I didn't realise that the poorest of the poor could all afford a mobile phone.

Oh..you were just talking about Americans weren't you? The rest of the world that had their resources plundered so that all Americans can afford a mobile phone don't count I guess.

You didn't manage to realize a lot of things in this thread, not the least of which is the topic: American health care.

And no, they don't count. The U.S. will not provide them with health care, anymore than the U.K., or you and Gray and Thorin, or anyone else will.

Funny, even given your editorializing, one could easily make the case that the U.K. has been "plundering" (whatever the hell that means) the rest of the world so that the English can have their standard of living, since LONG before the U.S. ever got involved.

Well spotted Rush, The British Empire was founded on piracy by the East India Company.

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Account frozen...

Damn hell ass pirates!!

"Yar, sometimes I wonder why I bother plunderin' at all." --Sea Captain

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Proportionately, even thought we are a young country, yet oldest democracy on the planet, we have plundered more in less time than the UK, and others combined.

Shouldn't you then have NOT bought a computer, or any other consumer product? I mean, that is DIRECTLY responsible for all the "plunder."

Kinda like your standard of living. Seems you're perfectly happy to take part in the "spoils" of such "plunder."

If it's OK for you to do so, it's OK for other people to do so...

Hmmm. Interesting. Another unsupported feel good anti American accusation that this country plundered its wealth. How so? Plundered it from whom? (please don't say 'the indians'--we didn't get our trillions upon trillions of wealth from hunting tribes).

Capitalism is a system where the initiation of force is prohibited and the rule of law is established to protect property rights. This doesn't mean noone will ever be jailed for thievery, of course, as societies are made up of human beings. Only socialism, fascism, and other forms of statism rely on PLUNDER and force IN PRINCIPLE as a system. Yet, on one hand you demand more force and an end to the 'rich vs the poor' yet decry the only system that does not permit initiation of force against others. Then in your second breath you deride the rich for 'oppressing' the poor as another poster pointed out to you.
Do you not see the contradictions littered throughout most of your postings?

The workings of your 'mind' are truly fascinating.

edit=If you want to know what true 'plunder' is read philosopher Frederic Bastiat's 'The Law'. His stuff is available free on the internet.

The Law by Frederic Bastiat

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Please see Gone's new thread:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=42288

We have plastic wealth.


-----------------------------

Oh... To your question, Rush,

Google how much money and historical treasures have disappeared from Iraq since our invasion. "To the victor, the spoils.", will not be an acceptable response.



.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Please see Gone's new thread:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=42288

We have plastic wealth.


-----------------------------

Oh... To your question, Rush,

Google how much money and historical treasures have disappeared from Iraq since our invasion. "To the victor, the spoils.", will not be an acceptable response.



.

It turned out that the original reports of all these treasures and artifacts being looted by Iraqi's were overblown. That's old news. Are you claiming that the coalition forces have stolen them? What was taken was taken by Iraqis.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Tisk tisk

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Please see Gone's new thread:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=42288

We have plastic wealth.

Who cares? Did you have any points to make? I mean, can you understand why people seek to make their lives better by borrowing money? Hint: Their lives are better when they can buy education or homes without having to save for all of it, in advance...

Oh... To your question, Rush,

Google how much money and historical treasures have disappeared from Iraq since our invasion. "To the victor, the spoils.", will not be an acceptable response.

What possibly would ever give you the impression that I support theft? Especially since overwhelmingly that stuff was stolen by Iraqis. Hey, guess what, that same group is the number one cause of death in Iraq right now...

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Tisk tisk

I don't know what that comment means.

========================================

I do know that for days and days now you've made repetitive threads regarding capitalism, socialism, plunder, etc etc. I've given you a link to Bastiat's famous treatise but I somehow doubt you'll read it although I hope you surprise me. After all, you posted elsewhere that politics is of a special interest to you lately and you are trying to educate yourself.

"You can lead a horse to water........."

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Still commenting without reviewing the data presented.

I've obviously unhidden your comments but can't see replying to them any longer. Without your comments we may have made some headway here. Your opinions don't interest me and I won't pretend they do any longer.

Good critical writing is measured by the perception and evaluation of the subject; bad critical writing by the necessity of maintaining the professional standing of the critic.

Raymond Chandler


*Tisk Tisk: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tisk+tisk

:D

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Still commenting without reviewing the data presented.

I've obviously unhidden your comments but can't see replying to them any longer. Without your comments we may have made some headway here. Your opinions don't interest me and I won't pretend they do any longer.

Good critical writing is measured by the perception and evaluation of the subject; bad critical writing by the necessity of maintaining the professional standing of the critic.

Raymond Chandler


*Tisk Tisk: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tisk+tisk

:D

Since Rush, others, and I have refuted much of what you have asserted with facts, reason, and logic yet you apparently fail to read many of the posts in your own threads (as Rush pointed out earlier) that's your loss. It seems you're statements that you wished to educate yourself in regard to your newfound interest in politics is untrue.

----pearls before swine.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I dub thee, Sir Sidekick!

:D



.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Address the problem, not me.

It seems to be the only way they know...

Because to them, the only 'smart' people are the ones who are in agreement with them... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

R/B posted somewhere in here that I should read, "The Law", by Bastiat, so I will:

http://www.fee.org/pdf/books/The_Law.pdf

R/B also states I don't read what has been written in my own posts. He's right, to a point. There is a lot of data here, but I will get to it. I've been busy juggling real life situations and online commitments, passing through to goof off a little here and there, but know there is homework for me here.

I'll try to bang it out tomorrow, for this thread anyhow.

I don't know much but will always try to read what is written so I can learn. My comments may seem of the cuff because they are. It stimulates the discussion, and other less pleasant things, too. lol. I'll work on that!

:D

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Mr. Gray.

That's all I ask. Discussion and facts, reason, evidence, and logic.

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Politics is a tough subject.

No wonder I never took interest in it before now.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Ayn Rand Institute Press Release

Blame the Government, Not the Market, for Exorbitant Health-Care Costs
September 13, 2007

Irvine, CA--The New York Times reports that employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased by 6.1 percent this year--not as high as last year's 7.7 percent increase, but still far ahead of wages or inflation--and that since 2001 they have increased by 78 percent.

"These statistics will be used by the advocates of collectivized medicine to say, once again, that the 'free market' has failed, and that we need some form of government-controlled 'universal health care' scheme," said Alex Epstein, a junior fellow at the Ayn Rand Institute. "But the truth is the opposite. These skyrocketing premiums are testament to the huge destruction that the government's massive control of healthcare to date has already wrought.

"Health-care is one of America's most controlled and socialized industries--beginning with the fact that we are all forced to pay for one another's health-care through Medicare and the government-induced third-party-payer system. In the name of the individual's 'right' to health-care and the government's 'responsibility' to provide it, the government has reached its tentacles into every facet of medicine, from how many doctors are allowed to be licensed to which medical professionals may perform what procedures, to what procedures insurance companies must provide on their plans. Is it any wonder that health-care is a mess?

"Observe that in the fields that are left free, like the computer and electronics industries, over time the cost of any given product generally goes down, not up. If medicine were left free, with individuals responsible for paying for their own care and insurance, and America's businessmen, doctors, and educators liberated to offer it at all different price points, we would see quality and price improvements like those for flat-panel television sets. Indeed, we already see this with the few realms of medicine that are left free; laser eye surgery, for example, has improved dramatically over the years while prices have fallen. We could see such developments with medical care as a whole--as soon as we agree to take responsibility for our own health, and get the government out of it."

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Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Welcome home, Dogbytes

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

I've been following this thread for some time now as I found it very interesting, but did not feel confident to get involved.

I can honestly say I have no knowledge of the Amercian health system but do have knowledge of the NHS here in the UK.

The problem with the NHS has evolved over the last 3 decades when the government of the day decided to get involved. Now we have Hospital Managers, Catering Managers, Hygiene Managers, etc etc etc. All of these have secretaries & the like. Everyone of these people are unnecessary & are taking funds away from the system that actually needs those funds.

As to the level of care, on 22nd Febraury 2005, my wife "froze" in an armchair & no matter what I tried I could not get through to her. I called her mother who was an ex-nurse who told me to call an ambulance. This I did. To cut a very long story short, Andrea had spent 1 month in Intensive Care followed by a further month on a ward.

During this time, I was a lorry driver delivering to London every day & always popped into the hospital on my return to the depot. On this particular occasion, Andrea was nowhere to be seen. Apparently, the poor woman just wanted to be at home, & dressed in a pink gown and slippers, left the hospital(which is close to the city centre) & walked home.

Fortunately, she was spotted by an alert ambulance crew on their way to the hospital, stopped, picked her up & took her back to the hospital, where they gave security an almighty rollicking. I found out afterwards that she had done this 4 times & every time had not been stopped.

I put in an offical complaint as I was very "cheesed off". The duty manager, a 25 year old lass told me that it was not the hospital's job to stop patients from walking out.

My god, when I was a patient during my teenage years, if I left my bed without informing the station nurse, I got a rollicking from the Matron.

As for these bugs like MRSA, they did not exist then because the Matron ensured that all her nurses had standards are they were never allowed to fall below them.

Today....Huuummmmph!

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Thank you, Sirius B,

Here in the US they pay taxi's to drop people off somewhere if they don't have medical insurance.


Having a baby on NHS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2sFT7T0mCs


NHS beginnings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbAWNnGSVCw


Pre existing conditions

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/682850/sicko_flint_couple_says_moore_saved_home/



Pre existing II

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c876yS4SznQ



HMO employees talk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnUV6DAeGSQ



An American gets hurt in GB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miQeUkAb5Ck



Beginnings of HMOs and a medical reviewer for HUMANA speaks out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiEVtxGtBqI



Moore speak about the Internet leak of "SiCKO"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyKpg9zjXeI



:(

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Here in the US they pay taxi's to drop people off somewhere if they don't have medical insurance.

Yeah. That's an effective summary of the entire system.

Oh, and then the taxi drivers refuse to take those patients and go on strike because people like you begged the gov't to limit how much the drivers can charge.

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Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...