Dimitris Hatzopoulos 的帖子

1) 留言板 : SETI@home Science : British MOD says UFOs don't exist (消息 471552)
发表于:3 Dec 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Nick Pope used to work at the MoD in the UFO "debunking" department. But after investigating a major UFO incident in 1989-1990 over Belgium involving over 1000 military personnel, and 3 confirmed radar tracks, he became a believer and soon wrote the book "Open Skies, Closed Minds".


A classic example of a "debunker" turned to "believer" is of the late J. Allen Hynek, past Chairman of the Astronomy Department of Northwestern University, who served as the scientific consultant to US Air Force "official" UFO investigation Project "Blue Book" during 1948-1969 (when it was terminated). Later he established the CUFOS (Center for UFO Studies) "for those who wish to see positive scientific action taken to end a quarter of a century of misrepresentation and buffoonery".

All this happened before many of us were born yet after so many years there's been minimal progress.

Here is a Selection of UFO Resources (documentaries, official studies, videos, portals, photos, books etc)
2) 留言板 : SETI@home Science : British MOD says UFOs don't exist (消息 470765)
发表于:2 Dec 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Why don't you read the study itself, rather than rely on the BBC reporter?

UK Ministry of Defence Study on UFOs

and you may want to read a review (lengthy one)

PS: When you read such a study, you have to put it in context, because it's meant to convey different messages to different people. Much like the "Condon Report" on UFOs in US in 1969.
3) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 368566)
发表于:15 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Merlin, I've tried to keep this thread "professional", so I would appreciate if you'd help keep it that way.

I'm not an expert on oil matters, so I'm an "agnostic" wrt the PeakOil theory. It might be correct or not, I just cited Lynch for another POV. Also, Lynch looks much more "scientifically sound" to me, unlike some of what is published in the Websites you cited.

Finally popularity doesn't equal validity (you know "billions of flies can't be wrong, eat sh!t"). I've read Simmons and I personally can't take him seriously.

Anyway, although I'm no oil expert, I'm very knowledgeable about how financial markets work and I can assure you that the current "price discovery mechanism" for oil is DEFINATELY BROKEN, as there practically is no "feedback mechanism" between real "wet barrel" oil market and price-setting futures markets.

I also know how a bull market and constantly rising prices can mess people's minds: In 1980, the US Secretary of Energy stated "One thing is for certain, [crude] prices will continue to rise ... traditional criteria of supply and demand don't apply." Not to mention dotcom mania etc. Or a few days before the Stock Market Crash of 1929, "Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." by Fisher.

In previous posts, I've sent dozens of charts of various commodities, many in parabolic upmoves, like oil, and have explained what is the driving force behind it (not Peak-Copper/Nickel/Lead/Aluminum/etc).

In conclusion, PeakOil might be a real issue, to come in 2 or 5 or 10 or 50 years, but the parabolic upmove of the past 2yr in a comfortably supplied real oil market is IMO definately a financial game.

Another problem with PeakOil camp is that it has attracted too many TEOTWAWKI (The End of the World As We Know It) folks and it's hard to discuss things with such people.
4) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 368448)
发表于:15 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
If one wishes to read the other side of the thesis outlined in Merlin's post, I'd suggest you start with articles on petroleum economics and in particular with Crop circles in the desert

About the lack of refinery capability, I tend to agree, but doesn't it make you wonder why?
5) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 367186)
发表于:14 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
As crude oil price in NYMEX (New York Merc) Sep-06 traded over $80/barrel earlier today, which will cause more financial hardship to millions of people, you need to keep in mind that this entire "energy crisis" has been ENGINEERED, FABRICATED from A to Z in the derivatives markets of NY and London.

Here's something that I meant to send, but wanted to check archives to make sure it had actually been said (and was not some kind of "urban legend"):

‘‘Leon Hess, whose oil company made more than $200 million by trading oil futures during the Persian Gulf crisis ... said he longs for the days when oil company barons could get together and decide prices and supply levels largely among themselves, rather than depending on the violent price swings created by traders who react to rumors and headlines.
‘‘‘I’m an old man, but I’d bet my life that if the Merc [New York Mercantile Exchange] was not in operation there would be ample oil and reasonable prices all over the world, without this volatility,’ Hess said at a hearing the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs held on the role of futures markets in oil pricing.’’ —‘‘Oil Baron Longs for Past, Not Futures,’’ Newsday, November 2, 1990


PS: Also see Mabro's comments (2 posts below).
6) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 364797)
发表于:12 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
"The U.S. trade deficit widened by 0.8% in May to $63.8 billion as both imports and exports set monthly records, the Commerce Department said Wednesday." The dollar value of imported petroleum increased by 17% to a record $27.9 billion in May. The quantity of energy-related petroleum imports rose by 10.5% to a record 433.4 million barrels.

As crude oil makes new all-time highs in price (Sep-06 contract hit $76/bar a few minutes ago), I'm reposting something from R@H's forum about oil pricing system:

I've tried to explain the crude oil pricing mechanism as best as I could and why I think it's broken. I'm not sure if I was able to make things clear enough.

A very good description of the flaws of the current pricing system of crude oil comes from Robert Mabro (a scholar and highly regarded consultant with 3+ decades of experience in the oil market, now retired). He explained the issues in his 2000 article:

http://www.oxfordenergy.org/comment.php?0008

which I think is a must-read for anyone who wants to understand the oil market (I've linked to it in the 1st post in this thread). Btw the situation back then (1998, 2000) was much less acute than today.

Here's an extract from the abovementioned article:

"As mentioned before, because of the lack of good information on production, stocks and demand, what rules the market is the consensus view about these numbers rather than the actual situation. This has an important implication for OPEC. When OPEC has to decide on a production policy in order to reverse a price fall as in 1998 and March 1999, it is obliged to reduce production by the volume demanded by traders and not by the amount required to restore the supply/demand balance. And the market has a tendency to believe in myths, such as the myth of the `missing barrels' in 1998. In that year OPEC, together with Mexico and Norway, reduced oil production twice (in March and June) to no avail. The oil price continued to fall. The market did not believe that the reductions were large enough. In March 1999 OPEC cut production by the large amount demanded by the market. This turned out to be too much as evidenced by the relentless price increase that followed throughout that year.

It is nice to say that markets should rule. The statement is however meaningless and indeed dangerous in its implications if one does not specify which market, and the conditions that qualify a market to rule. The oil futures markets as they exist today and for the reasons mentioned earlier on do not qualify. Yet, OPEC has to follow their whims to influence the course of oil prices and this seems to be an important cause of high volatility."


Mabro's CV, Awards (by OPEC, the Queen etc :-). He published several books and articles on the oil markets.

"In December 1991 Mr Mabro was awarded the International Association for Energy Economics 1990 Award for Outstanding Contributions to the Profession of Energy Economics and to its Literature.

In December 1995 he was awarded a CBE by HM the Queen in the New Year's Honours List. In 1997 the President of Mexico awarded him the medal of the Mexican Order of Aguila Azteca and in 2000 the President of Venezuela awarded the medal of Francisco Miranda, and in 2001 was promoted Officier des Palmes Academiques (France).

In 2004 he received the first OPEC award for contribution to oil studies."


PS: Mabro is retired. I don't know why more people in the oil industry don't speak up CLEARLY about this subject, considering the economic damage inflicted upon consuming nations ... (they do speak, e.g. Leo Drollas http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/forum_thread.php?id=1707#19322 but it's not always clear what the cause and effect is)

7) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 358215)
发表于:5 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Just in case anybody missed it, today crude oil made new all-time highs (intraday) to $75.4/bar, up 1.8%

On the other hand, natural gas, which also belongs to the energy complex and is historically correlated with crude oil (based on the energy content) -although they're not perfect substitutes, they're used interchangeably esp. in industry- made fresh 2 YEAR LOWS, down -6% today and down -65% since Dec-2005.

In both cases of nat.gas and crude oil, the storage facilities are FULL and supply comfortably covers demand. In the case of nat.gas it pressures price downward, whereas oil -having a BROKEN pricing system, as I've explained in detail earlier- price keeps going up and up, but producers like Saudi Arabia and Iran can't find buyers for their real oil.

And resort to actually cutting production e.g. Saudi Arabia cut production by -400,000 barrels/day (from the 9.5Mbpd level of the past 2yr downto 9.1Mbpd) in Apr-06 citing lack of buyers and Iran leased 2 more VLCC supertankers a few weeks ago, for a total of 9, to use them to store 18 million barrels while looking for buyers.

Nat.Gas is trading at a price equivalent to oil at $35/bar (instead of $75/bar it's right now)



8) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 354370)
发表于:2 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:

I'm just asking about the "How" of it all. What would you like people do to get this changed?


Write to your regulators / legislators / representatives.


That's it? That's the sum total of what you have to say about what we need to do about price disconnects?


Yes, a cornered market is an issue that can only be solved in a regulatory way in the short term (months / years). It won't be the first time.

Reducing consumption (drive less, use hybrid cars etc) won't help, as REAL oil demand is going down (i.e. producers can't find buyers, have to cut production etc as you read everyday in the news) and yet price keep surging up. Unless we're talking HUGE drops in consumption, like -10%, which won't happen unless in a deep recession.

Anyway, I'm done discussing this matter. By now, the info in this thread is more than enough for everyone who is capable of understanding the issues...
9) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 353709)
发表于:1 Jul 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
The price is set by what price the Saudis would want to sell at. If there is no real demand, because most people are trying to cut back. It is not surprising that they can't find buyers at the current price.
Rather than the Saudis cut back their production, they should increase it and when their tanks are full they'll need to sell at a lower price say $40 and the buyers will come running.

Your argument doesn't hold up.


I'm just citing the facts.

Take a few minutes to actually READ the info I've provided, about how exactly international oil price is determined, before hitting the "reply" button!

Ofcourse Saudis (or other producers) could sell "under the market", e.g. $50 rathaer than $74. But if they did, they'd be defacto abolishing the current pricing mechanism, in place since 1988, which prices oil off the "paper barrels" of the 2 derivatives exchanges in NY and London.

But, why should the oil producers, who are enjoying windfall profits, initiate such a change? Rather than the consumers who are paying the bill? Why don't you ask YOUR COUNTRY'S regulators why THEY don't abolish / change the current pricing system?

Frankly, I'm a little suprised that the Saudis are so frank about making it crystal clear that it's not a demand/supply constraint. They've been saying this for the past 2 yr, yet recently they've even cut back production to prove it.
10) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 353159)
发表于:30 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
I've written about it many times, here is once more:

Write to your regulators / legislators / representatives. Surely there must still be a few honest men among them, who care for people's interests. They can't all of them have sold you out, can they?

Take the "investors" who are pouring $$$ in oil "paper barrels" out of the picture. Demand that anyone dealing in oil for over a certain threshold, must be involved in the physical market.

The price mechanism for oil is broken and the market is cornered. One way to immediately solve this crisis, is to abolish the current pricing system and go back to nation-to-nation contracts. If Saudis say they see no reason why oil should be trading over $50, use that price as a start.

There are other options, I get more technical in the links:
http://dhatz.blogspot.com/2006/06/oil-to-38657-per-barrel.html
http://dhatz.blogspot.com/2006/06/oil-price-marginal-barrel.html

This IMHO is NOT a problem which can be solved by reducing demand/consumption or increasing supply (drive less, drill ANWAR) for PHYSICAL, real "wet barrels" of oil (unless we're talking adding 10Mbpd in spare capacity for LSC which can't happen overnight). There is ALREADY a enough real oil to meet demand, the producers can't find buyers for it (not just now, but for some time, S.A. cut -400Kbpd, Iran is leasing VLCCs to store it while looking for buyers). Producers are pumping LESS than what they did 1-2 years ago as they have no buyers, you read about it everyday and yet price is driven up at the "paper barrel" financial trading level.

Remember that the biggest part of US' trade deficit is due to oil imports. And you're paying for it by selling out your country's "silverware", i.e. selling toll-roads, ports, companies etc.

If it were a REAL supply/demand crisis situation, where countries were outbidding eachother for the last few drops of oil, it might have been a "necessary evil" to sell out your country's silverware to pay for it. But always remember that THERE ARE NO REAL BUYERS FOR PHYSICAL OIL IN THE REAL WORLD and this situation exists so that very few people can make even more obscene profits!


PS: As I'm writing this, oil is back near all time highs, over $74/barrel!
11) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 353032)
发表于:30 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Um, I don't understand what you mean by the people should "revolt". Do you mean demonstrations at the refineries? Protests in the streets?


I'm not talking about refineries or BigOil. Ofcourse they're profiteering off a broken pricing mechanism and pretend all is well and are shedding crocodile tears about how sorry they are.

I mean to change the BROKEN mechanism used to set the price of oil, off the price of derivatives whereas there is no real link between derivatives and physical. Isn't it obvious?

When you have even the #1 exporter of oil in the world tell you BLUNTLY that oil should be selling for no more than $50 (see yesterday's Reuters story) and now it's 50% higher, just what more do people need?

If we were talking about the market for apples instead of oil barrels, and you saw the price go up and up and at the same time the producers tell you can't sell their apples, wouldn't you think the market is "broken"? Why don't people do the same for oil?

Apparently people have the misconception that international "open markets" set the price for oil, but due to technical aspects -explained earlier- the oil derivatives markets are neither free nor fair. They're cornered, but unlike a similar situation that might happen in a piece of paper i.e. stock, oil is a basic commodity which everyone HAS to buy and it's getting awfully expensive!

12) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 352204)
发表于:29 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Even the oil producers say on every occasion that current prices are detached from reality (basically, what I call a broken pricing mechanism, for a physical commodity, which unlike a paper stock, is consumed at physical level)

Yesterday from Reuters:

Saudi cut shows record oil defies market logic
Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:58am ET167

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil power Saudi Arabia has offered the most compelling proof yet that record high prices are divorced from the realities of supply and demand.
...
"There is absolutely no relationship between price and supply and demand," Saudi Oil Minister Ali Al-Naimi noted. He told pan-Arab newspaper Al Hayat in early June that crude oil was worth no more than $50 a barrel based on fundamentals.


src

I'll never understand why people don't revolt...
13) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 350937)
发表于:28 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Beethoven, personally I think consumer nations would be much better served overall, if people pressed for going over to country-to-country contracts for buying oil.

The current pricing system (in use since 1988) is broken under current circumstances, as it is very much detached from the actual physical "wet barrel" supply/demand picture. Financial inflows completely distort the picture and have the potential for doing this for years and years.

Leading to the current paradox, where producing countries can't find buyers for their real oil and actually forced to scale-back production (see previous comments from Saudi Oil Minister, or Iran), yet price keeps going up and up as if there were a constraint.

There are other solutions (I suggested a few in my article), but the country-to-country contracts would affect prices immediately, whereas other solutions would lag significantly.
14) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 350837)
发表于:28 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
NOTE: PLEASE let's keep this thread about CRUDE OIL, there is another one about gasoline prices.

Last week, Iran leased 2 more VLCCs (Very Large Crude Carriers, oil super-tanker ships)for oil storage, claiming lack of demand for heavy, sour crude. With now 9 vlccs, have storage capacity for 18.3 million barrels. (As per latest issue of OGJ.)

So, there is a GLUT of heavier crude oils, a GLUT of nat.gas (they couldn't find where to store it anymore and plunged in price -65% since Dec-05)

And the only "demand" is for light sweet crude oil via "paper barrels" of the futures markets (derivatives). As "traditionally" all crude oils are priced off those futures "paper barrels" benchmark, it causes the entire price chain to spike yet, despite the world being awsh in "wet barrels" of oil.
15) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 350799)
发表于:28 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Again copying some interesting Q&A from R's forum (as I copy stuff from this thread to theirs):

-----------

What can be done?


In my blog I offered several ideas:

"So, from the lack of real action for 3+ years now, e.g. no additions of refinery capacity for the heavier types of oil, or expanding the types of futures contracts traded, or adding risk to holding speculative longs by randomly selling e.g. 30Mb from SPR (instead of letting momentum funds front-run mindless price-insensitive buying for filling of US SPR during 2002-2005), or even suggesting that we go back to nation-to-nation contracts, I can only conclude there is some hidden agenda behind accepting the broken price discovery mechanism in oil market today"

There's tons of explanations of why the price is so high and won't come down. Listening to the radio, or reading the paper, I gather that the 'glut' of storage oil on the market has now affected OPEC so badly that they're storing oil in old tankers (and running out of them!). They're looking (begging) for people on the open (spot) market to buy oil.


Indeed, there is a glut of real "wet barrel" oil, yet price remains stratospheric at $72.2 a bit down from all-time-highs of $75. Basically IMHO it's a broken pricing mechanism, which leads to the paradox where oil keeps going up in price (supposedly on surging demand) and yet producers can't find buyers for REAL "wet barrels".

Inflation, inflation everywhere!


Inflation is evident everywhere but the governments' statistics and wages.

Pretty soon, the producers are going to have to start ramping back, correct? And when that happens, the price IS gonna be pretty much set in stone, correct?


The producers ARE cutting back, as they have nowhere to store it (why pump it up?). Wrt price, not really, it all depends on how long this broken system will persist.

Most of the charts and articles you've referenced here reflect the month of April, and they mostly talk about the Western world (specifically the US). What's going on in China? And to a lesser extent, India? Things haven't changed much in three months. It's such a fast changing world, too.


Charts are same-day as posts. Articles, I gather over the Web and may be weeks/months old. Doesn't change much, the real market picture is the same for the past 1.5yr

I'm not an economist, but I would say those "orange" people have something to do with whats going on, too! Maybe these 'speculators' ain't so happy that the world is going flat without them?


I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean "orange people"?

Another interesting thing is that the European price for fuel has always been a lot higher than the US. I remember paying something like 4.50 a liter in Italy 10 years ago. Is that right?


The difference in EU is due to taxes. I'm talking about CRUDE OIL in my articles, not the refined products (gasoline etc).

So, my question is what mechanism could you use to artificially inflate the price of light sweet crude and sustain it, in order to develop new technology that will in the end, defeat it? And to further aggravate the question, who would be developing the new technology? Hate to be an outsider holding on to a bunch of light sweet crude when that happens, but either way, someone is always living behind a dumpster at a 7-Eleven.


Well, one COULD use today's method, i.e. take advantage of the broken price discovery mechanism in crude oil to artificially inflate its price.

But it's like shooting oneself in the foot.

If governments want to reduce our exposure to foreign oil and/or go "greener" (more environment friendly), they can simply TAX the product. e.g. put a $3/gallon tax on gasoline to drive it to $6/gallon. It would force consumers to use less and opt for more efficient vehicles etc etc.

Instead nowadays it's ruining our trade balance. Because 500-600bn/yr goes to oil exporters.

It really makes no sense to me why this situation persists so long and why sheeple haven't revolted yet.
16) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 350256)
发表于:27 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
More stuff posted in the mainstream media about this. Basically, I think everyone who has done his homework knows the oil price spike is due to "investor" demand.

As long as -due to small spare world production capacity for THOSE PARTICULAR CRUDE OIL TYPES- investors control the "marginal barrels" of the oil type used for physical delivery in futures (light sweet crude), they can set price to just about anywhere.

The question is whether something ought to be done about this bleeding of ~$500-$600bn/year from western nations into the hands of oil producers (at current prices it's going to be even more).

Bhushan Bahree and Ann Davis wrote in WallStreetJournal in Apr-06 (source):

Crude oil closed above $70 a barrel for the first time, highlighting a phenomenon reshaping the petroleum world: investment flows into oil futures are supplanting nitty-gritty supply-and-demand data as prime drivers of prices

In contrast to past bull markets in crude, this year's run-up has occurred even though oil inventories in the U.S., the world's largest market, have swelled to their highest levels in nearly eight years....

The answer to the puzzle posed by rising prices and inventories, industry analysts say, lies not only in supply constraints such as the war in Iraq and civil unrest in Nigeria and the broad upswing in demand caused by the industrialization of China and India. Increasingly, they say, prices also are being guided by a continuing rush of investor funds into oil markets. Institutional money managers are holding between $100 billion and $120 billion in commodities investments, at least double the amount three years ago and up from $6 billion in 1999, says Barclays Capital, the securities unit of Barclays PLC....

Since early 2005, the crude-oil market is in what traders call contango, meaning futures contracts for a given product are priced higher than that same good for near-term delivery. The price of oil to be delivered four months from now is about $3 more than oil to be delivered next month.

In short, it pays for refiners and other oil-market players to buy and hold oil now to sell it down the road. Making that trading opportunity possible, says Colorado-based oil analyst Philip K. Verleger, is the huge volume of new buyers on the other side: investors who he estimates have put more than $60 billion into U.S. crude-oil futures since 2004.

Indeed, San Antonio-based Valero has been operating with its crude tanks full since the start of the year. When the market is in contango, "you tend to operate at the top of your tanks," says Bob Beadle, Valero's senior vice president in charge of crude oil, supply and trading. Mr. Beadle estimates that in the U.S., the difference between the industry operating at full tanks and at minimum operating levels amounts to as much as 75 million barrels of oil, or about three days of supply.
17) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 349185)
发表于:26 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
One more article on the same subject (less technical, as it's aimed at the general audience):

source

Interview: Oil Expert Explains What's Driving Record High Prices
By Jeffrey Donovan
Azerbaijan -- Caspian oil derricks, pollution
(AFP)
Oil prices have climbed steadily since 2004, and today they rose again to new record highs of more than $74 a barrel. What's driving prices -- and can they be brought back down? Government officials and oil executives from more than 65 nations will be asking those same questions when they gather in Qatar on April 22-23 at a meeting of the International Energy Forum. Among the factors driving prices up are fears over possible supply disruption in major oil-producing states such as Iran, Iraq, and Nigeria, where a rebel offensive has cut off one-quarter of output.

PRAGUE, April 20, 2006 (RFE/RL) -- RFE/RL spoke with Leo Drollas, the deputy director and chief economist of London's Center for Global Energy Studies.

RFE/RL: The price of oil continues to climb to record highs. Analysts say fears over the Iranian nuclear crisis is one of only several issues driving up prices. Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad only strengthened those fears on April 19, when he said oil prices are still below their true levels. What's your take?

Leo Drollas: The first thing we must say is that these high prices are really paper prices, in a sense for paper oil, they're not the prompt market -- that is, for real wet barrels, as we call them. So they're obviously driven a lot by news and by sentiment, and they refer to oil that is bought and sold months ahead through paper contracts. And these prices move quite quickly on news, and the news is bad at the moment for oil because of the Iranian standoff, because of problems continuing in Nigeria, and many other factors in the market.

RFE/RL: So you're saying that, beyond fears over Iran or supply disruptions in Nigeria, the futures market is driving up prices?

Drollas: There's a lot of money that has come into the oil market over the last few years. The money that is now tracking commodity indices has increased from about $8 billion in 2001 to about $70 billion today. So we've got a huge influx of money into commodity-tracking indices, and a large part of those indices of course refer to oil. So we've got a lot of speculative money or hedge-fund money or other kinds of investors coming into oil, thinking they're on a roll now and that oil prices will forever increase. And in a sense, this tends to fulfill the prophecy, as long as the money keeps coming in.

RFE/RL: How does that drive prices, exactly?

Drollas: What tends to happen is that the futures prices, especially for months further out, tend to rise, and they create a difference between future prices for outer months and spot prices for oil, especially for "wet" barrels. And this differential encourages people to buy physical oil, and therefore, the pressure from the futures market is transmitted to the actual spot market for oil.

RFE/RL: But isn't capacity part of the problem as well, both in terms of the actual supply of oil and the fact that, particularly in the United States, refining capacity is down, with some refining facilities still not fully recovered from last summer's Hurricane Katrina?

Drollas: Well, this is the huge, unanswerable question as to what component of this price run-up is due to speculation, as we call it, or due to real fundamental factors. My own gut feeling is that maybe $15 [per barrel] or so at the moment is due to these kind of pressures from the futures market, from speculation if you like. In other words, the price should have been quite a bit lower than that, because there isn't actually a physical shortage of oil at this very moment.

RFE/RL: So this gets us back, perhaps, to emotions -- to fears over possible supply disruptions due to crises in key producing countries, such as Iran, Nigeria, Iraq.

Drollas: Of course, the fear is there because of these factors: Iran and Nigeria in particular, and also Venezuela to some extent in the background. But one must bear in mind that there is a physical problem too, in the sense that the spare capacity to produce crude oil in the world is under 3 percent of global demand for oil. And a business that runs with such little spare capacity is vulnerable to all kinds of events that make people worry or fear whether the system is able to cope with the pressures that are put on it in, let's say, the autumn or the winter that we have ahead of us.

rest of interview in the link above
18) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 347795)
发表于:24 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
A fellow over at Rosetta's forum asked me an interesting question and I'm copying here my answer too:

------------

Have you studied the effect of oil price on the other commodities? I mean if price of oil goes up, it will cost more to run a tractor across a field and harvest sugar cane, or cotton or oranges... and electricity costs will increase which has a great impact on smelting of metals, precious or otherwise. I mean how much of the increase in the prices of these other commodities is directly attributable to the increase in oil prices?


This is a very good question and it sounds logical.

In my opinion (being a participant in the markets for many years) is that it's primarily a FINANCIAL phenomenon, initiated by the tsunami of paper money and credit, unleashed by the world's central banks, starting back in 2002. Basically it's been just monetary inflation via an explosion of paper money and credit. Official reported inflation was masked mostly by changes in the CPI (if CPI were calculated as in 1980s, inflation would stand at 8% yoy) but also in part by the deflationary forces of globalisation.

In the process, we experienced a "Flucht in die Sachwerte" by more savvy investors.

Now, to answer your question about whether energy costs cause the price of other goods to rise, I'll send some more charts of commodities, which attempted to rally along with the rest but couldn't hold those gains:









So WHY do some commodities rally but others not e.g. cotton or corn or wheat or coffee? By now you'll probably have put the pieces in the puzzle, by noticing that the commodities which enjoyed big price increases (and held onto those price gains) were the ones which are either STORABLE (base and precious metals) or had a BROKEN price discovery mechanism (as in my opinion has oil, with no link between futures and spot and priced off futures).

So, basically in all cases the rally in prices has been due to "investor" ("speculator") money inflows. Obviously for those commodities where storage is too cumbersome and/or rot/decay/decompose etc it didn't work so well.


Btw, orange juice is in fact "frozen concentrated orange juice", which is why it's storable and it worked.

Also, don't think that e.g. cocoa supply caught up with "demand" and brought the price down (you know, from the billionz of Chinese and Indians who suddenly found out the joys of drinking hot chocolate as the media of mass deception would say :-), because a cocoa-tree needs about 5yr to grow.

Finally, you'll also notice, that e.g. natural gas, which is FUNGIBLE for oil in many applications, has dropped quite a bit (-65%) since Dec-05, as storages are full and they have no room to put the extra production! Yet oil has held to its entire gains.


19) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 346772)
发表于:23 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:
Btw the runup in price of commodities is not limited to oil. Just for comparison, I'll send monthly charts of various commodities. You'll notice that those which enjoy almost inelastic, price-insensitive demand by consumer-victims held up their price quite well.

Oil:


Copper:


Platinum:


Gold/Silver



Orange Juice:


Sugar:
20) 留言板 : Cafe SETI : About the price of oil (消息 346755)
发表于:23 Jun 2006 作者: Dimitris Hatzopoulos
Post:


One more week gone by, with oil closing above the $70/bar price (it's been 2 months already). Doesn't make headlines anymore and people seem to be "accepting" it.

Beethoven, I've no idea when the bubble will burst, mainly because I see incredible complacency by those being victimised (i.e. consumers) and that, unlike stockmarket bubbles which deflate from their own weight (nobody is obligated to buy a stock), the KEY difference with a unup in vital commodities like energy is that there is almost inelastic, price-inensitive buying by the victims who need it.

Btw, it's not just oil which has been the target of speculative inflows, it's just that it's the one which most affects our everyday life.


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