I'll bet your an older government employee, bobby,

Trench coat, Pentagon, White House, cold war guy?


.

I'll take your money then. In case you've forgotten, I am only a recent addition to the US's citizenry, having immigrated in 1999 from the UK. Back in the UK I was never a paid employee of HMG, and the only times I've entered Federal Buildings is as part of my visa, green card and naturalization activities, and while on a tour of the White House.

As for the cold war, I graduated in 1991, which played havoc with my Politics course, it started in 1987 and there were one or two significant events that occured during the intervening 4 years ...

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

I'll bet your an older government employee, bobby,

Trench coat, Pentagon, White House, cold war guy?


.

I'll take your money then. In case you've forgotten, I am only a recent addition to the US's citizenry, having immigrated in 1999 from the UK. Back in the UK I was never a paid employee of HMG, and the only times I've entered Federal Buildings is as part of my visa, green card and naturalization activities, and while on a tour of the White House.

As for the cold war, I graduated in 1991, which played havoc with my Politics course, it started in 1987 and there were one or two significant events that occured during the intervening 4 years ...

What two events, Bobby? If it's ok to ask.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I'll bet your an older government employee, bobby,

Trench coat, Pentagon, White House, cold war guy?


.

I'll take your money then. In case you've forgotten, I am only a recent addition to the US's citizenry, having immigrated in 1999 from the UK. Back in the UK I was never a paid employee of HMG, and the only times I've entered Federal Buildings is as part of my visa, green card and naturalization activities, and while on a tour of the White House.

As for the cold war, I graduated in 1991, which played havoc with my Politics course, it started in 1987 and there were one or two significant events that occured during the intervening 4 years ...

What two events, Bobby?

It was an understatement. In terms of the Cold War, some significant events affecting my curriculum were:

The fall of the Berlin Wall
Gorbachev's reforms of the Soviet Union,
the collapse of the Eastern bloc
These events pretty much ended of the cold war.

For British Politics there was also the fall of Margaret Thatcher. In South Africa there was the fall of the apartheid regime, signalled by the release of Nelson Mandela.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

I'll bet your an older government employee, bobby,

Trench coat, Pentagon, White House, cold war guy?


.

I'll take your money then. In case you've forgotten, I am only a recent addition to the US's citizenry, having immigrated in 1999 from the UK. Back in the UK I was never a paid employee of HMG, and the only times I've entered Federal Buildings is as part of my visa, green card and naturalization activities, and while on a tour of the White House.

As for the cold war, I graduated in 1991, which played havoc with my Politics course, it started in 1987 and there were one or two significant events that occurred during the intervening 4 years ...

What two events, Bobby?

It was an understatement. In terms of the Cold War, some significant events affecting my curriculum were:

The fall of the Berlin Wall
Gorbachev's reforms of the Soviet Union,
the collapse of the Eastern bloc
These events pretty much ended of the cold war.

For British Politics there was also the fall of Margaret Thatcher. In South Africa there was the fall of the apartheid regime, signalled by the release of Nelson Mandela.

I see,

Did these events cause havoc because they took away from the regularly scheduled studies?


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I'll bet your an older government employee, bobby,

Trench coat, Pentagon, White House, cold war guy?


.

I'll take your money then. In case you've forgotten, I am only a recent addition to the US's citizenry, having immigrated in 1999 from the UK. Back in the UK I was never a paid employee of HMG, and the only times I've entered Federal Buildings is as part of my visa, green card and naturalization activities, and while on a tour of the White House.

As for the cold war, I graduated in 1991, which played havoc with my Politics course, it started in 1987 and there were one or two significant events that occurred during the intervening 4 years ...

What two events, Bobby?

It was an understatement. In terms of the Cold War, some significant events affecting my curriculum were:

The fall of the Berlin Wall
Gorbachev's reforms of the Soviet Union,
the collapse of the Eastern bloc
These events pretty much ended of the cold war.

For British Politics there was also the fall of Margaret Thatcher. In South Africa there was the fall of the apartheid regime, signalled by the release of Nelson Mandela.

I see,

Did these events cause havoc because they took away from the regularly scheduled studies?

Not exactly, but course content for freshmen in 1990 was substantially different that mine, and my finals exams took world events into account. Whatever, this has little to do with the thread, or your insinutations that I am a former minion of the US Gov't. The paper you referred to discussed products of thermite (and thermate) reactions. Not all of the products of thermite reactions were found, and no thermite (or thermate) was found.

The absence of unreacted thermite/thermate is problematic, as it suggests all thermite/thermate was reacted to completion, and given the lack of sufficient tests, how were the people who planted it to know how much to use? To little and the buildings would remain standing, too much and unreacted thermite would be spread far and wide by the buildings collapse. Even during explosive demolition physical evidence is left beihind (detonators, etc), but uniquely 9/11 left no physical evidence beyond that supporting the "official" version of events. Why not?

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Even during explosive demolition physical evidence is left behind (detonators, etc), but uniquely 9/11 left no physical evidence beyond that supporting the "official" version of events. Why not?

Why not indeed!

Because people were shining and oiling their rifles. Talk about misdirection.

There are still more ominous organizations you could still be affiliated with to take such a stance on an issue of this kind. Especially since your not even a citizen of the US. Though you are the closest thing too it.

Interesting. Reminds me of the voting tampering and Gore presiding over the shutting down of that investigation. People figured, well... if Gore doesn't mind closing the investigation... it must be kosher.

As I mentioned earlier: People were looking for buried people. Then they were scooping everything into trucks to be shipped off overseas for recycling. Precisely the reason for lack there of.

Where is Osama anyhow? We're too busy building a gas line and shipping out barrels of oil to look for such a small and insignificant target like him...

Horse cakes.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Even during explosive demolition physical evidence is left behind (detonators, etc), but uniquely 9/11 left no physical evidence beyond that supporting the "official" version of events. Why not?

Why not indeed!

Because people were shining and oiling their rifles. Talk about misdirection.

There are still more ominous organizations you could still be affiliated with to take such a stance on an issue of this kind. Especially since your not even a citizen of the US. Though you are the closest thing too it.

Interesting. Reminds me of the voting tampering and Gore presiding over the shutting down of that investigation. People figured, well... if Gore doesn't mind closing the investigation... it must be kosher.

As I mentioned earlier: People were looking for buried people. Then they were scooping everything into trucks to be shipped off overseas for recycling. Precisely the reason for lack there of.

Where is Osama anyhow? We're too busy building a gas line and shipping out barrels of oil to look for such a small and insignificant target like him...

Horse cakes.

I said I was not a citizen, I am now. I've worked for the UK's largest travel agents, and software companies large and small (from 30 to 40,000 employees) and now for a bank. I've been a C developer, SQL developer, DBA, support engineer, and systems architect. None of the companies I've worked for could be described as ominous. But why such interest in me and so little about yourself?

So, you believe that in their search for fallen comrades the NYPD and FDNY would have overlooked evidence suggesting the collapses were part of a controlled demolition? Really? Staggering. They wanted answers more than most. You do remember that human remains were discovered years after the collapses? But no physical evidence supporting a controlled demolition. The people that removed any were very specific weren't they? And not one of them has come forward to tell the story of what they did. Extraordinary.

As for Gore, there were books and articles written about that for years after 2000. A year after the Supreme Court anointed Bush the NYT provided an analysis showing that Gore's attempts to overturn the election would not have succeeded, mainly because the different districts used different standards on what qualified as a clear choice, however, if a single standard was applied across Florida, he may have been the winner. Did you miss this? Michael Moore didn't, he mangled it for inclusion in Stupid White Men, and for balance Ann Coulter did the same thing to the same analysis in Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Even during explosive demolition physical evidence is left behind (detonators, etc), but uniquely 9/11 left no physical evidence beyond that supporting the "official" version of events. Why not?

Why not indeed!

Because people were shining and oiling their rifles. Talk about misdirection.

There are still more ominous organizations you could still be affiliated with to take such a stance on an issue of this kind. Especially since your not even a citizen of the US. Though you are the closest thing too it.

Interesting. Reminds me of the voting tampering and Gore presiding over the shutting down of that investigation. People figured, well... if Gore doesn't mind closing the investigation... it must be kosher.

As I mentioned earlier: People were looking for buried people. Then they were scooping everything into trucks to be shipped off overseas for recycling. Precisely the reason for lack there of.

Where is Osama anyhow? We're too busy building a gas line and shipping out barrels of oil to look for such a small and insignificant target like him...

Horse cakes.

I said I was not a citizen, I am now. I've worked for the UK's largest travel agents, and software companies large and small (from 30 to 40,000 employees) and now for a bank. I've been a C developer, SQL developer, DBA, support engineer, and systems architect. None of the companies I've worked for could be described as ominous. But why such interest in me and so little about yourself?

So, you believe that in their search for fallen comrades the NYPD and FDNY would have overlooked evidence suggesting the collapses were part of a controlled demolition? Really? Staggering. They wanted answers more than most. You do remember that human remains were discovered years after the collapses? But no physical evidence supporting a controlled demolition. The people that removed any were very specific weren't they? And not one of them has come forward to tell the story of what they did. Extraordinary.

As for Gore, there were books and articles written about that for years after 2000. A year after the Supreme Court anointed Bush the NYT provided an analysis showing that Gore's attempts to overturn the election would not have succeeded, mainly because the different districts used different standards on what qualified as a clear choice, however, if a single standard was applied across Florida, he may have been the winner. Did you miss this? Michael Moore didn't, he mangled it for inclusion in Stupid White Men, and for balance Ann Coulter did the same thing to the same analysis in Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right.

My fellow American,

The proof is in the pudding.

Banks are pretty ominous, IMO.

Anointed. LOL. Good one.

Ann Coulter... Don't get me started...



.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Where is Osama

Osama bin who? ;)

---

It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The proof is in the pudding.

Banks are pretty ominous, IMO.

Well then, I've been in the employee of what you consider an ominous organization for 8 months. When we discussed this same topic two years ago I was employed by an Open Source software company. I took the same line then as I do now. The company I work for does not shape my opinions on this matter.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

The proof is in the pudding.

Banks are pretty ominous, IMO.

Well then, I've been in the employee of what you consider an ominous organization for 8 months. When we discussed this same topic two years ago I was employed by an Open Source software company. I took the same line then as I do now. The company I work for does not shape my opinions on this matter.

That's fine, bobby,

Just saying. Lets not argue. Let's debate. I'll have more later to debate about. I see now our conversations have gone sour, which is fun for a little bit, but gets old after a short time.

Good evening, Sir.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

The proof is in the pudding.

Banks are pretty ominous, IMO.

Well then, I've been in the employee of what you consider an ominous organization for 8 months. When we discussed this same topic two years ago I was employed by an Open Source software company. I took the same line then as I do now. The company I work for does not shape my opinions on this matter.

That's fine, bobby,

Just saying. Lets not argue. Let's debate. I'll have more later to debate about. I see now our conversations have gone sour, which is fun for a little bit, but gets old after a short time.

Good evening, Sir.

Gone sour? Perhaps requesting details about my background while not providing any of your own got us here. Maybe it was the implication that I am somehow in the pocket of "dark forces", because I object so strongly to the suggestion that the US Gov't is directly responsible for the deaths of friends and colleagues that day. Whatever your reasons to impune my character I have never done the same to you, indeed in a previous post I've defended you, why it that?

From my side all I did was ask for some physical evidence consistent with whatever theory you chose to put forward.

I want to get all the points you have to debate, which seem to be:

1) video evidence of a "suspicious" looking fire in one corner of WTC2.
2) video evidence of the collapse of WTC7 which looks similar to another video of a controlled demolition.
3) several hypotheses based on the video evidence.

Is there more than this? The symmetrical collapse of WTC 7?
That's a function of the angle of the footage used by the Truthers, here you can see that the building started to collapse 5 seconds before the Truthers images start, and that's by moving the vantage point from ground level on West Street to an elevated point more directly north of the building. It's a shame there is no footage of the collapse from the south side of WTC 7, as that would probably end this thread, one way or the other.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Oh boy, is there more,

Busy today but will have something for us to chew on later.

Questioning your motives and affiliations was rude. I'm sure I was not the only one wondering, though. As for me... I am a simple man who wonders; how 3 planes could have been allowed to do what they did; how reports were dismissed about eminent attacks by everyone; how there was an air force drill that day at that time which was based on the exact scenario unfolding in reality; how the President denied there being studies on this kind of attack; how video evidence of the Pentagon impact have been suppressed; how we assumed it was Osama before we had proof; how Osama was reportedly treated at a US medical facility in the Mid East; how some of the hijackers are documented as getting training at US installations; how some claim the voices recorded on one of the planes had Israeli accents; how indeed.

Have a nice day.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Oh boy, is there more,

Busy today but will have something for us to chew on later.

Questioning your motives and affiliations was rude. I'm sure I was not the only one wondering, though. As for me... I am a simple man who wonders; how 3 planes could have been allowed to do what they did; how reports were dismissed about eminent attacks by everyone; how there was an air force drill that day at that time which was based on the exact scenario unfolding in reality; how the President denied there being studies on this kind of attack; how video evidence of the Pentagon impact have been suppressed; how we assumed it was Osama before we had proof; how Osama was reportedly treated at a US medical facility in the Mid East; how some of the hijackers are documented as getting training at US installations; how some claim the voices recorded on one of the planes had Israeli accents; how indeed.

Have a nice day.

I'm not so sure that reports of imminent attacks were dismissed by everyone, certainly there's at least one former senior member of the Bush administration that was bringing raising this as a serious issue in the months before 9/11. It's a tragedy that these reports weren't passed to US air traffic control, so that they could've responded sooner and perhaps called on the air force earlier to assist. I'm not sure the President denied the studies, though I've noted in another post that the White House spokesperson did, maybe because the spokesperson was not aware of their existence. I'm not overly surprised that footage of the attack on the Pentagon was surpressed, but then I come from a nation where the Gov't is routinely secretive, perhaps this aspect is troubling for some.

For the Isreali connection, there are a number of anti-Semitic sites out there making all sorts of claims. At least some of the eyewitness evidence suggests that the attackers were of Arabic origin. Given that the administration was able to establish the passengers on all the flights fairly quickly that morning, and some had already been observed by our allies as linked with Al Qaeda, given Al Qaeda's previous attack on the Trade Center, and given relatively recent (at that time) other attacks by Al Qaeda on US embassies and the Cole, it probably wasn't such a leap to suggest Osama's organization was the leading contender as culprit.

Enjoy your day.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

Woops,

Wrong link.


http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JLobdillThermiteChemistryWTC


Thank you for catching that.

Have you forgotten that the jets had many canisters of pure oxygen on board.
These would have cause the red hot iron to burn like thermite similar to a cutting torch.

For tower 7, I have seen many controlled demolitions of buildings and they all have used delay charges, they never come down in one piece like tower 7.

One piece?

Have you watched the video of it falling lately?

Scroll down if not.


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Was it a United Airlines plane that hit the tower?

Video

Plane footage at end. Testimonies throughout.


C-Span (CSPAN) covered this American Scholars Symposium on 911 in Los Angeles.

Video

91 min

Scholars for 9/11 Truth

http://911scholars.org/


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

No comments on at least that custom gray aircraft that hit the second tower? The plane with the special underbelly compartment?

Was it a United Airlines plane that hit the tower?

Video

Plane footage at end. Testimonies throughout.


C-Span (CSPAN) covered this American Scholars Symposium on 911 in Los Angeles.

Video

91 min

Scholars for 9/11 Truth

http://911scholars.org/


.

---

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

No comments on at least that custom gray aircraft that hit the second tower? The plane with the special underbelly compartment?

Was it a United Airlines plane that hit the tower?

Video

Plane footage at end. Testimonies throughout.


C-Span (CSPAN) covered this American Scholars Symposium on 911 in Los Angeles.

Video

91 min

Scholars for 9/11 Truth

http://911scholars.org/


.

I'm sure if I gave it more than 5 minutes I'd find a ton of similar links with witnesses saying it was a regular passenger aircraft, but I don't really have to. What you're suggesting here is simply fantastic. That the real flights were somehow diverted to another place, the passengers killed, actors then made a series of calls from the passengers cell phones and the plane's phones to friends and family, planes operated by remote control then took the place of the real flights to fly into the buildings so as to present an excuse for demolition. For this all the evidence you present is a couple of people saying they didn't think the plane they saw was a passenger plane, together with some blurry footage.

Nobody has come forward saying they planted the demolition charges, nobody saw charges being planted and no physical evidence has ever been found that charges were present. Nobody has come forward suggesting that they received what they believed to be a fake call from an actor, none of the actors have come forward, none of the executioners have come forward.

Then there's the single comment from one of FDNY's number talking about a couple of small fires on floor 78. If the fires were small why did people jump? What was to stop those in the towers making their way down to escape? Were they also executed? Were the phone calls from the people in the towers also faked? What about their executioners? How did they manage to escape? Again no evidence needed to suggest this was so, but who cares about evidence?

I'm not saying the above is impossible, but we need more than the observations of a few people with who knows what kind of vantage point. The "free-fall" collapse doesn't stand up to the slightest examination, none of the towers collapsed at free fall speed (no matter how many times the truthers say they did). "Pull" has already been pulled, no supporting evidence that it's ever used interchangeably with explosive controlled demolition. Fortunately you haven't gone down the alien weapons, or nuclear bomb avenues, but the one you are attempting to lead us down is similarly lacking in credible evidence.

---

I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

[quote]No comments on at least that custom gray aircraft that hit the second tower? The plane with the special underbelly compartment?

[quote]Was it a United Airlines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3AwEz0K-UI&feature=relatedplane that hit the tower?

Video


i am sorry to comment that but the lady in that video would had not known the difference between airplane or helicopter, in same page on youtube,
you get this, first , do not edit the videos and do not put some lame music on background, in middle of that video you can still see the twin engine
of that plane, the rest of the video is pointed to show only one engine, i don´t know what they were trying to prove but please not this way.

second plane with lame music
( 0:59-1:02 clearly normal twin engine plane)