Posts by PwNz0R

1) Message boards : Politics : Crimea 6 (Message 1629730)
Posted 19 Jan 2015 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
I have glanced trough these "crimea" threads, and my only conclusion is that the mods (or admin) are in a deep coma, because this series of trash threads has gotten way, way out of hand.

Fair advice: for this kind of "talk", register at LiveLeak.com or some place like that and take it there. This is a SETI forum for crying out loud!

I'm reporting this.
2) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Kicking a dead horse... again (active SETI) (Message 1629725)
Posted 19 Jan 2015 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
A continuation of a thread from a year ago, that has been locked for "cooldown" but never unlocked.
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=73772

The topic is still: active SETI, alien intelligence, cultural collision yada yada...

I will kick off the discussion by saying yes to Active SETI, simply because we can not assume that an ET advanced enough to visit us (the most interesting scenario of first contact) is likely to be on our mental level, meaning that they are more likely to be well beyond silly bickering for resources, fighting over religion, and whatever other nonsence.
I base that assumption on the truth that I hold to be self-evident: the more nonsense people are engaged in, the less actual technology for active space exploration there is, and the more we are obsessed with fighting, using our resources on things that help us "live to survive" instead of "live to advance & explore".
Advanced enough technology to travel to Earth would also mean the ET has no shortage of anything what so ever. By that I mean raw materials, fuel, food, whatever else. Having energy sources that enable interstellar (or intergalactic) travel equals unlimited everything. Literally.

Thus I firmly believe that Stephen Hawking is full of it when he compared possible first contact with something like the Conquistadores. I undertand the comparison, but the assumption is that technologically super-advanced species are mentally on the level of medievil inquisitions.
3) Message boards : SETI@home Science : First Signs of the NTPCkr (Message 1629714)
Posted 19 Jan 2015 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
So... is this project dead or what?
4) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1464428)
Posted 14 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Chris S,

There are MANY ways to make a signal that can only come from an intelligent source (like mathematical formulas, images, etc).
But I am really wondering:
Say we intercept a radio transmission of any kind, bottom line being that we know 100% that it is not random background noise and are 99% sure it is extraterrestrial in origin and we have a "good idea" where it came from.

Now even if this happens, then what? Almost everything outside our solar system is too far away to even respond to not just within our lifetime but perhaps even within the hypothetical lifespan of human civilization on earth as a whole. Now that is even within our own galaxy, so other galaxies are completely out of the picture.

My theory is this:
If ET is sending anything at all using radio waves/laser whatever method that is inherently limited to about the speed of light, then if indeed that ET wants to be contacted then it is sending "blueprints" of at least a communication device that is way faster than light, a "subspace-darmatter-quantum-walkie-talkie" for the lack of a better description.
Othewise I would not see any point with a radio signal because of the improbability of any kind of communication at that speed.
Imagine a message in a bottle containing a rolled-up blueprint for a basic radio. Now that theory could work, because as far as space communication goes radio waves are IMHO just as effective to communicate as waves on the sea and a bottle is here on earth.
If the same ET wants to be contacted, this would also serve as a filtering process because if they think that somebody can construct such a device then they are "smart enough" to communicate with.
5) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1463748)
Posted 13 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
"crossing earth's path" means a directed energy message like using radio waves. If so, yes, that is unlikely because of its speed and various other factors. Quantum communication however IS possible to intercept and our interception of it would be detectable.
6) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Evacuate Earth a 2 hr. National Geographic Channel Special (Message 1463668)
Posted 12 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
I agree on that. Yellowstone is a ticking time bomb, along with the others. And certainly a large portion of all animal life, including humans, would most likely die off. But the planet would survive and I guess that a certain small human contingent would make it. But it would probably send us back to the stone age.


I am not so sceptical. It was always major events (of any kind) that forced humanity to advance. War, severe competition, hard climate/living conditions etc. Any such massive event like a supervolcano *will* harm humanity, but this is like the Chinese/Vietnamese proverb saying that gold is tested with fire. It may be a brutal event but as evolution tells us there will be those that fall and those that become stronger. Eventually something like this will make real space travel and colonization of space a necessity and a way of life rather than what it is now - watered down shoestring tours into LEO and scarse probing.
7) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1463664)
Posted 12 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
I am kinda suspecting we are using the wrong methods to search AND to tramsit with Active SETI.
If you go to the wikipedia page listing active SETI signals you will quickly see that the time it takes to cover the vastness of space and reach "well within range" planets, constellations, clusters etc is anywhere from half a century to many thousands of years and even that is at the speed of light.

We know it takes ridiculously long time to send even within our own galaxy given that it is about 120 thousand light years in size. What kind of "messaging" within this timeframe can take place, if any, is rather questionable. I am not saying it's pointless because we do not have anything else but the simple reason why we have not found something so far is that any civilization that actually has the capability to communicate across such long distances is probably not going to do it with the speed of a snail. If it takes such a long time just for the message to arrive let alone be detected and ananlysed (or replied to) then whatever ET there may have been is probably not there or is at the very different ET that send the message to begin with given that thousands of years are time enough for anything from extinction to evolution.

I am afraid that even without considering IF we some day detect something that way, it will be a one-way thing excluding any reasonable means to communicate. This will of course solve the question if we are alone but that's about it.

We may just be awayting the magic message to arrive by pidgeon mail, horse&carriage while we should be looking at much more advanced alternatives.

Luckely we have at least in theory quantum communication that may be much faster, and if so that would probably be "it" when it comes to interstellar communication, or something else we don't know of yet.
8) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1463242)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Since we can probably keep discussing this forever and never reach any kind of agreement let's go back to the topic. Your position on SETI is clear - to be cautious.

Please explain to me then:
1) How do you propose we go forth? Keep listening?
2) If we find ET before it finds us. What do we do? Contact them? As a pre-requitise let's say we ONLY intercept some random message that does not give us any clues of their nature other than a greeting only a rough explenation where they are.
3) If we are unsure of their nature or simply do not understand them, what do we do then? Do we attempt to contact, do we attempt to spy on them? Do we send a CIA operative discuised in a rubber "little green man" suit?
9) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1463240)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Incorrect. I can connect profit to inhumane acts. It would seem that you have simply stopped at the profit motive, and thus stopped asking 'why' once you arrived at a conclusion that satiates your curiosity


No, you are not undertstanding anything I said and just repating yourself.
Every, absolutely every single war or major conflict had GAIN as motivation and whatever ideological dogma as the popular REASONING. The first can exist without the latter just fine, the latter all by itself is absolutely useless.
Like in the example of slaves or natives the motivation was land, cheap labor, whatever othe resources and the "inferiority" was the reasoning and popular PR campaign. Because even before we (the western world) was fully aware of for example Eskimos or Koreans, but never had any specific attitude towards them until it was suitable to have one - like saying Native Americans are "inferior" and that their land should be taken. Thus the hate and the discrimination serves as an excuse but not as the reason. So following this logic we must have something tangible of value in order to be targeted.
And like I said so many times already the capability of such extensive space travel by its very fact voids (not all!) but the vast majority of reasons why anyone should want anything from us, because like you said we are at our "yourthful state" and in many areas just fail complteley (like government).
Making us slaves would be like making slaves of cats or flies, we would not even grasp the task we would be given. So like I said please point out what actual things of value other than the biodiversity we have is on this planet that would be such a valid reason why we should be attacked.

And stuff like "religious reasons" I am throwing right out the window because scientific advance is in direct contradiction to religion, so to expect that we have the Galactic Wahhabist Jihad arriving in our solar system is just out of the question. We must not project every single human failure as some kind of universal trait.
10) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1463216)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
You disagree with me on motivation for inhumane acts... I think I will not discuss that any further because you simply can not connect profit to whatever means that are used, although profit is the ONLY motivation that has ever led to anything (good or bad). That's fine.
But please explain this:
If a species possesses technology well beyond anything we have, and thus can create whatever it wants more effectively using that technology - what can it gain by attacking us or taking something from us?
Please give actual good examples. And no we are NOT good ad making "tools" given that we can not travel across the galaxy, if the hypothetical attacker can. In fact we can not even break our dependance on fossil fuels... so what exactly do we have that is so attractive that we should be enslaved/destroyed?
11) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1463190)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
So man never thought anyone lesser than himself? Enslavement isn't an example of treating people lesser, and thus a form of hate?


When fellow africans sold other africans into slavery they did it for profit, not for "hate" as a currency they could somehow barter with. When the eruopeans bought slaves they did so not just out of hatred of the africans, but because they wanted free labor. In each case PROFIT AND GAIN is motivation. Actually, in every other situation the reasoning is the same. No nation has ever acted without the idea of some kind of gain, and getting feelings in the whole debate is just showmanship and derailing the conversation.


And terrorism isn't about teaching hatred for a different way of life? Wow. What kind of people do I involve myself with in trying to have decent discussions? Simply wow.


Well, almost every act of terrorism known to man has been for either military or political goals, with benefits like land (Israeli terrorists bombing the british), influence (islamic terrorists in the middle east fighting for "sharia state") political change (weather underground, german communist groups) or any number of other TANGIBLE GAINS. Never in modern history has anyone attacked anyone on a large scale for hate alone, or for love, or for any other feeling or otherwise naive sentiment.
Just like the hatred for fellow man was a byproduct of slavery in the form of discrimination against africans, so is whatever nonsense rhetoric of any terrorist a cover-up for real goals and real gains.

So on the basis that no matter the reasoning every aggressive party ever to attack anyone is always after tangible gains, an nobody ever did anything "just because". And it is extremely unlikely that a species cpable of inner or intergalactic space travel is so childishly ignorant. It would be like saying that Hyenas can develop space travel while staying the same 4-legged flesh eating savages that attack anyone who is weak.
12) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1463140)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Or are you saying that no matter the cost to our own species, the advancement will be to our betterment somehow?


Yes I do. If based on your theory of fear and anger (which I by the day do not believe) then once all that can happen has happened it will be a huge advancement for our species. The benefits completely outweigh the disadvantages.

I don't see how this is any different for space-faring explorers.


Like I said the fact that "you don't see" is not reasoning, it is an unsupported opinion without even a logical basis for it. What I said and still say is this: space travel across such huge distances requires extreme amounts of power and technology. If a species is so advanced that it has that technology it is very likely that they are very advanced as a society and past most of their "childhood problems", and that they most importantly are so advanced that they can CREATE (i.e.: terraform, synthesise any chemical, create any object) whatever they want without the need for conquering anyone.
Like I said back in the days of colonisation it happened because people wanted something - like whale oil, ivory, slaves, rubber, coffee etc things that they did not have and not knowing any other way to get them, using methods socially acceptable at the time. Today we are advanced enough to make synthetic rubber instead of still occupying indochina, and we are civilised enough not to colonise others.
So using this as a basis a very, very advanced species is not very likely to act as some horrid mix of George Bush junior and a mentally disturbed kindergardener - and just attack for unsound reasons.

Now if you can give any logical explanation as to why you think otherwise - you are welcome, because so far you have not give any rationale for why you think that may even happen.

And yet that's exactly the thought processes of the people who conquer others.


Never happened except in Hollywood.
Conquering has never been about hate or view of others, much like terrorism has never happened because of "hatred" of some cherished freedoms. There are always deep, political reasons or financial reasons and benefits.[/quote]
13) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1462902)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
I do not claim to be a spokesperson for anyone, much less the Native Americans because I have absolutely no relations to them, but the fact that none of them use a shaman but have a medical insurance means they prefer the latter, or the fact that modern descendants of the Mayans are not boiling children's hearts or making human sacrifices for whatever religious purposes anymore means that the people have accepted the "new" way of living. Otherwise they would revert (because they do have the freedom to just that) but they are not. In fact I know of no culture that has reverted fully and willingly to whatever way of life it had in the past once it has been presented with the luxuries of modern life.

The issue of slaughter of natives and forced deportation/expulsion is based on the need of conquest, which in that time was a prerequisite of colonisation, and that happened because people could not "make" more landmass they could only steal it from whoever was the weaker.

However again - given that the the ET have the means to travel from another solar system to here which requires an immense amount of technology we do not even fully understand in hypothetical terms - it is extremely unlikely that they would want anything we have so badly they would attack us.
It is like saying that any ordinary average person today, let's say from USA, would have ANY benefit to gain from taking a plane to Africa, then driving xxx miles with a car navigating all the while with his/her iPhone to finally rob a Zulu hunter of his spear. That makes neither sense in any moral way NOR does it make sense in a financial point of view, given that the would-be attacker already has far more worthy possessions and can attain more of the latter in a way much simpler than robbery of someone so far away that the travel itself outweighs the benefits. However one could very likely imagine that the same person would go trough all that hustle to travel to Africa to offer medical or other help - because that would be "no matter the cost" situation where the moral benefit outweighs the cost.
So IMHO such space travel by itself means the ET has more than we do.

Perhaps they need cheap labor. Perhaps they just don't like our attitudes. Perhaps they think we're ugly or beneath them. There could be plenty of reasons to either enslave us or destroy us. This is just as much of a possibility as the comments you insist are somehow more likely.

Or perhaps they want to outsource earth labor to Omicron Persii 8. Makes just as much sense. Are you seriously saying it is likely that someone would travel across the galaxy just to destroy us because for some reason they find our existence offensive? I am sorry this argument is below me. It is like saying we live in Kindergarden Galaxy instead of Milkyway, where hyper-advanced ET travels around beating up alien races "because they look funny". Complete nonsense.
14) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1462884)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Mr no-name,

I will not quotation-spam you so I will reply to your post as a whole.
Even if we follow the worst case scenario that we KNOW of from events here on earth, which by the way are unique to us because we simply have no other experience, colonization has had a lot of bad sides to put it mildly but even so a Native American that would otherwise die of a simple disease can today be cured at a medical clinic rather than by shaman's useless "magic", and the slaves of yesterday are amongst those who run USA. So even IF the worst came to the worst earth-style so to speak, it is still an advancement in the long run.

Now another fact that you dismiss very easely, in fact you don't even mention it at all, is that almost all colonization-related issues and serious cultural clashes that lead to slavery and mass-murder are a thing of the past in first world nations. So it is then very logical to assume that moral standards advance hand-in-hand with technology, at least in part. It is technology (transport, communication, power etc) that has brought people together rather than tearing them apart.

It is I think a very logical assumption that a species that has the capablity to travel to us is so advanced that it does not need anything from us, since they have the technology to supply themselves with whatever they need and probably have 3-d printers and computer on a whole other level that we can even dream of today.

And again as I said - no advancement has even been made with cowardice and scepticism as a policy. China had once tried to explore the world, and only due to their own leader's ignorance at the time they "lost" their chance, while the Dutch, Portugese, the English etc explored the world with one less competitor. The result is a wholly populated North and South Americas, with multi-million populations and technological and other feats without which we may not even had this conversation today. Even given all evil that took place in the end it is an overall advancement. So I believe we should not be cowards and "live just to live" as we have for thousands of years, with a very brief extraterrestrial tour to the moon as the "culmination" of our advance, but rather reach out and actively seek advancement trough contact.
15) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1462875)
Posted 11 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
About the grassroots idea and that I do myself - I have just a little knowledge using the command prompt so in that sense making anything happen I am useless as far as helping NTPCKR goes. What I tried to point out is that as soon as SETI has a list of signals it can alaways show that that "yes we are looking, here are the results so far".

At the very least showing results and releasing the signal analysis data will create a way for scientists or students to run projects that study the signals by actively displaying this constantly updated "food for thought". Secondly you have to look at SETI at a regular company - what are the quarterly results? Imagine if a company said "we do not have time or resources to publish our financial figures". They would be bankrupt in an instant. Here however bankruptcy is not a danger, but diminishing interest due to not showing any results on an easely accessible page - is definately demontivating to those who want to contribute, donate, or just are curious about SETI.

As for the 100 years and no signal... for all we know this could mean a millennium without signals, ET is not something that is easely disproven or proven, this is a gamle like any other, but the slight chance of success means too much to dismiss it even after a 1000 years.
16) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1462756)
Posted 10 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Well that certainly sounds good. Like I said I'm in for NTPCKR and I bet a lot of people would donate as well.

Also a thing I did not mention - PR. SETI does not exactly have a lot of it, and that also counts for general public interest, donations etc.
This is a project where "no result" is a result, unless the extraordinary happens, and reporting just that is important IMHO. Even if there are 100 wow signals like you said, and none of them conclusive/debunked STILL that will generate interest.

Like at work even if the job is not done it is a good practice to inform superiors of the progress even if there is none - but at the very least pass the information on.
17) Message boards : SETI@home Science : This has probably been asked a thousand times... (Message 1462681)
Posted 10 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
I think active SETI is worth the effort.
Just listening never got anyone anywhere, this would be like rather travelling the oceans to discover other continents and people one would just sit there and wayt for the other guys to make the trip.
Now obviously people will instantly say "so please remember what happened last time when different cultures met, the slavery, ethnic cleansing etc".
Firstly I do not believe in the "everyone else is more evil than us" theory because this is some perverted logic. Friendship, communication etc requires trust. Even if there is the RISK of conflict - the potential of developing positive relations and all the benefits from that outweigh the negative scenarios.
Secondly, we are killing each other off here on earth just fine all by ourselves, and we allways will. There will never be peace on Earth, never happened before and probably will never happen in the future. That did not however stop us from advancing technologically and in whatever other way, and should not demotivate us either.

Now for some more pholosophic thoughts - if the ET can actually reach us having received the signal, then they are more advanced and that in itself is a bonus because that will grant us technology we do not have. That is far more likely then them coming here, reading the "war of the worlds" and reinacting that for real "just for the thrill". I do not believe that.
In any case - peaceful or aggressive contact will advance us and our planet. Either technology is boosted due to military necessity - or it is boosted trough friendly contact and exchange. There can not be a different outcome, and nonsense like "well, they could blow the whole planet up, kill all people etc" is just such nonsense with no valid reasoning behind it that it's not even worth considering.

Thirdly - representing outselves as friendly, outreaching, curious species by sending singals to potential ET positions us from a diplomatic standpoint as a good species. If we however hide and assume we are being watched (even though we think we are "below ET radar" but are atcually detected) makes us look as suspicious and cunning, and thus probably aggressive.

Lastly sincer no ET was ever discovered, and since we exclusively build our world wiew by observing ourselves, does NOT in any way make the Galactic Wormpeople of Gamma-Eplsylon 8 evil planet-killing slave traders. We just don't know that, or anything relating to ET for that matter.
I'm sorry, but tecnological and whatever other advances never happened by cowering in one's home.
18) Message boards : SETI@home Science : Let's see some results! (Message 1462674)
Posted 10 Jan 2014 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Wanted to post this in "Where's THIS seti's science?" but since that thread is locked I will post it here.
Not to imply that this whole project is pointless - on the contrary this project has all the potential to being "the" most important one given it ever succeeds - but as with the thread I am referring to IMHO that there is no "wow"-like signal every week or whenever is not the problem. That there are "potential" signal being found and then debunked as originating from earth, is not the problem either.
I think the problem is (and I am kinda kicking a dead horse, as I understand from the previous debate) that when a person visits the SETI homepage there is no link to click saying something to the tune of "best SETI potential signals so far".
No I am not speaking of some wishful list of every single alien suddenly being listed there as in a telephone catalogue, but even the EXISTANCE of such list - even if it would contain 0% real ET signals and 100% debunked\wrongly detected signals would make this whole project worth the effort.

Now I clicked the link for NTPCKR or whatever it is called. Why is it not working? Is not the very existance of this page the most important point of SETI? I am not a scientist or in any way related to science, but I would assume that page with links showing detailed analysis of the signal could and probably would be the basis of the work that scientists around the world would do and thus generate more interest in the project.
With that page being empty for all I know (and I am not an expert on computers either) I was for the last few years donating computing power not to SETI but maybe the NSA to crack some governmental encryption algorithm. Sorry but since NTPCKR is not working there is little conclusive results to show me otherwise. I am of course joking here but this is a valid point.
Not to sound offensive but I do want to offend - because myself and many people have donated a huge amount of computer time, money in hardware and electricity costs to run SETI. Myself I maybe have "donated" the equivalent of perhaps 2k$ so far, yes I am pulling that number out of thin air but its probably not so far off.
And unfortunately as long as the "average joe" like me is not presented with some even most basic list of signals found or NOT found (debunked) so far, this all seems very pointless. This should be a very simple thing, and I may be assuming this out of ignorance to what is actually requited to make such a list, but I consider my point as still very valid.

If the question is money - fine. Make a big donation button, specifically for that purpose, and I will be the first one to throw in at least 100$ for that specific purpose. If all the other people here have the money to build expensive rigs to run excvlusively BOINC (and not a gaming rig such as I have), then they too would probably be very enthusiastic about donating for a purpose that JUSTIFIES their effort in crunching data. Kickstart it if necessary.

And if any SETI staff reads this please explain why has this not been done yet, or ever for as long as I have been contributing to this project.
19) Message boards : Cafe SETI : The aliens are here! (a what-if scenario) (Message 1029404)
Posted 29 Aug 2010 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
@VW Bobier
"Other areas would just take longer or be able to fend off attacks"
That is an impossible statement: if there exist aliens it is impossbile to tell what their capabilities are. If EMP can render all electronics useless - and that is just one weapon we KNOW OF - there is no way of telling what they would have but if they would come here makes it contraversial - we do not have inter-stellar flight and they in that case would have, then we are waaaaay inferior to them.


@Scarecrow
Then why have we never found any concrete evidence of their existance? Nothing can be that perfect, even they would have slipped up and left some clues.

@Carlos
Thanks
20) Message boards : Politics : Do you believe in GOD? (Message 1029403)
Posted 29 Aug 2010 by Profile PwNz0R
Post:
Well bobby, you prove my point. You are not an atheist, but... I don`t even know how to put it in words... "anti-theist"? That`s your religion.
And if you don`t believe me that the words extremist or fundamentalist apply, look up communism and see what it did to religious people. It is an outstanding example of anti-theist extremism.

But in the end, neither religion or lack of it is ever the reason, but people.


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