we merely tried to take (valuable) time to explain something to you

for you to insult us for helping you.... i don't want to even go there

if you want to leave, go

if you want to stay, don't insult people

i will definitely think twice before i try to help you again

now, i'm outta here


.

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No matter where you go, there you are...

Angus,

I know it takes time to get used to a new situation, but quitting after one day is not the solution. I suggest that you be fair and give it a week. You may already be gone, and if that's what you've chosen to do, well, it's your choice.

But as I said before, it takes a while to get used to new things... Did everything make perfect sense the first time you turned on a computer? The first time you tried to drive manual?? the first time driving automatic after driving manual??

But you earned and adapted, and got used to it, maybe started to see some of the good things that you couldn't see initially, because you were still learning.

Some of the good things about BOINC include the automatic caching feature, the ability to have multiple projects (I know YOU don't like this, but if you look at the stats sigs, you'll see that many of us DO participate in many different fields), an improved quality of science.

Credits are something that all of us fight about, complain about and wish were easier. 1 and 0 is not an acceptable solution anymore by SETI's standards.

This is NOT trying to make SETI fit some one else's frame work... BOINC was developed by Berkeley, the same people who brought us SETI.

Windows 3.1 also worked, and was a great operating system at the time, but would you want to use it in today's world?? For the same reason, Classic must go.

If, after a week you still see nothing good about BOINC, I wish you luck in finding either a new DC project or congratulate you on getting over your stats addiction.

[edited for spelling and organization]

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> Instead it seems like it's only a bunch of cheerleaders for BIONIC that have
> no say in how things are done, and can only see things one way. And you all
> wonder why less than 2% of the Classic SETI folks have made the switch...
>
> I'm outta here.
>

I'm sorry you feel that way Angus, but it's your decision to make. I do have to say that people here have put a lot of effort into trying to explain the system to you in a helpful and friendly way, despite the obvious tone of your posts. I put a good deal of time last night in this thread helping you retrieve the account key you lost, and although i didn't actually expect a thank you, i didn't expect to get grumbled at either.

Nobody fully understands the BOINC credit system when they first start. It seems like a bunch of gibberish that somebody pulled out of their butt while smoking whacky weed. But once you start accruing credits on your account and actually see how it works it does make much more sense. I guarantee you. It is a fair system, much more so than Classic.

Dig

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>Nobody fully understands the BOINC credit system when they first start.

Digger, i'd re-write that as "Nobody fully understands the BOINC credit system."

But that's just me.

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> Well, there's been a lot of smokescreen put up about BIONIC and how it's
> better, because of all those other projects can be compared with SETI.
>
> For someone from Classic SETI, who could not give a fig for those other
> projects, this just doesn't work. If the WUs change because SETI wants to
> analyze somehow differently, then everyone gets new WUs and the 1 credit = 1
> WU still works.

I guess you weren't around Classic when they changed how much work was done around the middle of the doppler shift range (from +/- 10 degrees to +/- 30 degrees, if I remember correctly).

People wanted to stick with the old screensaver because they'd knock out work units faster -- because they did less science, and got credit more quickly.

If SETI changes the science part of the application, and it takes twice as much work, everyone gets twice as much credit per WU -- and no one can "game" their scores by picking their preferred science app.

The forum is a community. It's just just Berkeley, it's for all of us. A bunch of people took a bit of time away from whatever else they have to do, and gave you their best explanations of why BOINC is different.

If you choose to dismiss them as "cheerleaders" that's fine, but I think there was a little more substance than your typical high-school cheer.

It was nice meeting you. If you decide to stay, you are more than welcome. If not, that's your call -- we're all volunteers.

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> One more thing to add here...
>
> Some of these wu's might give you a "gift", i.e.: you claim 20 and get 50
>
> Some of them will leave you feeling like you've been robbed: claim 50 get 10

On average, you probably get as many points through "gifts" as you lose to robbery.

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Angus, are you a quitter? Not giving Boinc a fair chance after friendly help is just rude.

---

98SE XP2500+ @ 2.1 GHz Boinc v5.8.8

And God said"Let there be light."But then the program crashed because he was trying to access the 'light' property of a NULL universe pointer.

> Why not just give them a "1" for returning a good one, and a "0" for an unusable one. It worked in Classic...

Unfortunately it didn't, hence the development of the Credit system to over come the problems of the original Seti method for acknowledging work done.

There are definately still bugs with the way the amount of credit is determined, but it's still much better than the old counting of number of work units done.

---

Grant
Darwin NT

> For someone from Classic SETI, who could not give a fig for those other
> projects, this just doesn't work. If the WUs change because SETI wants to
> analyze somehow differently, then everyone gets new WUs and the 1 credit = 1
> WU still works. We all made it through the code changes in Classic when the
> crunch time was lengthened, because everyone was in the same boat. Put some
> time and money into fixing the hacker holes, and the project could continue
> like it was.
>
um, i love how people just ignore the facts that they don't want to listen to. as ned ludd stated, SETI will be doing at least 4 different WUs at the same time. if, for example, type 1 takes 30min, t2 1hr, t3 3hrs, and t4 10hrs, how do you compare them??
if we are worried only about getting credit, would you like a 1 for t4 when i get a 1 for each of 20 WUs i did in the same time?

> Trying to make SETI fit into someone else's nightmare framework is a disaster,
> and the concessions that were made are obvious. SETI/Berkeley would have
> been better off to put their time and money into redesigning their own
> project, instead of losing their identity in the BIONIC morass.

it was put into SETI's framework. i don't see any concessions. they did put the time into redesigning their own project. and i see no identity loss, just gain.

>
> I guess I thought I was talking to Berkeley on these forums, since they are on
> a Berkely server, and linked from the SETI site.
>
> Instead it seems like it's only a bunch of cheerleaders for BIONIC that have
> no say in how things are done, and can only see things one way. And you all
> wonder why less than 2% of the Classic SETI folks have made the switch...
>
> I'm outta here.
>

again, this guy sounds just like others we have had, using same stats, wording and misspellings.
i have never wondered why less than 2% have switched (as you claim) but i know for a fact from SETI DEVs that we do more science here and have more than 2% of active classic users. as you see from my join date, i have been with SETI@Home from the beginnng as well, and it is the minority here that do not have previous classic accounts (though i welcome all the newcomers as well).

Angus, if you have some actual interest in learning that is fine; if you are the same person who has made all the same misinformed claims before i really wish you would actually follow your statements and truely be gone.

Micah

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S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club

> > It also has a number of features to try to fairly grant credit -- and to
> grant
> > similar credit across more than one project.
>
> What does this have to do with anything? I'm only talking about SETI here.
> There is no reason why anyone would want to compare SETI results with any
> other project results, in BIONIC or any other platform.
>
Angus do you have AIDS, I am guessing the answer is no, even if it isn't let's suppose it is....you can then ask the same question, why would anyone want to develop a vaccine when a small percentage of the people need it?
Just because YOU can't see the reason doesn't mean that others can't and wish to do something about it!
Some of us DO participate in more than one Boinc project and would like our stats "comparable" to each other. You may chose not to do this, others chose to.
Sometimes Angus people try to see the big picture, you know the forest and the trees saying, but those darn trees keep getting in the way!

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