“Termination of User Contracts”

Oh dear... this sounds like it's gonna put a crimp in my hecklings... ;)

I'm still here Jeffrey. Have at it.

No " guilt by association " eh?

I was deemed guilty for simply having my name show up on the list of users that were a part of " The 30 ".

Fortunately, several people let the admins here know that I was truthful when I told them that I had nothing to do with " The 30 ".

But don't tell me there was no " guilt by association ". I was not given the benefit of the doubt until myself and others told them I wasn't a part of the issue.

Not only that, but I really don't think I will be issued an apology for their impugning my honesty, even though I am still here and, therefore, no longer considered among the guilty.

Funny how that works. They can accuse someone of being guilty ( and using some very insulting phrases in doing so ) and yet they don't have to make any admission of being wrong even when it's clearly shown to them that they are.

Really? What were you deemed to be "guilty" of? Did you get moderated? Did you pay a fine or go to jail? Or was it simply brought to your attention so that you were given a chance to explain. Don't confuse probing for answers with being convicted--if you suffered no sanction, you were not "deemed guilty".

No " guilt by association " eh?

I was deemed guilty for simply having my name show up on the list of users that were a part of " The 30 ".

Fortunately, several people let the admins here know that I was truthful when I told them that I had nothing to do with " The 30 ".

But don't tell me there was no " guilt by association ". I was not given the benefit of the doubt until myself and others told them I wasn't a part of the issue.

Not only that, but I really don't think I will be issued an apology for their impugning my honesty, even though I am still here and, therefore, no longer considered among the guilty.

Funny how that works. They can accuse someone of being guilty ( and using some very insulting phrases in doing so ) and yet they don't have to make any admission of being wrong even when it's clearly shown to them that they are.

Really? What were you deemed to be "guilty" of? Did you get moderated? Did you pay a fine or go to jail? Or was it simply brought to your attention so that you were given a chance to explain. Don't confuse probing for answers with being convicted--if you suffered no sanction, you were not "deemed guilty".

But....there is a big difference between being " deemed " not guilty...and being ( basically ) TOLD that I was guilty before any questions at all were asked of me.

Unless you were the recipient of the particular PM that I am referring to, or had access to what it said before it was sent out, you have no place saying anything about it's contents or tone.

Ya know...if you would like....I would be HAPPY to show the PM I was sent about it. Or would that be a violation of privacy??? Does it really matter since I was accused of those violations anyway??

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

My view.......not that it really matters much at this point.
Is that the double agent mod involved in this matter should have received a permaban, but the other users who only read their 'modlist leaks' should only have been put on notice, unless they did something malicious with the information.

I understand that those on the modlist feel violated, and with justification, but somebody who only read the things leaked and did nothing further with it are being given cruel and unusual punishment.

I can only say that I never felt harmed by such leaked information, as I always spoke my mind on the modlist, as here in the forums, and would not be afraid to have it see the light of day. I never hid behind the tag, and I am not afraid of the scrutiny. Disclosure of certain personal information (which has never happened to me, but I do not hide much....) might be considered a more serious infraction. And this has happened to some others.

As always, this is just MY opinion, and is subject to reinforcement or change pending further input.

I am quite discouraged, I have lost a number of good friends, and this pains me.

Best regards to all who have 'left',
Mark

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Pure mathematics is, in its way, the poetry of logical ideas.

Albert Einstein

Even kitties cry sometimes......
Argent......Hold Your Head Up

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

But....there is a big difference between being " deemed " not guilty...and being ( basically ) TOLD that I was guilty before any questions at all were asked of me.

You are being paranoid. No matter how rude any message might have been, you suffered no punishment based on a mere accusation. You weren't banned, your posts weren't deleted and you were allowed to continue participating in the project (whether or not you did is/was up to you).

Unless you were the recipient of the particular PM that I am referring to, or had access to what it said before it was sent out, you have no place saying anything about it's contents or tone.

Content and tone may have bothered you--I'm sure they did--but it does not make you "deemed" guilty. In fact, in the face of those revelations, it seems proper to ask you questions about it. Did you think the questions were wrong to be asked in the first place? Maybe you would be offended by the "tone" of any questions, as it sounds like you believe the questions themselves impugn your integrity.

Ya know...if you would like....I would be HAPPY to show the PM I was sent about it. Or would that be a violation of privacy??? Does it really matter since I was accused of those violations anyway??

Again, an accusation is simply that. You cleared it up. You were not deemed guilty; you were not punished; in fact, you were asked about the situation. Sorry it offended you to be asked.

You got a beef??
Go hose it............wonderful



You may have just toasted what was the most wonderful thing about the cafe here.,
Nicely done, my friends........
You are boss...........whatever........live with it................you rule...............

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

My view.......not that it really matters much at this point.
Is that the double agent mod involved in this matter should have received a permaban, but the other users who only read their 'modlist leaks' should only have been put on notice, unless they did something malicious with the information.

I understand that those on the modlist feel violated, and with justification, but somebody who only read the things leaked and did nothing further with it are being given cruel and unusual punishment.

I appreciate this comment, but I do want to put something out there. Those who had their User Contracts terminated lost only one thing - the ability to participate in a science project. Many people have told me today that the punishment did not fit the crime. About half of them think we went too far. The other half think we did not go far enough.

I miss them too.

Wilma

My view.......not that it really matters much at this point.
Is that the double agent mod involved in this matter should have received a permaban, but the other users who only read their 'modlist leaks' should only have been put on notice, unless they did something malicious with the information.

I understand that those on the modlist feel violated, and with justification, but somebody who only read the things leaked and did nothing further with it are being given cruel and unusual punishment.

I appreciate this comment, but I do want to put something out there. Those who had their User Contracts terminated lost only one thing - the ability to participate in a science project. Many people have told me today that the punishment did not fit the crime. About half of them think we went too far. The other half think we did not go far enough.

I miss them too.

Wilma

The idea that only the "double agent mod" should have been banned ignores the fact that he or she was working, directly, for those others who used the information improperly; and what should have been kept private under the rules was revealed to those others for the sole purpose of violating the rights of people considered to be enemies. The bans were justified, and probably missed some who should have been dismissed. I don't particularly miss those who are now gone, but then again, I was considered (for no rational reason) to be an enemy.

I'm a little confused....but that's probably just because I'm not as actively involved in these message boards as many people here. BUT, I have been a member for a long time so I'd like to ask a favour.

Can anybody paraphrase what's actually happening here (as in explain to to someone who doesn't quite understand WHAT information has been leaked, and WHY this is such a major deal)?

Many thanks to anyone who can 'dumb it down' for me!

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Content and tone may have bothered you--I'm sure they did--but it does not make you "deemed" guilty. In fact, in the face of those revelations, it seems proper to ask you questions about it. Did you think the questions were wrong to be asked in the first place? Maybe you would be offended by the "tone" of any questions, as it sounds like you believe the questions themselves impugn your integrity.

But that's my point. I wasn't ASKED any questions. There was nothing but the accusation that I, along with others, had done something illegal.

The only reason I was " given " an opportunity to clear it up is because I just flat out TOOK the opportunity on my own to let Eric know that it was a load of horsesh*t.

There were no questions asked of me. At all.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I'm a little confused....but that's probably just because I'm not as actively involved in these message boards as many people here. BUT, I have been a member for a long time so I'd like to ask a favour.

Can anybody paraphrase what's actually happening here (as in explain to to someone who doesn't quite understand WHAT information has been leaked, and WHY this is such a major deal)?

Many thanks to anyone who can 'dumb it down' for me!

Jeff,

If you read the Admin's Sad News thread, it explains about as much as it can. This thread was created to allow people to discuss what happened, if you feel the need.

Content and tone may have bothered you--I'm sure they did--but it does not make you "deemed" guilty. In fact, in the face of those revelations, it seems proper to ask you questions about it. Did you think the questions were wrong to be asked in the first place? Maybe you would be offended by the "tone" of any questions, as it sounds like you believe the questions themselves impugn your integrity.

But that's my point. I wasn't ASKED any questions. There was nothing but the accusation that I, along with others, had done something illegal.

The only reason I was " given " an opportunity to clear it up is because I just flat out TOOK the opportunity on my own to let Eric know that it was a load of horsesh*t.

There were no questions asked of me. At all.

Yet, here you are. That means that: despite the initial accusation, you were not "deemed guilty". Maybe there wasn't any evidence to back up the initial accusation; maybe the accusation communicated to you was intended to evoke a response from you, which satisfied people that you had been falsely accused; maybe others who knew the facts came to your defense. Whatever the reason (even though I hate to repeat myself), an accusation does not make you guilty. Get over it! You have not been "deemed guilty", as you are still here.

Content and tone may have bothered you--I'm sure they did--but it does not make you "deemed" guilty. In fact, in the face of those revelations, it seems proper to ask you questions about it. Did you think the questions were wrong to be asked in the first place? Maybe you would be offended by the "tone" of any questions, as it sounds like you believe the questions themselves impugn your integrity.

But that's my point. I wasn't ASKED any questions. There was nothing but the accusation that I, along with others, had done something illegal.

The only reason I was " given " an opportunity to clear it up is because I just flat out TOOK the opportunity on my own to let Eric know that it was a load of horsesh*t.

There were no questions asked of me. At all.

Yet, here you are. That means that: despite the initial accusation, you were not "deemed guilty". Maybe there wasn't any evidence to back up the initial accusation; maybe the accusation communicated to you was intended to evoke a response from you, which satisfied people that you had been falsely accused; maybe others who knew the facts came to your defense. Whatever the reason (even though I hate to repeat myself), an accusation does not make you guilty. Get over it! You have not been "deemed guilty", as you are still here.

Not true. I WAS deemed guilty until I was able to prove otherwise. Now that they know I had nothing to do with anything, I am deemed " not guilty ". Gotta love guilty until proven innocent.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

It appears once again,that the powers that be have thoght them better than I........
So be it.......
You should learn better than to joust with me.............
Brimg them all back, or I shall stand with them.

But I supppos none of the mods will stand with me??/

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Jeff et al

There was a group of people who's only interest in the Seti Forums was "personal." They managed to gain insider information that elevated their position. They used that information and were caught.

There were many Seti User names involved. The administrators at Seti sorted though all of the information and then decided of who was involved, who was responsible. Those that were deamed responsible have been removed.

So Yes, it makes it tough for everyone. It is not something that can not be overcome. It means that users that are here for making the Science work can do just that. If the want to chat while passing time, then someone that might detract from that will not be there.

I hope that helps

Regards

Al
aka Pappa

I'm a little confused....but that's probably just because I'm not as actively involved in these message boards as many people here. BUT, I have been a member for a long time so I'd like to ask a favour.

Can anybody paraphrase what's actually happening here (as in explain to to someone who doesn't quite understand WHAT information has been leaked, and WHY this is such a major deal)?

Many thanks to anyone who can 'dumb it down' for me!

---

Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project.

Content and tone may have bothered you--I'm sure they did--but it does not make you "deemed" guilty. In fact, in the face of those revelations, it seems proper to ask you questions about it. Did you think the questions were wrong to be asked in the first place? Maybe you would be offended by the "tone" of any questions, as it sounds like you believe the questions themselves impugn your integrity.

But that's my point. I wasn't ASKED any questions. There was nothing but the accusation that I, along with others, had done something illegal.

The only reason I was " given " an opportunity to clear it up is because I just flat out TOOK the opportunity on my own to let Eric know that it was a load of horsesh*t.

There were no questions asked of me. At all.

Yet, here you are. That means that: despite the initial accusation, you were not "deemed guilty". Maybe there wasn't any evidence to back up the initial accusation; maybe the accusation communicated to you was intended to evoke a response from you, which satisfied people that you had been falsely accused; maybe others who knew the facts came to your defense. Whatever the reason (even though I hate to repeat myself), an accusation does not make you guilty. Get over it! You have not been "deemed guilty", as you are still here.

Not true. I WAS deemed guilty until I was able to prove otherwise. Now that they know I had nothing to do with anything, I am deemed " not guilty ". Gotta love guilty until proven innocent.

Well KM..... if your name appears to be associated with a group that was leaking the information it is only natural to assume that you are guilty. I'm not at all saying that this reaction is RIGHT, because it's not, but it is a standard human reaction.
As for my feelings on the whole subject..... It doesn't really matter at this point. What was done is done. As for those that are angry at the bannings, here are my thoughts on it....
This project has rules. When these rules are broken there are to be punishments.... no matter who the parties involved are. The rule that was broken by these individuals was, in terms of privacy, a very serious one. Just because the leaked information didn't cause any harm doesn't mean that it is right and should thus not be punished.

If you disagree with this I am sorry, but they are MY opinions and MY opinions will not change with out good reason or proof.

John

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Well KM..... if your name appears to be associated with a group that was leaking the information it is only natural to assume that you are guilty.

But why is that?? What have I done here that would make them assume that I was guilty??

That is the " guilt by association " that they say there was none of.

At this point, I will no longer discuss any of this in this thread. The last thing this project needs at this time is more strife. I would prefer to be a part of the solution, rather than cause more problems.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I would prefer to be a part of the solution, rather than cause more problems.

The solution is to ignore the problems... ;)

(That's what my 'leaders' keep telling me.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .