I only have a three day cache and I have had no problems keeping the farm working although, It did come close once.


Not sure who said it but they hit the nail square on the head as to why people join up and shortly there after, uninstall boinc or ignore it. LACK OF UNDERSTANDABLE SCIENCE!! Look at the science stats page for example. Matt has added a cool graphic to it.. call me stupid if you want but.. ermmm...

ok.. we have 650,000,000 plus pulses and this and that..
I know what it means.. but what about newbies? The Seti staff is too tied up with other issues to deal with the maintenance of the pages here.
I tell you, If I could do a graphics for the science stats, Id add some bar graphs showing what was discovered today, over the week and over the last year.
More over, Id have a map showing what areas in the sky are being crunched.
I have said this before.. the overall feel of this site needs a face lift.

I wonder if there is a way to form a "Seti Site Design Team", recrute people with very good knowledge in php/mySQL/html/css/java or individuals in each respective language (that will donatate their time) and get to work on building a mirror site on a test server. I think it would solve issues if a second group called the "Site Approval Team" was formed to decide on issues like the general 'motif' or 'theme' of the new pages and assign the 'design team' the tasks to get the the pages done. Something like.. the design team decides on a overhead, rollover, drop down menu system and tells the 'design team' to get to work on it' Ok so they get to work but have an argument over say... John thinks his menu is better than Michelle's. It would be the approval teams responsibility to study and select the best 'menu' based on its 'feel' I.E ease of use and general looks. END OF STORY.. Dont like it.. you dont have to be part of the design project if you can't deal with a rejected idea!! That makes me think also that a basic working set of rules needs to be created for both the 'Approval Team' and the 'Design Team'
I think the staff.. I.E. Matt, Eric and the rest, should NOT be a member of either team BUT will have the ABSOLUTE say on weather or not a page is exceptable. The prime directive being.. 'NO objectionable content' "EXTREMLY KID FRIENDLY!" The Seti Staff will need to participate in helping sort things out, like how to get to some of the data or may be asked to export the data via XML for use on the new pages. Basicly, they would be acting as 'contributers'. There are also SECURITY ISSUES that will have to be delt with. For example, the data containing user info.. passwords... the forums data sets as well as the science data. I recommend setting up a second set of data bases with the same structures as the originals but with just enough fictitious data to work with.. Also.. the mirror forums could be used wisely by the design team, approval team and the Seti Staff to discus design issues while testing prior to publication of the new site.
When the design team, approval team and the Seti staff says 'It's ready to publish' the new Site will just appear all at once...
....A hush fell apond the crowd as they gasp in amazement over the outstanding ease of use, functionality and the brilliant use of colors of the new Seti@home!!

If the burden of maintaining the site was handed off to some responsable programmers and others, it would be one less burden on the Seti staff.
Thank you for reading...
Mike

I love the idea of a web dev team. I can provide a test server. I think that S@H should 'outsource' some
tasks to volunteers (an even greater idea would be to use the BOSSA platform that's in dev for stardust @ home to grant credit for this). anyone like this idea?

---

I'm a Prefectionist ;)

I'm too laxy to look it up, but when did the credit drop? When I was crunching using the KWSN code (it must be a while back) my 3.2GHz Prescott was getting a RAC near 1000. With the new AK port crunch times have reduced but I forecast (based on credit and wu completion times) that this same machine will only get a RAC near 1000 even though the crunch times are over 25% faster than when I started SETI again a week ago. Here is the BOINCstats chart for my SETI credit. I know there is better credit out there....

Looks like this is another reason why people are leaving / have left SETI@home.

Hence the reason for developers aiming for credit parity.
People that are interested in the science crunch regardless of the credits. Those that crunch just for the stats will go where ever the greatest credits/hour can be made.
If it's the same amongst all projects then even those that crunch just for stats will then need to decide which project to chose, based just on what interests them as the returns would be the same regardless of which project they choose.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

They cut the heck out of credit last summer it seems and stole back all Simon had given us...Seems that is about the time he left. The project managers don't seem to mind running people off. They will just send out more E-Mails asking you to return...

AFAICR they used, with permission, optimised code in the general client when they released Seti Enhanced.
The credits/hour return was reduced so as not to cause an exodous of stats hunters from other projects.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Hence the reason for developers aiming for credit parity.
People that are interested in the science crunch regardless of the credits. Those that crunch just for the stats will go where ever the greatest credits/hour can be made.

LOOOOOOOOOL !!!

That's why DA tried to cheat/manipulate the stats sites and started spreadeing a lie about RS
claiming way to much credits ... after at least 5 time that he's been proven WRONG. he finally acknowlegded he messed up :)

And so on ... proven FACT.

If it's the same amongst all projects then even those that crunch just for stats will then need to decide which project to chose, based just on what interests them as the returns would be the same regardless of which project they choose.

Well not if it's manipulated as DA tried it ! Manipulating stats pages on what he thinks is right... well ...
Go figure for yourself .. if you need prove for what i just posted here... feel free to contact me and i'll show you how DA and staff try to manipulate ...

---

Join BOINC United now!

I'm too laxy to look it up, but when did the credit drop? When I was crunching using the KWSN code (it must be a while back) my 3.2GHz Prescott was getting a RAC near 1000. With the new AK port crunch times have reduced but I forecast (based on credit and wu completion times) that this same machine will only get a RAC near 1000 even though the crunch times are over 25% faster than when I started SETI again a week ago. Here is the BOINCstats chart for my SETI credit. I know there is better credit out there....

Looks like this is another reason why people are leaving / have left SETI@home.

Hence the reason for developers aiming for credit parity.
People that are interested in the science crunch regardless of the credits. Those that crunch just for the stats will go where ever the greatest credits/hour can be made.
If it's the same amongst all projects then even those that crunch just for stats will then need to decide which project to chose, based just on what interests them as the returns would be the same regardless of which project they choose.

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just plain stupid.

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just stupid.

The stupidety lies in the volunteers adopting optimized code into the stock app... that's the cause why we all got cheated here again ...

Good thing is that not all prjects are that messed up like this here... i'm thinking about throughing it all in the junk... once again ... why was i so stupid to start that porting to linux thing again ?

Especially while 3 other projects are on my list ... nqueens, 3x+1 and milkyway ...

seems to be some kind of stupid habit ... if feel ashamed for that one :(

---

Join BOINC United now!

The stupidety lies in the volunteers adopting optimized code into the stock app... that's the cause why we all got cheated here again ...

I agree.....let's make sure this does not happen again.

The stupidety lies in the volunteers adopting optimized code into the stock app... that's the cause why we all got cheated here again ...

I agree.....let's make sure this does not happen again.

unfortunately i do have a strong feeling that it'll happen again ... just look back what happened before, we all get screwed... once again although someone told us that our credit will be raised ... now we got lowered ... will you all let that happen again?

---

Join BOINC United now!

They cut the heck out of credit last summer it seems and stole back all Simon had given us...Seems that is about the time he left. The project managers don't seem to mind running people off. They will just send out more E-Mails asking you to return...

AFAICR they used, with permission, optimised code in the general client when they released Seti Enhanced.
The credits/hour return was reduced so as not to cause an exodous of stats hunters from other projects.

So in return there was a rush away to other projects...

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

AFAICR they used, with permission, optimised code in the general client when they released Seti Enhanced.
The credits/hour return was reduced so as not to cause an exodous of stats hunters from other projects.

So in return there was a rush away to other projects...

Hence the need for credit parity so those that crunch for the stats & not for the science don't hop between projects.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

Either my medications are taking hold of me or.........

My browser cache is messed up or................

My memory is failing..............

There seems to be a lot of posts missing now............

Either my medications are taking hold of me or.........

My browser cache is messed up or................

My memory is failing..............

There seems to be a lot of posts missing now............

That may be another reason people leave...Shhhh

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just plain stupid.

Uh, no.

Private citizens optimized the default SETI application. People using the optimized app. got a credit "bonus" for running the optimized app.

Those same individuals gave the optimized code to the project, which then incorporated many of the optimizations into the standard app.

Since the standard app. by definition should produce 100 credits/day on the "standard" hardware (see this definition) and the standard app. was now much faster, credit was brought back in line with the definition.

This has been argued ad-infinitum. Either the cobblestone has a standard meaning or it doesn't. If it has meaning, then the standard machine should produce 100 cobblestones per day running the standard app. regardless of how optimized that standard application is.

---

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just plain stupid.

Uh, no.

Private citizens optimized the default SETI application. People using the optimized app. got a credit "bonus" for running the optimized app.

Those same individuals gave the optimized code to the project, which then incorporated many of the optimizations into the standard app.

Since the standard app. by definition should produce 100 credits/day on the "standard" hardware (see this definition) and the standard app. was now much faster, credit was brought back in line with the definition.

This has been argued ad-infinitum. Either the cobblestone has a standard meaning or it doesn't. If it has meaning, then the standard machine should produce 100 cobblestones per day running the standard app. regardless of how optimized that standard application is.

So other words...The new app will be a waste of time as they will just lower the credits again?

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just plain stupid.

Uh, no.

Private citizens optimized the default SETI application. People using the optimized app. got a credit "bonus" for running the optimized app.

Those same individuals gave the optimized code to the project, which then incorporated many of the optimizations into the standard app.

Since the standard app. by definition should produce 100 credits/day on the "standard" hardware (see this definition) and the standard app. was now much faster, credit was brought back in line with the definition.

This has been argued ad-infinitum. Either the cobblestone has a standard meaning or it doesn't. If it has meaning, then the standard machine should produce 100 cobblestones per day running the standard app. regardless of how optimized that standard application is.

So other words...The new app will be a waste of time as they will just lower the credits again?

If, at some future time, SETI makes Alex Kan's optimizations part of the standard application, then we get a faster standard application, and the credit should be adjusted to make that standard application produce 100 cobblestones per day on the reference machine.

My understanding, from watching the threads (especially JDWhale's work on SSE2) is that these optimizations require CPU features that aren't on every processor, and it seems unlikely that SETI would "lock out" participants by requiring a higher feature set.

Those running optimized apps. start with standard, install an optimized application, get a (justified) advantage from the optimizations, and when the standard app. is improved, you lose some of that advantage.

Those running standard apps. start with standard, get a faster standard application, and their credit stays level.

---

...
My understanding, from watching the threads (especially JDWhale's work on SSE2) is that these optimizations require CPU features that aren't on every processor, and it seems unlikely that SETI would "lock out" participants by requiring a higher feature set.

JDWhale's substitute intrinsic macros are SSE, so those changes will reach further back. In addition, there are structural improvements in Alex Kan's code which will provide some level of improvement for my 200 MHz Pentium MMX or your VIA C3.

Those running optimized apps. start with standard, install an optimized application, get a (justified) advantage from the optimizations, and when the standard app. is improved, you lose some of that advantage.

Those running standard apps. start with standard, get a faster standard application, and their credit stays level.

The cross-project credit rate comparisons include all hosts which have done work for more than one project since the credit_per_cpu_second feature was added. I suspect that those who are particularly concerned about credit may have tried out other projects more often, so have more effect on that comparison than typical participants.

In any case, it is the intent of open source to have improvements incorporate back into the stock code, and I intend to keep that feedback working. The goal is to get the work done, and although credits can be fun I simply am unable to really understand why they become so important to some participants.

                                                              Joe

In any case, it is the intent of open source to have improvements incorporate back into the stock code, and I intend to keep that feedback working. The goal is to get the work done, and although credits can be fun I simply am unable to really understand why they become so important to some participants.

                                                              Joe

[/quote]
For me I am so busy with life that this competition is one of the few I can have at the moment...I know it is sad.....work competition is really stressful at the moment and this gives a bit of fun.

---

Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!

In any case, it is the intent of open source to have improvements incorporate back into the stock code, and I intend to keep that feedback working. The goal is to get the work done, and although credits can be fun I simply am unable to really understand why they become so important to some participants.

                                                              Joe

I have to agree that the primary goal is to get the work done. The reason credits have become so important is that there is NOTHING ELSE here to gauge your own work or the work of the entire project. NOTHING!!

I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not), but when private citizens optimise those apps to reduce crunch times and then have the project REDUCE the credit is just plain stupid.

Uh, no.

Private citizens optimized the default SETI application. People using the optimized app. got a credit "bonus" for running the optimized app.

Those same individuals gave the optimized code to the project, which then incorporated many of the optimizations into the standard app.

Since the standard app. by definition should produce 100 credits/day on the "standard" hardware (see this definition) and the standard app. was now much faster, credit was brought back in line with the definition.

This has been argued ad-infinitum. Either the cobblestone has a standard meaning or it doesn't. If it has meaning, then the standard machine should produce 100 cobblestones per day running the standard app. regardless of how optimized that standard application is.

As I said "I'm all for project supplied applications claiming parity amongst the different projects (optimised or not)...."

So if I run the stock SETI app then I'll get the same credits/day here as on another project running their stock app (like MalariaControl.net)?

I have to agree that the primary goal is to get the work done. The reason credits have become so important is that there is NOTHING ELSE here to gauge your own work or the work of the entire project. NOTHING!!

In which case the number of credits you get doesn't matter when compared to other projects.
Unfortunately though there are those for whom the number of credits is what counts, not the work done, hence the necessity to keep parity between projects.

---

Grant
Darwin NT