I have 5.8.16 as of now. Is there an update that will be more efficient for me? Actually it would be nice to know where to find the latest version being recommended?

If you have no problems, you don't have to upgrade. 5.8.16 is recent enough.
You can find the latest recommended version here.

Greetings,
Sander

I think this is amazing and simply wonderful! As more scientific evidence is revealed, the old attitudes are bound to change, don't you think?
Thanks for the link. :)

i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has discovered evidence of hydrocarbons on Saturn's moon Hyperion, scientists said Monday.

NASA said the Cassini spacecraft revealed, for the first time, surface details of Saturn's moon Hyperion that include cup-like craters filled with hydrocarbons. That discovery suggests a more widespread presence in our solar system of basic chemicals necessary for life, NASA scientists said.

Cassini also identified water and carbon dioxide ices on the moon, as well as dark material that fits the spectral profile of hydrocarbons.

More Info

Wouldn't it be interesting if microbes were found on Mars that contained DNA that shared similar patterns with DNA from the Earth?

I'm willing to speculate that is what will happen one day. Just speculation here, but I think the same thing likely may be found on Europa, Titan, and elsewhere.

Speculation here, but the commonality will be like the background noise. It is from the Creation of Nature itself.

(Belief that an Intelligence was involved with the Creation is, of course, a personal belief that can only be "answered" now by philosophy or religion.)

i think it is interesting to think about hidden messages within our DNA, but outside of the realm of science fiction it really isn't plausible. All of the evidence points towards our evolution from simpler organisms. Unless the responsible aliens inserted the message way back in the beginnings of life's evolution into simpler organisms. Then, however, they would have no way of knowing that said organism would evolve into dominant intelligence able to find said message. On the other hand, if they created human DNA then they must have created humans. Such an extraordinary claim would require overwhelmingly extraordinary evidence in order to overcome the established evidence of evolution. Also, were we to start looking for a message, i think, specious messages would start jumping out at us that aren't really there. With such an emotional enterprise at stake many people would be too willing to overlook the rigorous standards of scrutiny required to analyze such findings.

Nevertheless, I am all for starting an @home project to search the human genome and analyze our DNA. Not necessarily for messages, but to better understand the mystery behind the 'junk DNA' that seems so wasteful. There must be some purpose to it, or at least some of it. If anything, we'd better understand ourselves and our behavior if not our origins.

If one day, some random person who lives around the block from you built a "warp" drive vehicle, launched it himself, and did a test flight... and returned - then told, and showed to people what he had built.

How would that effect the world?

Think about it

here is something that may help understand the nature of the pre big bang universe. The shortest unit of time allowed by physics is the Planck Time, which is the amount of time it takes the speed of light to traverse the Planck Length (which is the smallest unit of distance allowed by physics and is equal to 1x10-34, or a decimal point followed by 34 zeros then a 1). The Planck Time equates to 1x10-44 seconds. Or decimal point followed by 44 zeros and a 1.

So, the earliest moment of time we can rewind to is the first Planck Time. that is 1 Planck Time after the big bang. at this moment the universe was the size of the Planck Length. No measurement could ever be made shorter than a Planck Time or Planck Length because from which NO information can escape or be retrieved. For all intents and purposes anything shorter than a Planck Time or Planck Length is a black hole.

Before the 1st Planck Time, the universe was an infinitely dense singularity. It was chaos from which nothing could be known or extracted. Having reached maximum entropy, it exploded to make room for more entropy. This is mandated by the Second Law of Thermodynamics which says that everything progresses increasingly towards more chaos. If a body has more entropy than is allowed it must create some sort of local order to create room for more chaos. This is the basis of the something from nothing theory.

So if that makes any sense, basically before the first Planck Time, time itself had no meaning. So to ask how long was the universe in this state of maximum chaos is asking the wrong question. It is meaningless. We need to ask, HOW did the universe get to that chaotic singularity state. Which is what string theory is attempting to answer.

It seems that you "believe" that they are out there. If so, we could find a signal any day, no? Why will it be so long? 500 years is a long time. I have a feeling that you don't think we are ready. They are just waiting for us "to grow up."

Hi!

Just speculation on when our technology will evolve enough to make it possible. Thats all...

Very interesting article and discussion on Bad Astronomy What happened before the Big Bang?

I keep saying it on this forum, the BIG key factor on looking for radio signals to do with SETI is not just where we look, or our technical abilities to receive detect and decipher what we might receive, but WHEN we look, which just happens to be now.

The length of time we have had access to technology is infinitesimally minuscule compared to the life of the galaxy and nearby detectable stars.

It's really down to luck at this stage.

Let's see, my professional take as a signals analyst. If I were to, without research on the subject, put out my guess as to why we aren't intercepting a signal...

1. Signal Strength, distance, and frequency..Completely random.

2. Even if you had a frequency somehow, adjusting for the Doppler effect.

3. Bits and pieces of said signal would be chipped at over insane distances.

4. Think of modulation as well, if it's a digital signal or analog. Personally it depends on what you are targeting.


a. A civilization that is emerging, and picking up their excess traffic not meant for our ears. "Think TV and Radio signals".

b. Signals meant to be sent out would mean at least an equal level of technology "give or take 20 years" and would lead me to watch for digital forms of modulation. Perhaps a Pulse Code Modulated Signal.

c. Some forms of signals drop below the noise floor, such as spread spectrum signals. As well as the sheer size of the spectrum when compared to the size of the universe. It will be hundreds if not thousands of years to pick a good chunk of it appart.


If I were to pick an area to concentrate on. Given the distances involved, the possibilities that can scatter the signal, and guessing that other life would do the same...

a.
I would search for high frequency pulse and/or FDM/TDM based microwave signals.

b.
I would also look for HF signals that could be bounced off objects in space. Though it might not be possible to locate said signals origins, any confirmation of such a signal is the first step. Sadly, such a search would be best conducted by a radio telescope version of the hubble space telescope. As such frequencies tend to hug the ground.



Just thinking in the open here, I haven't read most of what's in the forum yet. I haven't had time,(still in iraq).



Bill

Let's see, my professional take as a signals analyst. If I were to, without research on the subject, put out my guess as to why we aren't intercepting a signal...

1. Signal Strength, distance, and frequency..Completely random.

2. Even if you had a frequency somehow, adjusting for the Doppler effect.

3. Bits and pieces of said signal would be chipped at over insane distances.

4. Think of modulation as well, if it's a digital signal or analog. Personally it depends on what you are targeting.


a. A civilization that is emerging, and picking up their excess traffic not meant for our ears. "Think TV and Radio signals".

b. Signals meant to be sent out would mean at least an equal level of technology "give or take 20 years" and would lead me to watch for digital forms of modulation. Perhaps a Pulse Code Modulated Signal.

c. Some forms of signals drop below the noise floor, such as spread spectrum signals. As well as the sheer size of the spectrum when compared to the size of the universe. It will be hundreds if not thousands of years to pick a good chunk of it appart.

If I were to pick an area to concentrate on. Given the distances involved, the possibilities that can scatter the signal, and guessing that other life would do the same...

a.
I would search for high frequency pulse and/or FDM/TDM based microwave signals.

b.
I would also look for HF signals that could be bounced off objects in space. Though it might not be possible to locate said signals origins, any confirmation of such a signal is the first step. Sadly, such a search would be best conducted by a radio telescope version of the hubble space telescope. As such frequencies tend to hug the ground.

Just thinking in the open here, I haven't read most of what's in the forum yet. I haven't had time,(still in iraq).

Bill

(My background is in satcom.)

Excellent summary. I don't even begin to speculate on alien multiplexing, let alone modulation, though. Like you said, it is a lottery game that we will stumble across a signal that doesn't appear to have originated from any natural phenomena as we currently understand them. Key phrase being, "as we currently understand them". Even if a NB "beacon" were discovered, it will still be argued whether it could have been caused by natural phenomena. Unless, of course, the second lottery is won and intelligence is able to be extracted out of the signal.

How could they be representing intelligence on such a carrier? Maybe through one of the mechanisms that we are familiar (prejudiced) with or could be something completely, pardon the pun, alien!

If they are doing any "multiplexing" or "encoding" (for efficiency) on top of that then we are in even more trouble.

My main "problem" with SETI is exactly the same as you listed: the vast distances involved. Even if they were compensating for doppler (meaning they were "targeting" their audience), they still have to deal with the ISL.

Unless they found some sort of Holy Grail with either power generation or receivers, I find it hard to believe that any civilization (no matter how advanced) would generate the amount of power necessary to "broadcast" across interstellar space only to "waste" it.

I find it easier to believe that they (Class II+ civilizations) may take advantage of naturally occurring sources of tremendous energy (pulsars, GRB's, quasars, etc). Could something be embedded within them?

Or perhaps they are using some sort of propagation that we aren't entirely familiar with yet, such as gravitational waves.

Who knows...

Fun stuff to chew on, but don't hold your breath...

--------
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!

Cuts threaten world's largest telescope

Any more news on this?

The staff count has been reduced (layoffs), and the budget is (or is to be) drastically reduced.

Arecibo gets to be used pretty much only for only the presently funded ongoing surveys.

Anything more in the news?

Regards,
Martin

Try going here.

Have you read this article or have you tried such things? It sounds good for the amateur scene...

Electromagnetically Shielded Detector

Regards,
Maverick.

I find it hard to believe that every planet in the universe has be wiped lifeless by a super nova.

There is evidence that super novas happened near us in the past and here we are talking about it.

Things like that seem like an attempt at making us look special and that there is no one out there. I just don`t believe that.

I find all these rare earth reasons for us being here dubious. Something is just not right.

I agree that there has to be life elsewhere in the Universe, even if not in our own galaxy, but it isn't inevitable that every planet has to be wiped lifeless by a supernova, at least not now.

The supernova that have gone off in the last millennium have been far too far away to have any effect on us.

We actually owe our existence to them - up until about 10 billion years ago, there were no planets because planets coalesce out of the material produced in supernovae, and is one reason that we see the universe to be 13 billion years old. Life, and us just could not have existed in a universe just a few billion years old because there are few raw materials, everything is much closer together, the radiation environment is too high and the chances of collisions and fatal interactions much higher! Of course, some supernova will destroy life as well as enable it - it is a huge lottory.

Now things have quietened down a lot, and only in the last third of the Universe's history has life been possible - and we are extraordinarily lucky to be here to wonder about it, with all the amazing coincidences and circumstances to allow us to exist in our present (and temporary) form.

Conditions and circumstances in other regions will be vastly different and give rise to life forms that we may not even be able to recognize or communicate with, but a certain percentage will probably have some things in common with us.
Perhaps DNA has happened because it's simply the only way to store information between generations. I can't speculate on any other self replicating systems that can preserve so much information so resiliently for billions of years, and pack a hard disk's worth of information into each and every living plant or animal cell.

If a supernova goes off nearby in the future, oh well... we had our time, met our natural evolutionary end and lost, and the Universe will carry on without a pause... no other civilisation may ever know about us, and vice versa. Such is life!

Cuts threaten world's largest telescope

By DANICA COTO, Associated Press Writer Thu May 31, 8:46 PM ET

ARECIBO, Puerto Rico - Engineers will travel to this Puerto Rican coastal town in coming weeks to study whether to shut down the world's largest radio telescope, which was featured in the movie "Contact" but now faces steep budget cuts, observatory officials said Thursday.

Opened in 1963, the Arecibo telescope, a 1,000-foot-wide dish set in a sinkhole amid forested hills, bounces radio waves off asteroids and charts their location, speed and course. It has recorded a number of scientific discoveries, including the first planets beyond the solar system and lakes of hydrocarbons on Saturn's moon Titan.

But fears that it could face extinction began late last year, when a panel commissioned by the National Science Foundation, a U.S. federal agency, called for deep budget cuts and said officials should consider eliminating it entirely at the end of the decade.

Observatory officials said Thursday the impending study does not mean the complex will close entirely — at least not immediately.

"That's not our desire. But we are looking at this for planning purposes," said Richard Barvainis, program manager of the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, which includes the Arecibo observatory.

The Arecibo telescope appeared in "Contact," a 1997 Jodie Foster movie based on the Carl Sagan book about the search for extraterrestrial life. It also gained fame in the 1995 James Bond movie "Goldeneye," in which the telescope's platform, suspended like a giant steel spider 450 feet above the dish, figured in a climactic fight scene.

The telescope's budget will plummet from $10.5 million this year to $4 million by 2010, Barvainis said, with the savings going to construct a telescope 20 times more powerful, perhaps in Australia or South Africa.

Owned by the National Science Foundation and operated by Cornell University, the Arecibo facility is receiving a makeover to persuade federal officials to keep it open, including a $3.5 million paint job to keep its steel structure from corroding in the humid Caribbean air.

Officials said that regardless of what happens with the possible budget cuts, the telescope's visitor center, which draws about 120,000 people a year, would remain open.

I have to ask. When you say, "discovered many millions of potential positive signals," do you mean that we have not taken the time to "decode?" Being new to SETI, I thought that the term, crunching, meant sifting through electromagnetic radiation to find a signal that is "nonnatural."

Just finding signals that have extraterrestrial characteristics is just the beginning, and a great collection of these results have already been gathered.

In this form it doesn't actually tell anyone anything, except that a gaussian or a triplet was found at right ascension x, declination y with strength z. It sits in a database with the millions of others waiting for further examination, one day.

Finding out what they are and characterizing them is another thing. What are we looking for, and how will we know? What if ET aren't using the hydrogen line?

You might find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI also interesting even if it does still need some editing.