ Mpg after that (series hybrid model) < $30K for either. If you have a lot of money and only need a 2 seater the Tesla[url] might be for you. $100K but gets 250 miles on a charge. The next version of the Toyota Prius will go 20 miles on a charge at < 25MpH (grumble).

I was really hoping for something slightly larger than the Volt, but I may go with that for my next car.

Actually, there's a dealership for [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_(automobile)]this car right up the street from me. The biggest laugh is it was built in the out-lot of a Hummer Dealership! :-)

I've seen some of them driving around...

... and if you read the reviews, the fuel economy is quite disappointing compared to competitors like the Chevy Aero and the Honda Fit -- same gas mileage and better utility.

---

This time it ended up being you,

Meanwhile Stan cruises his buggy in the after life:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6yRn4IAsrU

http://joecell.cloud.prohosting.com/


NOT perpetual motion or z-point.

I didn't watch the video. If you have something to say, say it. Video takes too long.

JM7 predicted that we'd get into perpetual motion, and sure enough, the joecell site talks about over-unity.

---

Batteries only looks like the way to go for any vehicle that can make its daily rounds on batteries only (think commuter cars).

However batteries have range limitations and recharge time between runs. Vehicles that make longer trips will have to have a range extender of some sort.

Coming to a show room near you in 2010, able to run on batteries for over 40 miles with Gas for trips longer than the battery will last and able to recharge over night making possible a true electric car when used only for short trips The GM Volt and here GM Web site

You read about the Volt and the GM E-Flex system and it sounds quite amazing: it will burn gasoline, E85, biodiesel or Hydrogen.

Dig a little deeper and you find out that it can be equipped with a gasoline/E85 generator, or a diesel generator, or a Hydrogen fuel cell, but not all three at the same time, and the conversion between them isn't going to be done without the help of a mechanic with a cherry-picker.

---

Can't help but wonder how things would be had we begun development 30 years ago when Jack was doing his thing.

You didn't watch the vids Ned? But your one of the big contributors to this thread.

Rush knows so much about everything. It's amazing!


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Rush knows so much about everything. It's amazing!

Nope. I don't comment if I don't know what I'm talking about.

So, did you deliberately mis-state my position, or was that just an "oops?"

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Can't help but wonder how things would be had we begun development 30 years ago when Jack was doing his thing.
.

The electric car is around 100 year old, the quest for a better battery had been going for years, fuel cells have been around for a long time but still are very costly and hydrogen is dangerous, costly and very hard to store. There was a show on the Discovery channel called "Connections" where they explored the fact that a series of inventions and ideas have to come together at the same time to make something new. It looks like we are reaching the point where that can happen in the automotive industry. To reply to your statement, development was going on 30 years ago or Jack would not have had his car.

---

Can't help but wonder how things would be had we begun development 30 years ago when Jack was doing his thing.
.

The electric car is around 100 year old, the quest for a better battery had been going for years, fuel cells have been around for a long time but still are very costly and hydrogen is dangerous, costly and very hard to store. There was a show on the Discovery channel called "Connections" where they explored the fact that a series of inventions and ideas have to come together at the same time to make something new. It looks like we are reaching the point where that can happen in the automotive industry. To reply to your statement, development was going on 30 years ago or Jack would not have had his car.

When I say development I don't mean a prototype. I mean full on infrastructure logistics. Solar and wind electricity have been around for so long it's embarrassing we haven't implemented them before now. So much open land just sitting there doing nothing at all.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Rush knows so much about everything. It's amazing!

Nope. I don't comment if I don't know what I'm talking about.

So, did you deliberately mis-state my position, or was that just an "oops?"

I said: (Message ID 792751)

We dump that on our enemies and Rush says there are absolutely no health hazards!


You said: (Message ID 603753)

Now... Do you have any idea what a single particle can do to a human?

Absolutely nothing because single particles (whatever that means) aren't enough to cause heavy metal poisoning and they're too small to contain enough radioactivity to cause radiation poisoning either. In fact, you'd have to eat enough of it to really poison you bad to get enough such that the radiation contained in it would cause you problems. But so what? You could do that with lead. Or iron. Both will kill you very very quickly if ingested as powder, far far faster than DU would. And they aren't radioactive at all.

[/quote]


If I mis-stated your position I apologize. It was not intentional.


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Think of your children and children's children.

Why start now? We've long been use to being ignored and living off the scraps... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Can't help but wonder how things would be had we begun development 30 years ago when Jack was doing his thing.
.

The electric car is around 100 year old, the quest for a better battery had been going for years, fuel cells have been around for a long time but still are very costly and hydrogen is dangerous, costly and very hard to store. There was a show on the Discovery channel called "Connections" where they explored the fact that a series of inventions and ideas have to come together at the same time to make something new. It looks like we are reaching the point where that can happen in the automotive industry. To reply to your statement, development was going on 30 years ago or Jack would not have had his car.

When I say development I don't mean a prototype. I mean full on infrastructure logistics. Solar and wind electricity have been around for so long it's embarrassing we haven't implemented them before now. So much open land just sitting there doing nothing at all.

The modern auto is the results of over a 100 years of development. To produce something that will survive in the market place, the product must be at least as good as what is already out there. Prototypes and limited runs are the only way to prove if you have something that you will not go broke when produced in large numbers. The auto industry as already turned out Edsels and now days has been burned by the SUV. If the oil prices stay high, it will be worth the risk for the auto industry to introduce something better because people will be willing to risk new technology and a higher price tag to save a few bucks at the pump. If oil cost were low, the customers would never buy small cars and would stick with SUV's. The auto industry can only produce what people will buy. I don't know how old you are, but when the 1970 oil price spike happened, every one wanted a small car. This is when Japan took over the auto market place because they were the only one producing small cars. Within a few years, oil dropped in price and people moved back to bigger cars because the small cars didn't meet American needs(you just can't haul six kids and gear in an econobox). The real problem is getting people to want something like this, other wise you have to make something that meets there needs and wants.
You also appears you have not been around a wind farm. They can only be put in a few places and people don't like living near them. To be cost effective the U.S. could only provide a small percentage of it's power needs from wind. Also, the wind tends to blow mostly during the day. This makes wind good for day time power but useless at night.
As for Solar, you only get about 100 watts a square meter. If you looked at my first link, you would have found it takes more power to produce solar cells than they produce but this may change in the future. Other forms of solar power have also have problems when you want to go big. The only good replacement for Coal is Nuclear and as for the waste problems, we should be pushing development of Fast Neutron Reactors (also known as breeder reactors). They solve the waste problem by burning not only their waste products but the waste from old style reactors and produce waste that breaks down in a few hundred years instead of thousands of years. We can thank Jimmy Carter for banding fast neutron reactors in the U.S. and giving us a real waste disposal problem.
You may look at Arizona, California and New Mexico as waste land, but it's ecology is just as important as that of the east coast and far more fragile. Damage to it can take 100 years to recover because growth is much slower.

---

Can't help but wonder how things would be had we begun development 30 years ago when Jack was doing his thing.
.

The electric car is around 100 year old, the quest for a better battery had been going for years, fuel cells have been around for a long time but still are very costly and hydrogen is dangerous, costly and very hard to store. There was a show on the Discovery channel called "Connections" where they explored the fact that a series of inventions and ideas have to come together at the same time to make something new. It looks like we are reaching the point where that can happen in the automotive industry. To reply to your statement, development was going on 30 years ago or Jack would not have had his car.

When I say development I don't mean a prototype. I mean full on infrastructure logistics. Solar and wind electricity have been around for so long it's embarrassing we haven't implemented them before now. So much open land just sitting there doing nothing at all.

The modern auto is the results of over a 100 years of development. To produce something that will survive in the market place, the product must be at least as good as what is already out there. Prototypes and limited runs are the only way to prove if you have something that you will not go broke when produced in large numbers. The auto industry as already turned out Edsels and now days has been burned by the SUV. If the oil prices stay high, it will be worth the risk for the auto industry to introduce something better because people will be willing to risk new technology and a higher price tag to save a few bucks at the pump. If oil cost were low, the customers would never buy small cars and would stick with SUV's. The auto industry can only produce what people will buy. I don't know how old you are, but when the 1970 oil price spike happened, every one wanted a small car. This is when Japan took over the auto market place because they were the only one producing small cars. Within a few years, oil dropped in price and people moved back to bigger cars because the small cars didn't meet American needs(you just can't haul six kids and gear in an econobox). The real problem is getting people to want something like this, other wise you have to make something that meets there needs and wants.
You also appears you have not been around a wind farm. They can only be put in a few places and people don't like living near them. To be cost effective the U.S. could only provide a small percentage of it's power needs from wind. Also, the wind tends to blow mostly during the day. This makes wind good for day time power but useless at night.
As for Solar, you only get about 100 watts a square meter. If you looked at my first link, you would have found it takes more power to produce solar cells than they produce but this may change in the future. Other forms of solar power have also have problems when you want to go big. The only good replacement for Coal is Nuclear and as for the waste problems, we should be pushing development of Fast Neutron Reactors (also known as breeder reactors). They solve the waste problem by burning not only their waste products but the waste from old style reactors and produce waste that breaks down in a few hundred years instead of thousands of years. We can thank Jimmy Carter for banding fast neutron reactors in the U.S. and giving us a real waste disposal problem.
You may look at Arizona, California and New Mexico as waste land, but it's ecology is just as important as that of the east coast and far more fragile. Damage to it can take 100 years to recover because growth is much slower.

Plenty of excuses and not many results,

The original diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. Solar makes no sound. Plenty of desert land for it. Sprawl is sprawling but plenty of places for windmills away from homes and businesses.

Nuclear sucks.


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Point of order. Windmills have been in the Livermore Valley (California) for at least 25 years- They were probably in design and development long before that . They still haven't amounted to much here in the US even with huge incentives and tax breaks--Are they economical even now? --what is the cost per kilowatt hour? --how does it compare to coal or nuclear.

DADDIO

Point of order. Windmills have been in the Livermore Valley (California) for at least 25 years- They were probably in design and development long before that . They still haven't amounted to much here in the US even with huge incentives and tax breaks--Are they economical even now? --what is the cost per kilowatt hour? --how does it compare to coal or nuclear.

DADDIO

How does it compare to solar?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss