Well, I think Thorin is thinking about an "evolved" system. But personally I, too, doubt such a system can work without being corrupted by leaders striving for total power. It's probably just human - and this should make us all alert. Even if we live in a democracy those tendencies exist and right as we speak politicians try to cut down our freedom. A dictatorship is a dictatorship no matter if labeled as democracy or socialism or whatever.

[snip]
Even if we live in a democracy those tendencies exist and right as we speak politicians try to cut down our freedom. A dictatorship is a dictatorship no matter if labeled as democracy or socialism or whatever.

That's true. I lived in a self-labeled dictatorship ("Dictatorship of the proletariat" according to that constitution, but it was a dictatorship of one party and their tools), and even though Rush & R/B got another impression, I am against any dictatorship.
And I still doubt that the strive for ever more power is just human.

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Account frozen...

A dictatorship is a dictatorship no matter if labeled as democracy or socialism or whatever.

Amen.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

How it should all work--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives
in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take
it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified
at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,
[angels sing]
her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur
from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I,
Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power
just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just
because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd
put me away!
ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that,
eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me,
you saw it didn't you?

---

Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

How it should all work--

ARTHUR: Please, please good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
WOMAN: No one live there.
ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?
WOMAN: We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR: What?
DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decision of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,--
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: --but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more--
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN: Order, eh -- who does he think he is?
ARTHUR: I am your king!
WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN: Well, 'ow did you become king then?
ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,
[angels sing]
her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS: Listen -- strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: I mean, if I went around sayin' I was an empereror just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
ARTHUR: Shut up! Will you shut up!
DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR: Shut up!
DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!
DENNIS: Oh, what a give away. Did you here that, did you here that, eh? That's what I'm on about -- did you see him repressing me, you saw it didn't you?

Hear! Hear!

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Account frozen...

Thorin, almost everybody looks different and I guess there are also as much facets of the human mind/character. On top of that look and character/mind are probably to some degree influenced by the environment you grow up and to some degree congenital. IMHO it is therefore pretty hard to define what's human and what's not - for the individual. Setting up those standards for a society is necessary and works, but still the individual might not agree with them.

As an example: I don't think it's human to kick somebody in his face who lies unconsciously on the ground, but some hooligans might not agree. Same goes for striving for power - even if it might be just a minority (the majority is probably anyways not really caring about what's going on around them as long as they are not directly affected) it is still there. And those guys know how to use an elbow, people and other tools to get where they want.

[/quote]

Hear! Hear!
[/quote]

Thought you would like that.

---

Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.

Thorin, almost everybody looks different and I guess there are also as much facets of the human mind/character. On top of that look and character/mind are probably to some degree influenced by the environment you grow up and to some degree congenital. IMHO it is therefore pretty hard to define what's human and what's not - for the individual. Setting up those standards for a society is necessary and works, but still the individual might not agree with them.

As an example: I don't think it's human to kick somebody in his face who lies unconsciously on the ground, but some hooligans might not agree. Same goes for striving for power - even if it might be just a minority (the majority is probably anyways not really caring about what's going on around them as long as they are not directly affected) it is still there. And those guys know how to use an elbow, people and other tools to get where they want.

Been watching the news out of Germany, I see. Eventually, they pick on the wrong person and find out what a .45 lead injection feels like.

---

Hopefully the cosmos is not trying to reverse the charges.
Moderation in all things.