When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Scrooge McDuck
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Message 2141044 - Posted: 21 Sep 2024, 15:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 2141028.  

What do we do about Iran?
We hope they will not construct their own nuclear arms. Reminder… an ancient high culture. Each Iranian, I met in Germany was a well educated, thoughtful and respectable person… What Pakistanis can achieve, Iranians definitely can too.

The West is divided and many countries prefer to completely ignore the threat posed by Mullahs. We Germans want to trade with them; our Federal President congratulated the Mullahs on last year’s revolution anniversary. I call it schizophrenic politics, which imagines a peaceful world and then acts as if it already exists, if only one firmly believes in it.

Same with Russia until Feb 24 2022 which was a rude awakening; although, we are actually still asleep.

What do we do with Iran? Nothing... as long as that is possible.
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Message 2141046 - Posted: 21 Sep 2024, 15:48:37 UTC - in response to Message 2141038.  

Note also that a unilateral 'peace deal' is called either victory or appeasement. Israel has tried appeasement multiple times across the decades. All appeasements have lead to further death and strife. Every time.

Sounds just like Washington DC's many treaties with the First Peoples.
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Message 2141049 - Posted: 21 Sep 2024, 17:08:40 UTC

The thing I really can't stomach - particularly with the issues covered here in the last few days - is the attitude taken by the official spokespeople for the Israeli Government and military command (the intelligence services never speak in public, of course - the same as all other intelligence services around the world).

In all the televised interviews I've watched since this started, the Government and IDF representatives have never, ever, acknowledged anything except that their munitions are targeted on military personnel and locations exclusively. Even when answering a direct question from a foreign correspondent in an official news conference, they evade confronting even the possibility that a civilian population was co-located with the military target and even might have suffered collateral casualties. That refusal even to engage verbally with civilian issues disturbs me.

I've been feeling this for some time now, but today I read an article in my morning paper that touches on the same issues. It's an opinion piece by a regular staff columnist, not a news report by a correspondent on the ground, but I think it covers the issues more eloquently than I could. Have a read.

The pager bombing of Hezbollah was jaw-dropping. Will it make Israel safer? Not for long.

Jonathan Freedland wrote:
But if the Mossad and its political masters thought that position would be universal, they will have been disappointed. Instead, the attack has been branded indiscriminate in Europe and elsewhere because, inevitably, not every Hezbollah operative was alone when their pager exploded – some were close to civilians, including children – and because the fear it’s left behind in Lebanon does not discriminate. Ordinary people doing ordinary things in Beirut or Sidon now contend with a new anxiety, nervous around anyone with an electronic device who might just be a member of Hezbollah. Which is why the deputy prime minister of Belgium called Israel’s move a “terror attack”.
I won't quote the whole thing, but I will quote the last four paragraphs in full, in case you don't get that far.

The alternative route is diplomacy. Say that to most Israelis, and they’ll laugh in your face. “What, you want to do a deal with Nasrallah or Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas butcher of 7 October? Good luck.” Press them further and they’ll say that they tried compromise before, whether in the 1993 Oslo accords or the 2005 pull-out from Gaza, and look how that worked out.

But that is to miss an opening that has been there all along, one vividly demonstrated just a few months ago. In April, when Iran launched a drone and missile attack against Israel, it was thwarted not by Israel alone but a coalition that included Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Jordan, an arc of states united in their opposition to Iran.

A place alongside those allies, centred on normalisation with Saudi Arabia, is still available to Israel, if it chooses to take it. Joe Biden has put his name to it. The price will be Israel embarking on what the diplomats call a credible pathway to a Palestinian state, whose eventual creation is not only Palestinians’ obvious right but the essential precondition of Israel’s own long-term survival.

Netanyahu will not make that move. He remains fixated on his own grip on power, living from hour to hour. But one day an Israeli leader will have to do it. And when they do, that will be the most audacious security operation of all.
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Message 2141064 - Posted: 22 Sep 2024, 1:02:19 UTC - in response to Message 2141049.  

In all the televised interviews I've watched since this started, the Government and IDF representatives have never, ever, acknowledged anything except that their munitions are targeted on military personnel and locations exclusively. Even when answering a direct question from a foreign correspondent in an official news conference, they evade confronting even the possibility that a civilian population was co-located with the military target and even might have suffered collateral casualties. That refusal even to engage verbally with civilian issues disturbs me.
Either:
1) Civilian lives mean nothing
2) They don't believe there are any civilians

Either is pure barbarism.
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Message 2141079 - Posted: 22 Sep 2024, 12:01:48 UTC - in response to Message 2141064.  

Note that Hamas and Hezbollah magically transform into being "civilians" upon their 'martyrdom'...

Their use of the translation "civilian" has lost any useful meaning...


Meanwhile, indeed people are injured and are being killed.

How is it that the direct involvement of Iran, Hamas, Hezbollah, and others, is somehow not mentioned?


Instead:

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Message 2141084 - Posted: 22 Sep 2024, 14:08:04 UTC - in response to Message 2141079.  

Note that Hamas and Hezbollah magically transform into being "civilians" upon their 'martyrdom'...
Babies in the womb are magically Hamas terrorists until their mother is blown apart by munition.

Looks like it is 1, there are no civilians.
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Message 2141085 - Posted: 22 Sep 2024, 14:28:28 UTC - in response to Message 2141084.  
Last modified: 22 Sep 2024, 14:30:34 UTC

... Babies in the womb...

A 'better' more life friendly education needed for those babies?

A more life friendly education is needed by All in The Holy Lands!


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Message 2141101 - Posted: 22 Sep 2024, 20:46:27 UTC

Be prepared for more Israeli atrocities in the West Bank, but they really don't want the world to know about it.

Israel orders 45-day closure of Al Jazeera West Bank office.

The Israeli military has raided the offices of news broadcaster Al Jazeera in Ramallah, in the occupied West Bank, confiscated its equipment and ordered it to close for an initial period of 45 days.

Armed Israeli soldiers entered the building early on Sunday during a live broadcast.

Israel's military said a legal opinion and intelligence assessment determined that the offices were being used "to incite terror" and "support terrorist activities", and that the channel's broadcasts endanger Israel's security.

Al Jazeera "vehemently" condemned the closure and "unfounded allegations presented by Israeli authorities to justify these illegal raids", and called the move an "affront" to press freedom.

The Foreign Press Association said it was "deeply troubled" by the development, which it also said threatened press freedom.......
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Message 2141137 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 14:24:46 UTC - in response to Message 2141049.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2024, 14:26:37 UTC

From Richard's morning paper [the quoted four paragraphs]:
#1: hard to argue against Israelis' experiences of past decades. (Yes, I know what some immediately object: Palestinians experiences...)
#4: definitely describes Netanyahu's behaviour correctly.

#3: A place alongside those allies, centred on normalisation with Saudi Arabia, is still available to Israel, if it chooses to take it. Joe Biden has put his name to it. The price will be Israel embarking on what the diplomats call a credible pathway to a Palestinian state, whose eventual creation is not only Palestinians’ obvious right but the essential precondition of Israel’s own long-term survival.
While #3 is of course equally true, it leaves out one significant detail: the Mullahs, together with their dependencies (Gaza, Lebanon, ...) will do everything in their power to prevent this 'arc of states' from ever emerging. Because it would be more powerful than them. To ensure this, they will fight a two-state solution with all means at their disposal.
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Message 2141138 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 14:41:24 UTC - in response to Message 2141101.  

Israel orders 45-day closure of Al Jazeera West Bank office.
Just a curious question: During the years of US occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, were there any Al-Jazeera offices in Baghdad or Kabul? Perhaps not the closure of the West Bank office is a mistake, but the previous opening was.
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Message 2141140 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 14:56:29 UTC - in response to Message 2141138.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2024, 15:00:41 UTC

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_Media_Network

In 2001, Al Jazeera stood as the sole international news network broadcasting from Kabul, Afghanistan. Following the events of 9/11, there was a notable surge in demand for an English-language version of Al Jazeera. Consequently, the network began considering the establishment of an English-language service.
Here in the UK, Al Jazeera English is available on the primary land-based digital television broadcast network, alongside the traditional BBC, ITV, Channel 4 etc. networks.

edit: add 'free to air' to that list of attributes.

From further down the Wikipedia article:

The new English language venture faced considerable regulatory and commercial hurdles in the North America market for its perceived sympathy with extremist causes. The channel eventually secured carriage on a small number of cable systems in the United States, including one in Washington, D.C.
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Message 2141143 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 15:26:19 UTC - in response to Message 2141046.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2024, 15:39:48 UTC

Sounds just like Washington DC's many treaties with the First Peoples.
There cannot be fair treaties with first nations who didn't knew the concept of land ownership with exclusive rights for the owner, or the concept of state borders fixed in treaties. Same with Australia's history with Aborigines.

It is totally different in the Middle East. Alphabetic writing appeared there more than 4,000 years ago on the Sinai (Egypt), 3,000 years ago the Phoenician script (Phoenicia: today's coastal Syria, Lebanon and Israel), a precursor of Greek and Latin script. All the ancient empires there knew the concept of land ownership, as did the Osman Empire that exercised sovereignty over the region since the 16th century until it was passed to the British in 1917/18.
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Message 2141162 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 21:04:31 UTC
Last modified: 23 Sep 2024, 21:05:14 UTC

So... In the news just now... Israel calls Iran's bluff!

What next for Hezbollah?...

And yet more tit-for-tat for the Mullahs' Eyes-for-eyes...?


A forever war?

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Message 2141172 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 22:50:49 UTC - in response to Message 2141162.  
Last modified: 23 Sep 2024, 22:51:08 UTC

So... In the news just now... Israel calls Iran's bluff!
Iran didn't bluff. There was some supreme diplomacy by others that talked them out of the action. Got them to believe that revenge is a dish best served cold.

Benji needs Iran to attack so he can stay in power. I don't know if the supreme leader will stand by and bide his time. Chrome dome was not built to handle orbital speed projectiles.
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Message 2141173 - Posted: 23 Sep 2024, 23:25:08 UTC

Benji needs Iran to attack so he can stay in power.
In fact he's trying his hardest to get them to do that so that he can drag Israel's allies into WWIII with him.

There's also speculation of a deal being done when he paid Delusional Donny a visit which is why a lot of us don't expected Adolf Benji to go to the peace table before the U.S. elections are over.
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Message 2141180 - Posted: 24 Sep 2024, 11:45:49 UTC - in response to Message 2141162.  

What next for Hezbollah?...
They should leave the business of building houses to the real estate developers who know how to build inexpensive homes without a built-in launch pad for medium-range missiles. Such homes are a more sustainable investment and retain their value because they do not have to be rebuilt as often. Plus: less cement, less construction waste. Good for the climate... and above all, good for the Lebanese.
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Message 2141181 - Posted: 24 Sep 2024, 12:18:25 UTC - in response to Message 2141180.  

You should see the criticisms made by the occupiers of homes recently built in the UK by commercial builders! The terms of the legal agreement for occupation - ownership, leasehold, private rental, social rental, or anything else - don't matter: the quality is dismal. Fires, mould, subsidence, cracking - all are reported regularly, and nothing gets done.

Margaret Thatcher's great mantra - the private sector is the best answer to everything - has been disproved so many times over the years: but still the Tories clung to it. At vast cost.
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Message 2141183 - Posted: 24 Sep 2024, 12:51:48 UTC - in response to Message 2141180.  

I see the propagand eaten hook line and sinker
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Message 2141186 - Posted: 24 Sep 2024, 17:06:44 UTC - in response to Message 2141181.  

Margaret Thatcher's great mantra - the private sector is the best answer to everything - has been disproved so many times over the years: but still the Tories clung to it. At vast cost.
I shouldn't have written "inexpensive". That doesn't exist anywhere. I agree, most commercial builders are greedy sharks, tangled with local politics. [off-topic]
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Message 2141238 - Posted: 25 Sep 2024, 21:23:05 UTC
Last modified: 25 Sep 2024, 21:32:49 UTC

Just more proof that the U.S. is being complacent in genocide.

Blinken ignored US assessments that Israel blocked aid to Gaza.

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken ignored assessments by United States government agencies and officials indicating that Israel blocked US aid to Gaza earlier this year, a new report has revealed, with the top US diplomat presenting a different conclusion to Congress.

Investigative news outlet ProPublica reported on Tuesday that the US Agency for International Development (USAID) told the State Department in a late April report that Israel was subjecting US humanitarian aid destined for Gaza to “arbitrary denial, restriction and impediments”.

ProPublica said that officials in the State Department’s refugee bureau also found in April that “facts on the ground indicate US humanitarian assistance is being restricted”.

But in May, Blinken delivered a State Department report to Congress with a different conclusion.

“We do not currently assess that the Israeli government is prohibiting or otherwise restricting the transport or delivery of US humanitarian assistance,” the State Department said in its May 10 assessment.

The leaked memos would have had major implications on US policy had they been adopted by Blinken, including on US weapons shipments to Israel.......
Meanwhile Adolf Benji is in for a reception at the U.N. General Assembly that he isn't expecting.

Netanyahu Set For Another U.N. Showdown.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was forced to delay his scheduled speech to the U.N. General Assembly on Monday after his country launched the deadliest attack on its northern neighbor Lebanon since the invasion of 2006.

Just a year ago, Netanyahu stood at the podium of the U.N. General Assembly, heralding a vision of peace he claimed would reshape the Middle East. But as he prepares to return to that same global stage, the situation has drastically deteriorated.

Israel's devastating war in Gaza is nearing its one-year mark, while tensions with Hezbollah, the Iran-backed group in Lebanon, are pushing the nation to the brink of a broader regional conflict. Internationally, Israel finds itself increasingly isolated, led by a polarizing figure whose wartime policies have ignited protests both abroad and at home.

Adding to his burdens, Netanyahu faces the looming possibility of an arrest warrant from the International Criminal Court (ICC)—a move that would place him alongside controversial figures like Russia's Vladimir Putin and former Sudanese leader Omar al-Bashir.

"Netanyahu is arriving at the U.N. almost as a persona non grata," says Alon Liel, a former director-general of Israel's Foreign Ministry and a vocal critic of the prime minister......
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