Is Religion Nonsense?


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Profile GalaxyIce
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Message 484248 - Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 16:15:14 UTC - in response to Message 484232.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world that he didn't exist.



The greatest trick god ever pulled ..... well god never pulled a trick, he is a figmant of our imagination - something that someone made up.

As far as the devil - well he is in the same position as god - he never convinced anyone of anything either.

All that this convincing someone of something is man made

who made man?

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Profile thorin belvrog
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Message 484368 - Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 19:51:44 UTC
Last modified: 17 Dec 2006, 19:58:13 UTC

Each scientific theory is based on axioms or postulates.
But: wiktionary explains:

axiom (plural axioms)

1. (philosophy) A self-evident and necessary truth; a proposition which it is necessary to take for granted; a proposition whose truth is so evident that no reasoning or demonstration can make it plainer. For example, "The whole is greater than a part."
2. (mathematics) A theorem that cannot be proved and is therefore fundamental, necessary, and assumed. Axioms form the basis of a mathematical system.
3. An established principle in some art or science that is universally received.


postulate (plural: postulates)

1. Something assumed without proof as being self-evident or generally accepted, especially when used as a basis for an argument.
2. A fundamental element; a basic principle.
3. (logic) An axiom.
4. A requirement; a prerequisite.


So when science is axiomatic, means based on propositions necessary to take for granted, on theorems that cannot be proved, then why are the scientists so zealous to fight religion which is also based on axiom and postulates - on the postulate that there is God, on the axiom that there are Higher Powers?

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Message 484400 - Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 20:54:56 UTC - in response to Message 484248.


who made man?



Women made man - Humans evolved.
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Profile Sarge
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Message 484494 - Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 22:49:16 UTC - in response to Message 484368.

Each scientific theory is based on axioms or postulates.
But: wiktionary explains:
axiom (plural axioms)

1. (philosophy) A self-evident and necessary truth; a proposition which it is necessary to take for granted; a proposition whose truth is so evident that no reasoning or demonstration can make it plainer. For example, "The whole is greater than a part."
2. (mathematics) A theorem that cannot be proved and is therefore fundamental, necessary, and assumed. Axioms form the basis of a mathematical system.
3. An established principle in some art or science that is universally received.


In mathematics, axiom and postulate are terms that are used as essentially interchangeable.
Definition 2 is incorrect. An axiom is a statement, like a theorem, but there are no questions about trying to prove it or not. (We learned from trying to prove Euclid's Fifth Postulate.)

So when science is axiomatic, means based on propositions necessary to take for granted, on theorems that cannot be proved, then why are the scientists so zealous to fight religion which is also based on axiom and postulates - on the postulate that there is God, on the axiom that there are Higher Powers?


I don't know if science is axiomatic, but they use our mathematical tools, so implicitly or explicitly they accept the same assumptions.

Do not suppose that all scientists are arguing against religion.

Do not suppose that all posters here are scientists or even close.

There are some who are interested in science (or may even be scientists, who knows?), but are totally shocked by the idea of axioms in mathematics and claim they "believe" nothing. Over and over I try to explain it and try to understand how within any human mind there are "no assumptions" being made or "no beliefs" held.
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Profile thorin belvrog
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Message 484507 - Posted: 17 Dec 2006, 23:04:19 UTC - in response to Message 484494.

Each scientific theory is based on axioms or postulates.
But: wiktionary explains:
axiom (plural axioms)

1. (philosophy) A self-evident and necessary truth; a proposition which it is necessary to take for granted; a proposition whose truth is so evident that no reasoning or demonstration can make it plainer. For example, "The whole is greater than a part."
2. (mathematics) A theorem that cannot be proved and is therefore fundamental, necessary, and assumed. Axioms form the basis of a mathematical system.
3. An established principle in some art or science that is universally received.


In mathematics, axiom and postulate are terms that are used as essentially interchangeable.
Definition 2 is incorrect. An axiom is a statement, like a theorem, but there are no questions about trying to prove it or not. (We learned from trying to prove Euclid's Fifth Postulate.)
Blame wiktionary - I must say, as I understand it, the German wiktionary has the same content - so just blame them not me.

So when science is axiomatic, means based on propositions necessary to take for granted, on theorems that cannot be proved, then why are the scientists so zealous to fight religion which is also based on axiom and postulates - on the postulate that there is God, on the axiom that there are Higher Powers?


I don't know if science is axiomatic, but they use our mathematical tools, so implicitly or explicitly they accept the same assumptions.

Do not suppose that all scientists are arguing against religion.

Do not suppose that all posters here are scientists or even close.

There are some who are interested in science (or may even be scientists, who knows?), but are totally shocked by the idea of axioms in mathematics and claim they "believe" nothing. Over and over I try to explain it and try to understand how within any human mind there are "no assumptions" being made or "no beliefs" held.
Okay, you got me. If I'd seen it earlier, I'd rephrased this myself... It's not my intention to be suggestive of supposing all scientists were against religion, or that everyone here were a scientist.
But I try to express that religion and science are not that different from each other, that they actually do have parallels, even that both of them work with belief and dogma.
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Message boards : Politics : Is Religion Nonsense?

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