So we all agree we love democracy, except when the result is against what we want.
I'm reminded of Bush telling the Palestinians that all aid to their country would be cut off if they didn't hold elections.

Well they held elections and democratically elected Hamas to form the government.

All aid was cut anyway.
Why? Because the republican administration didn't like the result of the election.

It seems the will of the people and the democratic proccess are NOT the priority after all.

You've gotta love these guys lurking behind the veneer of righteousness and democracy for all.

Gremlins in our voting machines but a perfectly legit election in Palestine. Liberalism at it's finest once again.

The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is you DO get to decide what organizations you provide aid to, and those who support terrorism, like Hamas, are not on the list.

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The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is you DO get to decide what organizations you provide aid to, and those who support terrorism, like Hamas, are not on the list.

The condition for aid was democratic elections had to be held. period.

One of the problems with democracy is sometimes the elites don't get what they want.

Apparently, the way to make up for that is to starve the peasants into submission.

The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is you DO get to decide what organizations you provide aid to, and those who support terrorism, like Hamas, are not on the list.

The condition for aid was democratic elections had to be held. period.

One of the problems with democracy is sometimes the elites don't get what they want.

Apparently, the way to make up for that is to starve the peasants into submission.

God forbid they start a revolution and fend for themselves if they don't like how they're treated. Worked pretty well for America....

Sooner or later you'll figure out people don't deserve a free meal simply because they were born. Life takes hard work, sacrifice, AND ambition!

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The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is [snip]

That you have enough resources to make things appear as you want them to be rather than as they actually are... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is [snip]

That you have enough resources to make things appear as you want them to be rather than as they actually are... ;)

Oh, Jeffrey . . . are you becoming one of those "conspiracy theory" nutcases?

So, where were the moon landings really filmed?

The great thing about being a "have" rather than a "have not" is [snip]

That you have enough resources to make things appear as you want them to be rather than as they actually are... ;)

Precisely why my ancestors left Europe. It's not like relocation is unheard of, especially when there are extenuating circumstances!!

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The First Amendment guarantees the right of the city council to express their opinions as they see fit.

I would agree, on the condition that we accept that "express" tends to mean "Verbally" (speeches, newspaper ads, T.V. ads, make a movie like Sicko, etc.). I almost had a problem with such a general statement as "express... as they see fit", until I saw...

The problem arises when they take direct action to facilitate interference with a federal agency pursing legitimate activities

I agree: "Direct action" (For simplicity in my comparison, let's assume 'Physical action') is a problem, since it precludes[/sidesteps] 'Reasoned Arguments'; the 'best democratic ideal' is winning over your opponent by Logic rather than Force- with force, you haven't captured their mind(s).

The hypocrisy is laid bare when they say, in effect: "We don't want you to interfere in our city, but we'll take your money..."

I have no problem with their symbolic resolutions regarding the Marine Corps.

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The hypocrisy is laid bare when they say, in effect: "We don't want you to interfere in our city, but we'll take your money..."

When can we expect our tax collecting government to allow college recruiters and headhunters onto military installations... ;)

But they do, well in the the USAF, my friend Linda was recruited on camp to go to San Diego State and study Aerospace engineering, in the Education centre, about 6 months before her retirement.

Hmmmm - let's see, as of this fall for California Servicemans Opportunity Colleges were: Alliant International University American Graduate University American River College Antelope Valley College Argosy University/Orange County Argosy University/San Francisco Bay Art Institute of California - Los Angeles Art Institute of California - Orange County Art Institute of California - San Diego Art Institute of California - San Francisco Aviation & Electronic Schools of America Azusa Pacific University Bakersfield College Barstow College California Coast University California College San Diego California Design College California Lutheran University California Maritime Academy California National University for Advanced Studies California Polytechnic State University - San Luis Obispo California State Polytechnic University - Pomona California State University - Bakersfield California State University - Channel Islands California State University - Dominguez Hills California State University - East Bay California State University - Fullerton California State University - Long Beach California State University - Los Angeles California State University - Monterey Bay California State University - Northridge California State University - Sacramento California State University - San Bernardino California State University - San Marcos California State University - Stanislaus California State University, Fresno Cerritos College Cerro Coso Community College Chaffey College Chapman University - University College Citrus College City College of San Francisco Coastline Community College Cogswell Polytechnical College Coleman College College of the Canyons College of the Sequoias Copper Mountain College Cosumnes River College Crafton Hills College Cuyamaca College De Anza College DeVry University - Fremont Campus DeVry University - Fresno DeVry University - Inland Empire-Colton DeVry University - Irvine Campus DeVry University - Long Beach Campus DeVry University - Pomona Campus DeVry University - Sacramento DeVry University - San Diego CampusDeVry University - San Francisco Campus DeVry University - San Jose DeVry University - Sherman Oaks Campus Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising Feather River College Fielding Graduate University Foothill College Fresno City College Gavilan College Golden Gate University Golden West College Grossmont College Hartnell College Heald College Henley-Putnam University Holy Names University Hope International University Humboldt State University Irvine Valley College ITT Technical Institute - Lathrop ITT Technical Institute - San Bernardino ITT Technical Institute - San Diego John F. Kennedy University Los Angeles Pierce College Los Angeles Trade-Technical College Maric College - North County Campus Merced College MiraCosta College Monterey Institute of International Studies Monterey Peninsula College Moorpark College Mount St. Mary’s College National Polytechnic College of Engineering and Oceaneerin National University Newschool of Architecture and Design Orange Coast College Oxnard College Pacific Graduate School of Psychology Palomar College Patten University Riverside Community College District San Diego City College San Diego Mesa College San Diego Miramar College San Diego State University San Francisco State University San Joaquin Delta College Solano Community College Sonoma State University Southern California Institute of Technology Southwestern College Taft College Touro University International University of La Verne University of San Diego - Schools of Business Administration and Education
Victor Valley College West Hills Community College District - Lemoore Campus West Los Angeles College Yuba Community College = Of course these are just California schools. Google Servicemans Opportunity Colleges

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

But other than the ones I just listed I guess the military just shoo's them away.

Maybe we should have the Army drag some cannons and shoot them in front of city hall in berkely ever city council meeting. That wouldn't be disruptive would it?

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Man - a creature made at the end of the week's work when God was tired. - Mark Twain

Maybe we should have the Army drag some cannons and shoot them in front of city hall in berkely ever city council meeting. That wouldn't be disruptive would it?

That is not such a well thought out notion.

You would stand by while the military intimidated elected councils? Do you appreciate the depths to which American freedoms and democracy have fallen?

Well, on second thought, that idea could be helpful in waking people up to the fact that they have conceided control of their governmental institutions.

What the hell, fire when ready!

You would stand by while the military intimidated elected councils?

Why not? Aren't you standing by while the city council tries to intimidate the military?

Quoted from the original post: One of the two resolutions passed by the Berkeley City Council last night granted a parking spot in front of the Marine Recruiting Center to be used by anti-military activists to harass Marine recruiters. The anti-military activists would not need to apply for a sound permit for the next six months - allowing them free reign to disrupt the day-to-day operations by the Marines.

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You can't seem to understand that the military is not in charge, they are the servant.
The elected council is in authority and makes laws while the military is to do as it is instructed.

When the military in any other country acts as you seem to be wanting here, we would call it a coup. But for some strange reason, you would happily accept this inside your own country.

Time for a reality check dude. Get real and stop with the infantile posturing.

You can't seem to understand that the military is not in charge, they are the servant.

The military does NOT serve the city council.

The elected council is in authority and makes laws while the military is to do as it is instructed.

Again, the military does NOT serve the city council anymore than the FBI answers to the mayor.

When the military in any other country acts as you seem to be wanting here, we would call it a coup. But for some strange reason, you would happily accept this inside your own country.

Actually it was not my suggestion. I merely pointed out ANOTHER glaring example of your hypocrisy.

Time for a reality check dude. Get real and stop with the infantile posturing.

I'll be sure to let you know when I start taking advice from idiots and liars.

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When the military in any other country acts as you seem to be wanting here, we would call it a coup.

Actually, it already happened in america... And yes, it was the coup of coups...

Welcome to the military industrial complex... Don't want to play along? Don't expect any funding from da big wigs... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Quoted from the original post: One of the two resolutions passed by the Berkeley City Council last night granted a parking spot in front of the Marine Recruiting Center to be used by anti-military activists to harass Marine recruiters. The anti-military activists would not need to apply for a sound permit for the next six months - allowing them free reign to disrupt the day-to-day operations by the Marines.

Now change the scenario to be:

"[Insert city here] council last night granted a parking spot near to the local abortion clinic to be used by anti-abortion activists to harass women and couples who attempt to enter the clinic. The anti-abortion activists would not need to apply for any additional permits for the next six months - allowing them free reign to disrupt the day-to-day operations of the abortion clinic."

See how long *THAT* will last....

They've gone insane, that's what......

I recall in past years the protestors against he beloved United States Marine corps against their "toys for tots" program.

For those out of the loop or non American, the toys for tots program is a charity drive taken up for poor children by the USMC...(Dogbytes probably would have endorsed this.....and knowing him he helped)


It gives toys to children in poverty on Christmas.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

UPDATE TO THE BERKELEY INSANITY:

Outnumbered Marines and supporters stand their ground and fend off anti-American attack by traitors!

Melanie Morgan reporting in from Bezerkley:

Pro-troop demonstration still going strong -but here is my after action report after 15 hours on the frontlines. If I were a headline writer I would describe the situation as CHAOS and ANARCHY in BERKELEY today. Not by our side -by the Marine haters and American traitors.

The cops were openly hostile toward the people who showed up at 5:00 a.m., never stepping in to protect the patriots from the assaults that took place against elderly folks, Gold Star parents, Blue Star families and Joe and Jane Citizen who were waving the flags and showing their pride in the Marines.

The police allowed hundreds of Berkeley High School kids (accompanied by their teachers) to gather with CodePink, receive their mandatory face masks and F---k Bush t-shirts, and allowed them to mill around our PA where they tried to cut the power cords to the system. Berkeley police repeatedly allowed CodePink to violate our permits, and never lifted a finger to stop their crowd from interfering with our activities until the very end, after we screamed blue bloody h&ll.

When Catherine Moy, the Executive Director of MAF called the police to tell them a riot was erupting in the early hours -THEY HUNG UP on HER.

Cat called the Highway Patrol, who referred her back to the Berkeley police
-WHO HUNG UP on HER.
It was positively shameful.

Move America Forward's attorney Jim Sweeney took depositions from ten people who were assaulted by CodePink, International A.N.S.W.E.R. and socialists who showed up en masse.

The City Council has been notified by fax that we are filing a federal lawsuit for deprivation of our civil rights. We didn't start this fight, but we are d*mn sure gonna finish it.

The pro-troops demonstration is still going strong at 7:30 p.m. PST, with all streets around the Berkeley City Council closed off as the CodePinkos continue to receive preferential treatment by the Berkeley PD.

Move America Forward's sound permit was turned off at 5:00 in the afternoon, while the Pinkos were allowed to use their system to sing Kumbaya and other 60's peace chants. Berkeley, the birthplace of free speech, is now officially the center of intolerant hatred for anyone who sticks up for the men and women who are fighting and dying to protect THEIR rights.

Before our sound system was nearly sabotaged, a young man posing as a pro-troop supporter asked to speak to the crowd. I allowed him to talk (about his family's 'service', when he started spewing obscenities about the 'illegal, immoral, unjust war'. I grabbed the microphone back, and he tried to clobber me with it. Gold Star Dad Mark Crowley knocked him to the ground, where he found a faceful of dirt to keep him company.

Our side sang God Bless America, America the beautiful and other stirring songs that seemed to enrage the elderly commies. 25,000 petitions were collected by Move America Forward with the help of other pro-troops groups like Gathering of Eagles, EaglesUp, Vets for Freedom and others.

There were Eagles EVERYWHERE today.
And Patriot Guard Riders.
And American Legion vets.
And members of the Military Order of the Purple Heart.
5,000 petition signatures were also collected by an organization in Washington headed by Nicholas Provenzano, who flew out to Berkeley on the red-eye to deliver to the City Council announcing an economic boycott of Berkeley until it reverses it shameful treatment of our Marines.

Red, White and Blue Americans rushed to our side from Atlanta, Georgia, New York, Pennsylvania, Colorado, San Diego, and other parts of the United States. Our crowds numbered into the thousands throughout the day. So gratifying. So humbling.

People of all ages, races, and political backgrounds honored our active duty service members serving in Iraq and Afghanistan, and in other parts around the world. We spoke of the sacrifice and the nobility of the military families who support their sons and daughters, husbands and wives. And we gave a HOOO-AWW especially to our Marines, who find themselves prevented from speaking while under assault, not from a evil enemy abroad, but from the insurgents here at home.

We should be proud and exhilarated by the turn-out and passion of so many people who set aside their lives, showed up, and spoke out.

I don't know what will happen with the Berkeley City Council, but I would be you that dollars to donuts, they'll issue some mealy-mouthed WE SUPPORT the TROOPS, JUST NOT their MISSION crap, and then keep in place all the restrictions that make recruiting on Shattuck avenue all but impossible.

I have no idea how the media will portray this historic event -I can only tell you that 3 TV helicopters were overhead almost all day long, every major media outlet in the Bay Area, as well as national TV and print reporters-but OUR people spoke eloquently, passionately, and with conviction about the hateful attitude that the City of Berkeley has displayed toward the USMC.

Warmest,
Melanie

To Robert: With all due respect, this is an example of a radical fringe group that has conscripted the elected officials of Berkeley to advance their agenda. While they certainly have the right to speak their minds, they do not have the right to actively infringe upon the free-speech rights of those who disagree with them...

You can't seem to understand that the military is not in charge, they are the servant.
The elected council is in authority and makes laws while the military is to do as it is instructed.

The CITY council of Berkeley California does not have any authority over the activities of the USMC, a military arm of the FEDERAL government. Even the recruiting station out of which the Marines work is considered federal property and under federal jurisdiction. The Civil War settled the question of federal precedence over local government...

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Orwell

The CITY council of Berkeley California does not have any authority over the activities of the USMC, a military arm of the FEDERAL government. Even the recruiting station out of which the Marines work is considered federal property and under federal jurisdiction. The Civil War settled the question of federal precedence over local government...

If I didn't get my point across clearly enough, I apologize and will try again.

I wanted to point out that one body was elected to pass legislation and act as it sees fit in the interests of those who elected them, while the other has no power to act autonomously and must adhere to and follow orders from it's ranking leadership who in turn receive their instructions from Washington.


I was not implying that the USMC was under the jurisdiction of the Berkeley council even though in rereading the post I can see where I should have expanded a little bit in my explanation.

The hypocrisy is laid bare when they say, in effect: "We don't want you to interfere in our city, but we'll take your money..."

When can we expect our tax collecting government to allow college recruiters and headhunters onto military installations... ;)

My base had an education office and would get me in touch with counselors at any college I wanted. Didn't yours?

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Official Abuser of Boinc Buttons...
And no good credit hound!