When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Message 2135633 - Posted: 8 May 2024, 13:53:13 UTC - in response to Message 2135592.  

Was the kibitz in Palestine or Israel? Which line in the sand is the right line in the sand? Can a line in the sand move? Who can draw lines in the sand? Will anyone respect a line in the sand? Does the line in the sand change the status of the people who suddenly find themselves on the wrong side of it? Are they given full total rights like all others on that side of the line? Are they discriminated against Apartheid style? Does their religion ascribe they are "chosen" and always right and all others are "not chosen" and always wrong? It tit for tat adult?
The attacked Kibbuzim and towns were in Israel, attacked by thousand murderers and terrorists from Gaza, a territory ruled by Hamas. There's no point in discussing the validity of the line which separates Gaza from Israel (not turning back history). I rebutted the Apartheid argument recently. No progress possible from fundamentalist positions (which includes Likud's and right-wing orthodox settlement policy).

There will be peace when all conflicting parties accept to settle their differing interests peacefully. Until then it's 'tit for tat' because no one knows how to replace 'Might makes right' with an 'adult' policy for the Middle East. It took us centuries to learn that in Europe
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Message 2135637 - Posted: 8 May 2024, 21:35:26 UTC

'Nobody Is Above the Law', but some in their stupidity and hypocrisy are trying to pick and chose who are and who are not it seems as the ICC investigates Adolf Benji, his government and defense offense force over the war crimes that they have and are still blatantly committing.

Netanyahu War Crimes Investigation Puts Biden in Tough Spot.

An International Criminal Court (ICC) investigation into Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for possible war crimes committed throughout the ongoing war in the Gaza Strip would put U.S. President Joe Biden in a difficult position as the White House seeks to protect its ally from prosecution.

While neither the U.S. nor Israel are parties to the ICC's founding Rome Statute, concerns are mounting in both countries over the possible verdict of The Hague-based court's ongoing probe into suspected violations carried out within Palestinian territory, which is subject to ICC jurisdiction. The issue is potentially problematic for the Biden administration, which backed the ICC's decision last year to serve an arrest warrant to Russian President Vladimir Putin over the war in Ukraine despite neither Washington nor Moscow being formally affiliated with the international body.

"On Russia, there was a total consensus against Russian aggression and when you read the speech by the Americans at the Security Council, they were furious with [Russia] blocking the consensus to protect the law," Luis Moreno-Ocampo, who served as the first prosecutor to the ICC, told Newsweek.

"Now it's the U.S. which is blocking the consensus to apply the law," he added, "and that is a problem."

Moreno-Ocampo, who successfully prosecuted three heads of state during his nine-year tenure, said that he had evaluated opening cases on Israel but was twice asked by U.S. officials to halt the effort. And while he noted that the ICC should also move forward with investigations into reports of Hamas committing atrocities during the October 7 attack that sparked the conflict, he argued that any efforts to pressure international courts served as an impediment to global justice.

"We should not accept that the government says you cannot prosecute this individual because he is my friend. That is not what the world needs. No, I think it's a problem," Moreno-Ocampo said. "I think it is a serious problem because the U.S. policy is to protect its friends."........
War criminals are war criminals whether you are friends with them or not and justice must be served in the end.
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Message 2135652 - Posted: 9 May 2024, 4:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 2135633.  
Last modified: 9 May 2024, 4:57:06 UTC

The attacked Kibbuzim and towns were in Israel
Says who? Is it the Falklands or the Malvinas? Is it the Kalayaan Island Group or the Spratly Islands or the Paracel islands. It is the Senkaku Islands or the Diaoyu Islands or the Tiaoyutai Islands.

Until both sides completely agree, it doesn't matter what anyone else says as each side claims the moral high ground and is convinced they are 100% correct.

As long as each claims the other's land as theirs there will be violence and that violence will increase in frequency, depravity and lethality.

The only answer is a single state solution. To work that single state will have to be atheist.
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Message 2135715 - Posted: 10 May 2024, 20:29:31 UTC

The message has been sent, now it's time for the U.S. to pull into line.

Australia votes 'yes' at United Nations as Palestinian push for full membership gathers momentum.

* In short: A Palestinian bid for full membership of the United Nations gathered momentum on Friday, after a resolution passed through the organisation's General Assembly recognising it was qualified to join.

* A total of 143 nations — including Australia — voted in favour, while nine were against and 25 abstained.

*What's next: The vote doesn't grant the Palestinians full membership, but they have been given extra "rights and privileges"....
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Message 2135728 - Posted: 10 May 2024, 23:53:39 UTC

"Might have", you know that they have and still are so stop trying to coverup for Adolf Benji and his mob of genocidal land thieving maniacs.

State Department Says Israel Might Have Misused U.S. Weapons but Offers No Proof.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken delivered a written report to Congress on Friday about Israel’s war effort in Gaza, claiming its military may have potentially violated international humanitarian law. However, the State Department did not find any specific instances of Israel misusing American weapons to back those allegations.

While Israel has been accused of violating humanitarian law since the Hamas attack on October 7, the U.S. said it doesn’t have “complete information” on whether Israel misused its defense aid. The report covered Israel’s military actions from January 2023 to April 2024.

“Nevertheless, given Israel’s significant reliance on U.S.-made defense articles, it is reasonable to assess that defense articles . . . have been used by Israeli security forces since October 7 in instances inconsistent with its [international humanitarian law] obligations or with established best practices for mitigating civilian harm,” the report says, according to CBS News.

Though it did not find any reason to believe Israel is actively “prohibiting or otherwise restricting the transport or delivery of U.S. humanitarian assistance,” the assessment concluded that the Israeli government “did not fully cooperate” with the U.S. in initially permitting access to humanitarian aid in Gaza following October 7. The report noted, however, that there has been a “substantial increase” in Israel’s humanitarian efforts recently........
What a load of hogwash.
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Message 2135732 - Posted: 11 May 2024, 14:24:54 UTC
Last modified: 11 May 2024, 14:25:08 UTC

... And Hamas and Iran fight on, with no cares for people, or any 'rules' or any morality whatsoever...

Oh what to do for a good solution?


Appeasement never works.


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Message 2135739 - Posted: 11 May 2024, 17:25:10 UTC - in response to Message 2135732.  

Appeasement never works. What is Israel being given or stealing large hunks of land?
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Message 2135788 - Posted: 13 May 2024, 11:22:33 UTC - in response to Message 2135598.  

Don't deny that Germany isn't the 2nd largest contributor of arms to Adolf Benji after the U.S. and those supplying him are very much complaisant in this genocide.
I didn't deny it but stated facts and figures. My government supports Israel, even the leftist Greens who dislike Benji. I can't recognize a 'genocide'.

The difference between the Ukraine and Israel is that the Ukraine is defending itself against an aggressor while the Israeli government is the aggressor and Oct.7 was just another result of Adolf Benji's continual policies of government supported land theft from Palestinians and the murder of those Palestinians in the process of that continual land theft, both of which have greatly accelerated since then.
I strongly reject the notion Oct 7th was a defense against the 'aggressor Benji', 'land theft' or 'murder'. It was pure antisemitic terror and indiscriminate murder of civilians. Hamas is far too weak to endanger Israel but heinous enough for the worst imaginable horrors. Hamas' strategic goal was to force Israel to intervene and occupy Gaza; to achieve a permanent state of war at all borders of Israel; to sacrifice as many Palestinians as possible; to win the information front; to cut support for Israel. Hamas' leaders explained this strategy in public interviews. Disgusting. On Oct 7th it became obvious for everyone what Hamas is, what Hamas stands for. I have zero understanding of justifying such terror. Further discussion is pointless.

And no matter how hard you try to paint a different picture, outright genocide is all it is.
There's a definition in international law. The Holocaust was a genocide; the mass murder of Armenians between 1915-1916 in the Ottoman Empire was; the murder of Tutsis in Rwanda... No genocide in Palestine. Please stick to the facts.

So why keep on trying to defend the indefensible? Palestinians should have all the same rights that we enjoy, but the Israeli government won't allow that under any circumstances.
Palestinians should have the rights they define themselves in their future constitution. But peaceful relations with neighbours are required first to establish their own sovereign state (alternatively a military victory that destroys Israel). If you insist that all "Palestinians" (per UN definition) should have the right to settle anywhere in Israel, which means become citizens of Israel; that's a fundamentalist position. That is the demand to replace the State of Israel with an (inclusive?) State of Palestine for Israelis and Palestinians. But don't be fooled, that demand is nothing less than the one-state solution: 'from the river to the sea...'. Israelis know the civil rights Jews have today in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, ... There's no progress possible this way but further decades of hatred and misery.

I sometimes suspect the international supporters of Palestine can't clearly explain what their true intentions are:

  • a better future for Palestinians...
  • or fighting the evil Zionism, the Eternal Jew.

They can only achieve one, never both.

As for Al Jazeera, I rather their reporting over the top of the heavily censored/controlled 1 sided B.S. propaganda coming out of the Israeli media or of those external sites that want to keep on reporting from Israel or they'll be in the same position as Al Jazeera.
You clearly can't say that of e.g. BBC, CNN, major Western newspapers.
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Message 2135792 - Posted: 13 May 2024, 14:16:33 UTC - in response to Message 2135652.  

The attacked Kibbuzim and towns were in Israel
Says who? Is it the Falklands or the Malvinas? Is it the Kalayaan Island Group or the Spratly Islands or the Paracel islands. It is the Senkaku Islands or the Diaoyu Islands or the Tiaoyutai Islands.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Israel's sovereign state borders are recognized by international law, as well as Ukraine's borders or the sovereignty of the UK over the Falklands. Btw. 'Malvinas' means „Îles Malouines“... the islands of people from St. Malo, Brittany (France). Questioning state borders fuels revanchism and would ignite wars everywhere on the globe. You can't turn back history.

Civilized nations manage such conflicts through negotiations and mutual balancing of interests. It's aggressors who seek to gain national pride by e.g. attacking sheep farmers in the South Atlantic who settled there for a 150 years to force their flag on them.

Until both sides completely agree, it doesn't matter what anyone else says as each side claims the moral high ground and is convinced they are 100% correct.
Until the end of the 1960s the West German State claimed the sovereignty over the former German territories Pomerania, Silesia and Eastern Prussia (today: PL and RU), lost after WWII due to the Potsdam Agreement, a war crime by Stalin, approved by the UK and US. Millions of Germans were brutally expelled afterwards (1945-1947). But there can't be progress with ultimate demands based on moral high grounds, whose implementation would create new misery, new suffering, new injustice (towards other displaced people settling there since then). We Germans realized this after 20 years and came to a peaceful and final agreement with our neighbors, renouncing our morally and legally permissible but (after 20 years) unrealistic land claims. Why should it be different with Arabs (and Jews!) displaced in the war of 1948?

The only answer is a single state solution. To work that single state will have to be atheist.
Religion is a spurious argument. There's religious freedom in Israel. There isn't in Gaza, West Bank, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Kuwait, ... Christians are increasingly being oppressed there too. There never will be a single state solution which permanently respects the rights of Jews. There's no other state on Earth warranting civil rights and immigration to all Jews than Israel; but already many Arab states for Arabs. Unfortunately all Arab states are autocratic ones. What happens in such pre-modern societies if you introduce 'democracy' could be observed in Egypt and Gaza recently. The Islamists (or Hamas, which is identical) came to power only to abolish democracy. The citizens of Israel aren't keen of further such experiments with their society, with their own state; imposed on them by the international pro-Palestine faction. They only have one---their---state and nowhere else to emigrate. They will uphold it until the last day. Jews know about centuries of persecution. The pro-Palestine faction does not, or doesn't want to.

There never will be any solution which questions the sovereignty of Israel but only further decades of misery and hatred.
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Message 2135793 - Posted: 13 May 2024, 16:19:01 UTC - in response to Message 2135792.  

Israel's sovereign state borders are recognized by international law
A smattering of Judaeo-Christian European countries. However that is still irrelevant. The parties involved are the ones who have to agree, not some line drawing in the sand third party. Ask Pootin where the borders are? Ask Kim. Ask Xi. What percent of the world's population is that? What percent of the worlds nukes it that?

The parties involved have to agree. Study the crazy parts of the US Canada or US Mexico border. The treaty says one thing, but in practice the border is in another place. Never mind that land in is motion or bad old surveys. The parties have to agree. Not sand line third parties.

Ask yourself what Xi is doing in the South OF China Sea. The same thing Benji is doing. Me Me Me Me If I see it I grab it, like the common thief.
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Message 2135813 - Posted: 14 May 2024, 3:42:55 UTC

And yet Adolf Benji, his fascist government, their defense offensive forces and his sponsored settler mobs still prove that they can't restrain themselves as their war crimes keep on mounting up.

Intense fighting in Gaza's north and south as Israeli protesters attack aid convoy.

It's about time that all these greedy genocidal morons receive the same sanctions as PooTin and his murderous mob have got laid on themselves.
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Message 2135887 - Posted: 16 May 2024, 12:44:47 UTC - in response to Message 2135793.  

Israel's sovereign state borders are recognized by international law
A smattering of Judaeo-Christian European countries. However that is still irrelevant. The parties [...] have to agree [...]. Ask Pootin where the borders are? Ask Kim. Ask Xi. What percent of the world's population [...] of the worlds nukes?
Okay, nukes... 'Might makes right'. I thought the Allied victors of WWII, at least the US and UK wanted a different world order. They established the UN to ban imperialist aggression by means of a world community and mutually accepted rules. State borders are viewed as inviolable now. Xi and Putin... they will continue their warmongering until all their opponents are willing 'to agree'.

[...]Study the crazy parts of the US Canada or US Mexico border. [...] The parties have to agree.
Of all states you choose US and Mexico as an example? Well, the border was established in a fair balance of mutual interests, wasn't it? Nevada, California, Texas have always been American? No, the more powerful, the economically (and) militarily advanced society asserted its interests there and left the Spanish or later Mexicans no other choice than to cede vast territories where no Americans settled 200 years ago. It was 'Manifest Destiny' (American exceptionalism to expand westward up to the Pacific). The U.S. annexed Texas and forced a treaty on Mexico. Why did Mexicans 'agree' to such humilating conditions? They lost the war, their capital occupied, and were lucky to save at least 45% of their state territory. Poor oppressed Mexicans... Or look into Hawaii's history. [off topic]

Out of this perspective you could accuse Israel of being stupid for not using their superior military and economic power. In 1967 or at least on Oct 7th Israel could have exploited the unique opportunity of a war that was forced upon them to retaliate and to seize all ancient Jewish lands (see Likud party's objectives), like Judea, today known as 'West Bank' and to force a humilating treaty on so-called 'Palestinians' (difficult to negotiate a treaty with a non-sovereign entity). Btw. it's 'Judea' where the term "Jew" comes from. What hinders Israel's government? Democracy; the balance of powers, the liberal opposition. Imagine there were millions of Americans or British settling on the territory of Israel, being confronted with technological and socially backward Arabs who regularly wage wars against them. Everyone would be speaking English by now. What can be observed is that different standards apply to Israel than to any other country in the world. Israel is the evil that established an own, the evil state. It's antisemitism.

Ask yourself what Xi is doing in the South OF China Sea. The same thing Benji is doing. Me Me Me Me If I see it I grab it, like the common thief.
You can't compare Xi to Benji; different motivation. I try a change of perspective: The preeminent power of Asia, the millenia old Empire of China awaked from a centuries long, self-imposed isolation into a changed, an industrialized and imperialist world that exploited China's technological backwardness brutally for a 150 years. The British gone, China is today confronted with many close U.S. allies and many U.S. military outposts in the Western Pacific (China's claimed sphere of influence). The landlocked Middle Kingdom expands its reach into the Pacific which they, like Japan, missed to do as long as it was seen as the right of sovereign states in the age of empires (19th century).

Is it right or wrong what Xi is doing? Who decides? It is clearly directed against U.S. interests in the Western Pacific and aggressive against weaker (subordinate?) countries like Vietnam, Philippines. Xi ignores (20th century) established international law (that unduly restricts China, Xi would teach you). [off topic].
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Message 2135907 - Posted: 16 May 2024, 16:30:42 UTC - in response to Message 2135887.  

I see you forget the Spaniards forced their way onto Texas, California, Nevada and Mexico throwing out the Native Americans, as did the British, Portuguese, Russians and French elsewhere in America. All economic greed warfare.

Just look at the California Nevada border. Read about the Von Schmidt line.

There is more than one US city in Canada.

Does the Rio Grand flow in the same spot forever?

The people involved have to agree, not third parties drawing lines in the sand.
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Message 2136004 - Posted: 19 May 2024, 10:07:25 UTC

Reported, in several media outlets, that the UN has halved the total of women and children killed.

Gaza war: Why is the UN citing lower death toll for women and children?
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Message 2136015 - Posted: 19 May 2024, 14:44:58 UTC

Could have consequences as Iran is the country backing the terrorist groups.

BBC - Live - Helicopter in convoy carrying Iranian president crashes - state media
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Message 2136062 - Posted: 20 May 2024, 20:26:15 UTC

As arrest warrants are being readied Adolf Benji is screaming "antisemitism" yet again.

International Criminal Court chief prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Israeli PM and Hamas leaders over alleged war crimes.

The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) says he is seeking arrest warrants for Israeli and Hamas leaders, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, over alleged war crimes.

ICC prosecutor Karim AA Khan KC has made applications for the warrants, claiming he has reasonable grounds to believe Mr Netanyahu and Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant bear responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity during the Israel-Gaza war.

Arrest warrants have also been sought for Hamas leaders Yahya Sinwar, Ismail Haniyeh and Mohammed Diab Ibrahim Al-Masri for alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Both Israel and Hamas have previously dismissed allegations of war crimes.......
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Message 2136064 - Posted: 20 May 2024, 21:11:22 UTC

Nobody is above the law Mikey, even your crooked boss that you're trying to defend.

Mike Johnson Warns ICC Could Target US Leaders.

House Speaker Mike Johnson has warned that the International Criminal Court (ICC) could target U.S. leaders after it said Monday it plans to seek an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The ICC is pursuing arrest warrants for both Netanyahu and the Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, for their actions in the ongoing war in the territory. The charges against Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant are "causing extermination, causing starvation as a method of war, including the denial of humanitarian relief supplies, deliberately targeting civilians in conflict."

In a statement Monday, Johnson, a Louisiana Republican who has voiced support for Israel, criticized the ICC for seeking arrest warrants against Netanyahu as well as other Israeli leaders and suggested U.S. leaders could follow.

"In the absence of leadership from the White House, Congress is reviewing all options, including sanctions, to punish the ICC and ensure its leadership faces consequences if they proceed. If the ICC is allowed to threaten Israeli leaders, ours could be next," he said.....
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Message 2136139 - Posted: 22 May 2024, 22:01:06 UTC
Last modified: 22 May 2024, 22:49:14 UTC

Israel's fascist sham government is chucking yet another fit while the U.S. still carries on in its hypocritical ways.

Norway, Ireland and Spain to recognise Palestinian state, Blinken says he'll work with US Congress on potential ICC sanctions.

I expect that we maybe losing our local Mossad office very soon as well.

[edit]And they have no one else but themselves to blame.

The Number of Nations That Recognize Palestine Is Nearing That of Israel.
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Message 2136145 - Posted: 22 May 2024, 23:58:24 UTC - in response to Message 2136139.  

Ah, Benji is throwing another hissy fit tantrum when he is told to behave or be punished.
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Message 2136180 - Posted: 23 May 2024, 16:49:01 UTC - in response to Message 2136062.  

As arrest warrants are being readied Adolf Benji is screaming "antisemitism" yet again.

International Criminal Court chief prosecutor seeks arrest warrants for Israeli PM and Hamas leaders over alleged war crimes.
Israel is a constitutional state and its judiciary is independent. The Rome Statute (articles 17, 18) requires the ICC to give priority to the competent state judiciary. The ICC is acting politically here and trying to exert influence on an ongoing conflict. In a world that is rapidly moving away from the principles of democracy, the rule of law and international law (see Putin, Xi, Mullahs, ...), the ICC which is still only legitimate in parts of the world is trying to make a cheap political statement. What does the ICC achieve with this? Internationally and for Palestine: nothing. For the ICC prosecutor it is more important to beat at Israel now than to strengthen the principle of international law and to spread it in the world.

Within Israel, the ICC's decision is strengthening Netanyahu's position. The opposition is forced to support Benji. Israeli opposition leaders realize it would be them an ICC arrest warrant is requested for. The ICC is thus strengthening the hardliners in Israel and the antisemites around the world. Congratulations on such a far-sighted decision. An international court without any enforcement power cannot behave more stupidly.
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