Are your feelings hurt because no one wants to talk about narcissism?
Too bad.

I've already stated to another of your brethren, it's not my Harley.
I just get to ride it when my brother lets me.

I don't mind talking about narcissism. Go for it. Knock yourself out. Insofar as narcissism is related to hedonism then this is the proper place for that discussion. Hedonism is a brand of egoism that I do not endorse. It's a type of irrational egoism. I only endorse the rational egoism which may be most familiar to some by the term 'enlightened self interest'.

But you can't move the goal posts, Robert. You can't compare apples and oranges.

I'll argue against philosophic hedonism as thoroughly as I argue against every coneceivable brand of altruism. The only reason I don't invest much time in refuting it is that it's a belief that almost noone holds and is therefore unimportant in the grand scheme of things.

It's your altruism I'm after.

As for your Harley. Enjoy it......when you get to ride it........and enjoy it SELFISHLY.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

How does John or Jane Doe evaluate a CEO they will never meet but must live by edicts passed down from.

Become a shareholder? That, if you are like the majority of Americans you already are.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Do you even read what you are arguing against?????

It's not my Harley. I do not own a Harley. I have never owned a Harley.
I will not own a Harley in the foreseeable future.

How the hell does a shareholder evaluate a CEO any better than anyone on the street?
Is he going to pop in for a beer because I hold a thousand dollars worth of stock?
Will I be invited golfing, or out for a day on his yacht?

Give your head a shake.

How the hell does a shareholder evaluate a CEO any better than anyone on the street?
Is he going to pop in for a beer because I hold a thousand dollars worth of stock?
Will I be invited golfing, or out for a day on his yacht?

If you own enough shares then you betcha he/she'll invite to all sorts of things as you are his/her boss.

How we evaluate them is by ordering a copy of their prospectus (you don't have to be a shareholder to do that, they will send to anyone. most are now on websites anyway), it gives you all significant details relating to the companies hierachy. Also lists their previous companies and so you can research them aswell. if you feel cheeky ring them and ask random staff members what they think of them lol

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Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If you're going to post nonsense then at least have the decency to make it long winded nonsense.

Ah yes... The annoying tactic of the egoist... ;)

(When you don't have anything of substance to say, say a lot! It's a sure way of fooling the unlearned into thinking that you're smart.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

You think, yup thats exactly what the union is for, to stand up for the people. I say, take the responsibility and do it yourself.

Oddly enough it only takes a little bit of courage to get the gears of change moving.

I am one of several hundred people in the plant where I work...I am also a Union Steward there.

Now....Before I became a union steward...if I saw something that I thought could be made better...or something that could be done more efficiently...I would simply go into the Factory Manager's office and tell him.

Just the other day I let him know that they ( the management ) were having a HUGE credibility problem. I simply started off by telling him " You probably aren't going to like hearing this....". A lot of people think that if they are going to talk to " the boss " at all...it should be done while brown nosing and trying to impress the boss. Well...in some cases...the boss is more impressed by honesty than they are by sniveling.

Well...guess what.....he does appreciate it. Any manager or CEO worth his pay rate will listen to the people who work for him...even if they are only one among thousands.

Our factory manager actually likes the fact that I will step forward and tell him about the things I observe because ( in his words ) " We can't make things better if we don't know what people think is wrong ".

He also let me know that most of the time....people just clam up when he comes around. I understand that, but that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Couldn't agree with you more Knightmare. A little courage goes a long way and decent managers don't want yes men, they want people with ideas and a backbone.

Australians & Kiwi's are notorious for not giving a monkeys about authority. we respect people who we feel are deserving of our respect regardless of their profession or place in the hierachy. We never respect anyone just because they are the boss or have a perceived higher status. The average Aussie will just as happily tell the prime minister to sod off as he would tell a criminal too.

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Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

"We can't make things better if we don't know what people think is wrong"

Conversely, what I usually hear over and over and over and over and over again is:
'I'll have to look into that.' And of course, they NEVER actually do, and things NEVER change...

Managers only tell you what they think you want to hear to get through the moment... Feel fortunate that you have a good boss... I've been stuck with nothing but liars and cowards who hate me because I have the guts to stand up to them whereas they lack the guts to stand up to their boss... Hence, the constant 'jive talk'... ;)

(Managers don't look out for their people anymore, they only look out for themselves.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them...
Self fulfilling prophecies my friend.

Actually, it was Gods prophesy... And it's called persecution... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

If you own enough shares then you betcha he/she'll invite to all sorts of things as you are his/her boss.

How we evaluate them is by ordering a copy of their prospectus (you don't have to be a shareholder to do that, they will send to anyone. most are now on websites anyway), it gives you all significant details relating to the companies hierachy. Also lists their previous companies and so you can research them aswell. if you feel cheeky ring them and ask random staff members what they think of them lol

Dave H
I'm afraid we differ again.

Point one is mute as I, and everyone I know, doesn't have the cash to buy access to the CEO.
This is simply not an option for regular working people.

The prospectus says nothing about the CEO as a person, although I can guarantee it will paint even the sorriest wanker CEO as an inspiring leader.

As for random staff member's opinions, I think if they wanted the CEO dead they wouldn't say that over the phone to a stranger.

Could I take a moment to point out all the hoops some of you are asking people to jump through just to stay employed or to seek employment.
Sounds as if working people just can't win without the security provided by unions.

if you feel cheeky ring them and ask random staff members what they think of them

You know what would be even more 'cheeky'? If I ring them and ask for a list of the three most recent employees that no longer work for them... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I could supply a list of over two thousand from my last place of employment.
All good people and all gone.

All good people and all gone.

That trend started shortly after 911... Now corporate america is in quite the pickle...

That's what happens when they run off good people and harbor goons... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

I think it just got nastier after that. It started under Reagan, Mulroney and Thatcher.

If you own enough shares then you betcha he/she'll invite to all sorts of things as you are his/her boss.

How we evaluate them is by ordering a copy of their prospectus (you don't have to be a shareholder to do that, they will send to anyone. most are now on websites anyway), it gives you all significant details relating to the companies hierachy. Also lists their previous companies and so you can research them aswell. if you feel cheeky ring them and ask random staff members what they think of them lol

Dave H

The prospectus says nothing about the CEO as a person, although I can guarantee it will paint even the sorriest wanker CEO as an inspiring leader.

I should have been more specific, the prospectus gives you all their previous management experience, Most people know what companies have good reputations, also, people who no longer work with them are often more than willing to talk about them.

These are techniques I use to rate the management teams of the companies I invest in, if they are people whom I don't know.

I take your point that if you just want a 9 - 5 job then it's prob excessive. I just simply can't think that way as I've never been in that position. We are coming from two different mind sets but thats what is enjoyable about chatting to different people.

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Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I think it just got nastier after that.

Of course it did, they were hiding behing the 'smokescreen' of 'terrorism' so fewer people were paying attention... I'll never forget my coworker coming up to me with a newspaper to ask me what I thought the reason was as to why so many people were getting fired... My answer was quite simple, 'they probobly believed in God'... Wether my reason was accurate or not is irrelevant, the fact still remained, there were an awful lot of people losing their jobs... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them...
Self fulfilling prophecies my friend.

Actually, it was Gods prophesy... And it's called persecution... ;)

LOL. applause

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Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them...
Self fulfilling prophecies my friend.

Actually, it was Gods prophesy... And it's called persecution... ;)

LOL. applause

Do I hear a round of 'destiny is what you make it'?

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Every job you have the same thing happens...although its not you off course, it's them...
Self fulfilling prophecies my friend.

Actually, it was Gods prophesy... And it's called persecution... ;)

LOL. applause

Do I hear a round of 'destiny is what you make it'?

You hum it i'll play it:)

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Take responsibility, or take orders!

Never argue with idiots, they'll always drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

We are coming from two different mind sets but thats what is enjoyable about chatting to different people.

Actually, I don't find it enjoyable at all... I find it slightly annoying, but kinda fun... ;)

(Maybe if 'well to do' people actually had some good advice to offer rather than a bunch of put downs I'd feel a little differently.)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .