Rush,

Glaring inconsistencies are the 911 investigations middle name.

You'd disagree with me if I told you there was an ear on either side of your head!


I understand what your saying about government now, Rush,

Or is it Galadrial?

;)

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I posted it so we have all the data we can get on this topic. It would seem to hurt my case but I am looking for the truth so must present all info I get.

I have trouble comprehending people. Not data.

That's because you can't seem to comprehend that many many many of them disagree with you. Or you find it odd when your glaring inconsistencies are pointed out.

Here you seem to believe that 9/11 was a massive gov't conspiracy against the American people, and yet at every turn, you advocate more and larger gov't, bigger and more expensive bureaucracy, and more and more swell gov't programs. You want to take MORE money and power from individuals (impacting most those who can afford it the least) and hand it on over to the gov't.

Smart plan.

goverment programs does not mean more expensive or not good,
in scandinavia healthcare is paid by tax money, so it is free,
and still americas health care cost more per people and is not
even as good.

usa healthcare more expensive than other countrys and quality bad

I posted it so we have all the data we can get on this topic. It would seem to hurt my case but I am looking for the truth so must present all info I get.

I have trouble comprehending people. Not data.

That's because you can't seem to comprehend that many many many of them disagree with you. Or you find it odd when your glaring inconsistencies are pointed out.

Here you seem to believe that 9/11 was a massive gov't conspiracy against the American people, and yet at every turn, you advocate more and larger gov't, bigger and more expensive bureaucracy, and more and more swell gov't programs. You want to take MORE money and power from individuals (impacting most those who can afford it the least) and hand it on over to the gov't.

Smart plan.

goverment programs does not mean more expensive or not good,
in scandinavia healthcare is paid by tax money, so it is free,
and still americas health care cost more per people and is not
even as good.

Nooooo! Don't fall for Rush's trap. This is not a thread about the pros and cons about taxation, medical care or any such thing. Please let's keep this one on track.

While Rush's point may be fair (emphasis on the may), I'd argue it's not pertinent to the subject at hand.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

usa healthcare more expensive than other countrys and quality bad[/quote]

us healthcare most expensive and worst quality

Rush,

Glaring inconsistencies are the 911 investigations middle name.

So you note their glaring inconsistencies, and yours are somehow beyond purview? If you can get why glaring inconsistencies undermines their credibility--then you can get why it does the same thing to yours.

You'd disagree with me if I told you there was an ear on either side of your head!

Which is, of course, simply untrue. I wouldn't even bother to comment.

I understand what your saying about government now, Rush.

Does that mean you'll stop advocating taking power and money away from individuals and giving it to the gov't?

Or is it Galadrial?

All will love me and despair.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Nooooo! Don't fall for Rush's trap. This is not a thread about the pros and cons about taxation, medical care or any such thing. Please let's keep this one on track.

There's no trap. It's a simple reality. But to be clear--letting them evade your points on this thread hasn't kept anything on track.

Note the discussion about thermite. That is evasion, pure and simple. Someone could have found traces of foie gras in that rubble, but if foie gras isn't used to detonate buildings, it doesn't matter that they found it. They could likely find traces of nearly anything in buildings that size, given the number of people that worked there, the number of businesses, vehicles, and deliveries, et cetera.

While Rush's point may be fair (emphasis on the may), I'd argue it's not pertinent to the subject at hand.

But it does illustrate the nature of the arguments at hand and the inconsistency of those making them. Like Mulder, they SO want to believe.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Like Mulder, they SO want to believe.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, the I can't think why they want to believe.

Back to the topic, one of the points the Truthers raise is that the insurance Silverstein got included provisions for terrorist attacks. Regardless of the fact that usch insurance was a condition of his purchase of the lease, the insurance undermines the inside job. Why would the insurance company pay out if it could sue the US Gov't and/or Silverstein (he did order the destruction of WTC 7, right?)? If the US Gov't had secret talks with the insurance company and agreed to cover their costs (so as to ensure the insurers investigation found nothing to point at US involvement), why did the insurers pursue Silverstein through the courts trying to reduce the amount of the payout? Further, it would mean more people were aware of the plans and have not come forward, and this time not Gov't employees...

Alomost at every turn, the inside job theory requires more and more conspirators, and still none of them have come forward.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

The hassle free zone is nice and cozy until it's you who are dead or on fire.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

The hassle free zone is nice and cozy until it's you who are dead or on fire.

Not sure if that one was directed at me, but 9/11 was nothing like a hassle free zone for me. Every time I watch the towers collapse I'm watching friends and colleagues die, it's far from an easy thing to do.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

The hassle free zone is the zone where those who believe the "official" reports are true, reside. How you made the assumption you made, especially considering the entire sentence I posted, is astounding. Unless you were trying to make me look bad?


For everyone else still reading this thread with an open mind:


Loose Change Final Cut - 129 min


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

What a ridiculous whole thread.


This thing should be a handout in a 3rd level epistemology class. Of course, most of those are taught nowadays by guys that believe logic, evidence, and experience are irrelevent to knowledge and the human experience. In other words. We can make up whatever the f#@#@$ we want.


And that proves we're about to deserve a president that acts like a child too....getting whatever he wants by wish. At least that's what he promises. Catastrophes be damned.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

yeah, they are IRRELEVENT to knowledge, somebody was skipping from school, bad boy

yeah, they are IRRELEVENT to knowledge, somebody was skipping from school, bad boy

You're right. I guess I need a spanking.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

The hassle free zone is the zone where those who believe the "official" reports are true, reside. How you made the assumption you made, especially considering the entire sentence I posted, is astounding. Unless you were trying to make me look bad?


For everyone else still reading this thread with an open mind:


Loose Change Final Cut - 129 min

So it was directed at me, for, if anything, I have been arguing that the "official" reports are closer to the truth than anything the 9/11 Truthers suggest, and that you have provided links to. I was not trying to make you "look bad", simply stating the zone I am in is not, and never was, hassle free.

I, for one, do not shout "9/11 was an inside job" at people walking down Church Street, the Truthers do, though to be fair it's a minor hassle, most days. Posting to this thread is a more significant one, because it's unavoidable that I will see images of what I witnessed on that day, inevitably leading to painful memories.

Thanks for the Loose Change link. I had missed the President's comments about what was thought possible, not that his comments change much. Loose Change does the same thing that any of the Truther sites do, and that is never dwell on the facts too long, but build up the coincidences to the point that they become the evidence. So nothing about explosives found at the scenes, but plenty on Air Force activity (love the stat about how many times the Air Force was scrambled, nothing about how many times flights went off course in the same period, wonderfully one-sided).

I feel I do have an open mind, so open that it's screamingly obvious that Loose Change is nothing but a series of contrivances. Oh, the FBI turned the attack on the Pentagon into a federal crime scene, how shocking, for goodness sake a federal building was attacked. What were they going to do? Open it up as a public amusement? Instead, this turns into part of a massive conspiracy, so well kept that not one person has come forward and said they were part of it.

If this were the only thread a person read, they may think that because I tend to favor the "official" story that I also subscribe to all it's been used to excuse. I do not. The Patriot Act is a disgrace, warrantless wire-tapping the same, the War in Iraq another, and Gitmo, etc. But just because I oppose these things does not mean that I have to believe that what lead the us here was created by the Government.

Do I believe we've been told the "whole truth"? Of course not, so that puts me in with the majority of Americans. There are always secrets, and it's simply not possible to describe in exact detail what happned to the towers because there weren't feeds from all points of the buildings to show us. But I do feel I have enough until such time as solid evidence arises to challenge that, and Loose Change is nothing like solid evidence.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Do I believe we've been told the "whole truth"? Of course not, so that puts me in with the majority of Americans.

People don't usually lie when they have nothing to hide... ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The hassle free zone is the zone where those who believe the "official" reports are true, reside. How you made the assumption you made, especially considering the entire sentence I posted, is astounding. Unless you were trying to make me look bad?


For everyone else still reading this thread with an open mind:


Loose Change Final Cut - 129 min

So it was directed at me, for, if anything, I have been arguing that the "official" reports are closer to the truth than anything the 9/11 Truthers suggest, and that you have provided links to. I was not trying to make you "look bad", simply stating the zone I am in is not, and never was, hassle free.

I, for one, do not shout "9/11 was an inside job" at people walking down Church Street, the Truthers do, though to be fair it's a minor hassle, most days. Posting to this thread is a more significant one, because it's unavoidable that I will see images of what I witnessed on that day, inevitably leading to painful memories.

Thanks for the Loose Change link. I had missed the President's comments about what was thought possible, not that his comments change much. Loose Change does the same thing that any of the Truther sites do, and that is never dwell on the facts too long, but build up the coincidences to the point that they become the evidence. So nothing about explosives found at the scenes, but plenty on Air Force activity (love the stat about how many times the Air Force was scrambled, nothing about how many times flights went off course in the same period, wonderfully one-sided).

I feel I do have an open mind, so open that it's screamingly obvious that Loose Change is nothing but a series of contrivances. Oh, the FBI turned the attack on the Pentagon into a federal crime scene, how shocking, for goodness sake a federal building was attacked. What were they going to do? Open it up as a public amusement? Instead, this turns into part of a massive conspiracy, so well kept that not one person has come forward and said they were part of it.

If this were the only thread a person read, they may think that because I tend to favor the "official" story that I also subscribe to all it's been used to excuse. I do not. The Patriot Act is a disgrace, warrantless wire-tapping the same, the War in Iraq another, and Gitmo, etc. But just because I oppose these things does not mean that I have to believe that what lead the us here was created by the Government.

Do I believe we've been told the "whole truth"? Of course not, so that puts me in with the majority of Americans. There are always secrets, and it's simply not possible to describe in exact detail what happned to the towers because there weren't feeds from all points of the buildings to show us. But I do feel I have enough until such time as solid evidence arises to challenge that, and Loose Change is nothing like solid evidence.

Perhaps your pain is blinding you from acknowledging the witness and documentation in the video? Or maybe the pain doesn't allow you to watch the entire video?


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

The hassle free zone is the zone where those who believe the "official" reports are true, reside. How you made the assumption you made, especially considering the entire sentence I posted, is astounding. Unless you were trying to make me look bad?


For everyone else still reading this thread with an open mind:


Loose Change Final Cut - 129 min

So it was directed at me, for, if anything, I have been arguing that the "official" reports are closer to the truth than anything the 9/11 Truthers suggest, and that you have provided links to. I was not trying to make you "look bad", simply stating the zone I am in is not, and never was, hassle free.

I, for one, do not shout "9/11 was an inside job" at people walking down Church Street, the Truthers do, though to be fair it's a minor hassle, most days. Posting to this thread is a more significant one, because it's unavoidable that I will see images of what I witnessed on that day, inevitably leading to painful memories.

Thanks for the Loose Change link. I had missed the President's comments about what was thought possible, not that his comments change much. Loose Change does the same thing that any of the Truther sites do, and that is never dwell on the facts too long, but build up the coincidences to the point that they become the evidence. So nothing about explosives found at the scenes, but plenty on Air Force activity (love the stat about how many times the Air Force was scrambled, nothing about how many times flights went off course in the same period, wonderfully one-sided).

I feel I do have an open mind, so open that it's screamingly obvious that Loose Change is nothing but a series of contrivances. Oh, the FBI turned the attack on the Pentagon into a federal crime scene, how shocking, for goodness sake a federal building was attacked. What were they going to do? Open it up as a public amusement? Instead, this turns into part of a massive conspiracy, so well kept that not one person has come forward and said they were part of it.

If this were the only thread a person read, they may think that because I tend to favor the "official" story that I also subscribe to all it's been used to excuse. I do not. The Patriot Act is a disgrace, warrantless wire-tapping the same, the War in Iraq another, and Gitmo, etc. But just because I oppose these things does not mean that I have to believe that what lead the us here was created by the Government.

Do I believe we've been told the "whole truth"? Of course not, so that puts me in with the majority of Americans. There are always secrets, and it's simply not possible to describe in exact detail what happned to the towers because there weren't feeds from all points of the buildings to show us. But I do feel I have enough until such time as solid evidence arises to challenge that, and Loose Change is nothing like solid evidence.

Perhaps your pain is blinding you from acknowledging the witness and documentation in the video? Or maybe the pain doesn't allow you to watch the entire video?.

Perhaps his (if I may assume Bobby is a guy, no offense intended) pain has caused him to search for the real truth and not unproven conspiracies.

Perhaps your pain is blinding you from acknowledging the witness and documentation in the video? Or maybe the pain doesn't allow you to watch the entire video?

One fireman having trouble comig to terms with all he saw while working in the Trade Center that day does not lead me to conclude that they all feel the same way. Just as one demolition expert saying that WTC 7's collapse was a controlled demolition after being given partial information does not lead me to believe that his assessment is correct.

The lack of both physical evidence and conspirators means that all the Truthers can do is point at coincidences and say "plan". There is physical evidence in droves to support the "official" story, and plenty of people from the FDNY and demolition experts that subscribe to it.

I didn't watch every frame of the 2 hours, but I listened to it all, and hearing the story of symmetrical collapse of WTC 7 in 7 seconds rolled out once more as fact beggars belief. Hearing people's incredulity at what they found in a field in Pennsylvania, does not lead me to conclude that a plane did not crash there. Comparisons of the crash of United 93 with the incident over Lockerbie is plain ridiculous, yet Truthers once again show their lack of respect for the truth and make it anyway.

After a little more research perhaps I overstated the hassle I've experienced from the Truthers themselves. It could so easily be much worse. Luckily for me I didn't take a camera in to work that day.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Barry Jennings - 9/11 WTC7 Full Uncut Interview - 1 of 2 (10 MIN.)

Barry Jennings - 9/11 WTC7 Full Uncut Interview - 2 of 2 (10 MIN.)

---

Perhaps your pain is blinding you from acknowledging the witness and documentation in the video? Or maybe the pain doesn't allow you to watch the entire video?

One fireman having trouble comig to terms with all he saw while working in the Trade Center that day does not lead me to conclude that they all feel the same way. Just as one demolition expert saying that WTC 7's collapse was a controlled demolition after being given partial information does not lead me to believe that his assessment is correct.

The lack of both physical evidence and conspirators means that all the Truthers can do is point at coincidences and say "plan". There is physical evidence in droves to support the "official" story, and plenty of people from the FDNY and demolition experts that subscribe to it.

I didn't watch every frame of the 2 hours, but I listened to it all, and hearing the story of symmetrical collapse of WTC 7 in 7 seconds rolled out once more as fact beggars belief. Hearing people's incredulity at what they found in a field in Pennsylvania, does not lead me to conclude that a plane did not crash there. Comparisons of the crash of United 93 with the incident over Lockerbie is plain ridiculous, yet Truthers once again show their lack of respect for the truth and make it anyway.

After a little more research perhaps I overstated the hassle I've experienced from the Truthers themselves. It could so easily be much worse. Luckily for me I didn't take a camera in to work that day.

One fireman?

You really missed a LOT, bobby.


.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss