When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Message 2128828 - Posted: 21 Nov 2023, 20:45:53 UTC

From a greedy and corrupt far right moron who came into power "promising to build more Jewish settlements in the West Bank and block the creation of a Palestinian state" his fall looks like it'll be spectacular (and it should be).

Inside the Netanyahu family's collapsing popularity, from burnt soup to corruption court cases.
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Message 2128829 - Posted: 21 Nov 2023, 20:52:59 UTC

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Message 2128951 - Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 1:07:07 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2023, 1:09:50 UTC

Hear, see, the reality of:

    Gaza,
    Hamas,
    Islamic Jihad,
    Hostages,
    People, Families,
    Israel,
    and the rest of the world:


... Sean Bell analysis


All very sobering and all too real.

What next?

How to get out of that??


Love, understanding, cooperation, life.

Stay safe folks...
Martin


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Message 2128953 - Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 1:18:53 UTC - in response to Message 2128829.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2023, 1:19:11 UTC

Too many want to believe Hamas’s hospital lies...

Yes... Why is it that the world's media are backing and encouraging Hamas?


... Advertising click-bait?...

And people and families and the world be damned??

Stay safe folks?
Martin
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Message 2128979 - Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 15:32:21 UTC

Ah, I see that Jews humans are valued three times Palestinian humans.

Is this the problem?
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Message 2128983 - Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 18:39:46 UTC - in response to Message 2128979.  

Or is it that Hamas are three times more greedy ruthless in their bartering?...


Stay safe?
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Message 2128991 - Posted: 24 Nov 2023, 20:48:19 UTC - in response to Message 2128983.  

Or is it that Hamas are three times more greedy ruthless in their bartering?...
Same
Doesn't matter which side, just that different value is placed on identical humans that pray to the identical god.

The problem is that some humans see other humans as either worth more or less than another.
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Message 2129000 - Posted: 25 Nov 2023, 0:37:39 UTC - in response to Message 2128979.  

Ah, I see that Jews humans are valued three times Palestinian humans.

Is this the problem?
Rumor has it that Israel had proposed exchanging at least 100 imprisoned Palestinians for each Israeli hostage. But the more ideologically steadfast murderers and terrorists among the Palestinians in Israel's prisons rejected such a deal as unethical because, as they explained, every human, Palestinian and Jew, is valued the same. Back in 2011, during the last hostage exchange returning Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, Israel brutally enforces that Gilad's life was more valuable than that of 1,000 Palestinian convicts. They insisted on 1,027. Since then, the value of Jewish humans has fallen, down to the current factor of only one for three. A few more liberation campaigns by Hamas, like the one on October 7th, and Israel will finally have to accept that Palestinian and Jewish humans are equally valuable, i.e. a factor of 1:1. That is, a three years old child hostage is as valuable as an imprisoned Hamas murderer. At least that's Hamas' strategy, as rumor has it.
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Message 2129001 - Posted: 25 Nov 2023, 0:48:56 UTC

But what about all those many Palestinian men, women and children that are spending 25yrs in jail just for throwing stones at settlers who are ripping up their fields, orchards and homes and then the Israeli police and soldiers move in with bulldozers in retaliation and stones then get thrown at them also, but instead of throwing stones the Israeli's fire bullets and send them to a life time in the slammer.

Now how fair is that?
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Message 2129005 - Posted: 25 Nov 2023, 2:10:33 UTC

Poverty is only part of the problem, the other is when the other part does not know when to stop, and here the Arabs.

But also that some are more moderate, and here countries like Jordan and Egypt, so it becomes that of Iran for secluded.

And here not Iran directly involved right now so I should be careful, but that religious Ideologies and motto are are reason why conflicts could sometimes spread.

The Palestinians want their own land because they were internally displaced after the Jews were given the area after Second World War.

It should be better living as a single nation without any conflicts, but next the Israelis also has to stop harrassing and intimidating the Palestinians.

So here I think it is a failure of the BBC to list the West Bank on the map, because that only goes in favor of the Palestinians.

Only that the Gaza strip is self-governed by means of negotiations and so it should also be when land should also be government for that of governance.

Just ruling is a too strong word because you make it dictatorship for such, and here I do not think that Netanyahu is any dictator.
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Message 2129050 - Posted: 25 Nov 2023, 21:45:40 UTC
Last modified: 25 Nov 2023, 21:55:09 UTC

The simplicity of 'blame' simply doesn't work.


Untangle this reality:

Son of Hamas Co-Founder Denounces Group at UN, Exposes 'Savage' Indoctrination of Palestinian Kids

"Why is this not obvious to everyone?!"

Infuriating... Desperate.

(And the UN gets denounced also...)

... A very desperate upbringing...

What next?

What cowardly feeble fools we are?


Be excellent to one another and all!
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Message 2129099 - Posted: 27 Nov 2023, 6:54:50 UTC

What does history suggest about Benjamin Netanyahu's vision for Israelis and Palestinians?

That the little snake can't be trusted to do the right thing.
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Message 2129110 - Posted: 27 Nov 2023, 18:29:27 UTC

For a little more background:


How Hamas built a force to attack Israel on 7 October
wrote:
Five armed Palestinian groups joined Hamas in the deadly 7 October attack on Israel after training together in military-style exercises from 2020 onwards...

... They practised hostage-taking, raiding compounds and breaching Israel's defences during these exercises, the last of which was held just 25 days before the attack ... and ultimately execute a raid into Israel which has plunged the region into war...

... As the most powerful of Gaza's armed groups, Hamas was the dominant force in a coalition which brought together 10 other Palestinian factions in a war games-style exercise...

... Three groups - PIJ, the Mujahideen Brigades and Al-Nasser Salah al-Deen Brigades - claim to have seized Israeli hostages on that day. Efforts to extend the temporary truce in Gaza were said to be hinging on Hamas locating those hostages.

While these groups are drawn from a broad ideological spectrum ranging from hard-line Islamist to relatively secular, all shared a willingness to use violence against Israel...

... We know from videos and harrowing witness statements that both tactics were used to capture soldiers and target civilians on 7 October, when around 1,200 people were killed and an estimated 240 hostages were taken...

... Fighters were filmed riding in the same type of white [UN colours?] Toyota pickup trucks...

... Before 7 October, Hamas was thought to have about 30,000 fighters in the Gaza Strip, ... also thought that Hamas could draw on several thousands of fighters from smaller groups...

... Israel would have been aware of the joint training drills but "reached the wrong conclusion", assessing they amounted to the "standard" activity of paramilitary groups in the Palestinian territories, rather than being "indicative of a looming large-scale attack"...



The dangers and costs of living next to avowed terrorists?...

Stay safe folks?...
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Message 2129119 - Posted: 27 Nov 2023, 19:48:25 UTC - in response to Message 2129110.  

The dangers and costs of living next to avowed terrorists?...

Yes but just who is one.
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Message 2129120 - Posted: 27 Nov 2023, 20:01:52 UTC

Yet the Israeli terrorists are carrying on as usual (if not more so).

West Bank: Eight Palestinians killed during Israeli raid.

Israeli settlers steal Palestinian farmers’ land in occupied West Bank.

Israeli state and settler violence grows in the West Bank.

So what really triggered Oct.7 is still continuing at an unabated pace by Benji's terrorists. :-(
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Message 2129156 - Posted: 28 Nov 2023, 14:07:07 UTC

Wiggo, I accept and understand your arguments.

But I don't think Oct 7th was ignited by that. It wasn't planned by Hamas either, but by Iran. They wanted to achieve a joint aggression of Hamas, the other Palestinian terrorist groups from Gaza, Hezbollah from Lebanon and the Houthis in Yemen. The horror and limitless brutality in Israel was planned and intended to trigger a sufficiently large Israeli counterattack that would then give Hezbollah, maybe Syria the justification to intervene. Hezbollah only backed off because of a US aircraft carrier and an amphibious ready group off its coastline. In addition, the Islamists have been hoping for decades to infuriate appropriate unrest among the young, fanatical population of moderate arab regimes. They want to put Egypt, Jordan and other Arab states in such turmoil that their governments are forced to take sides or fear a coup. The Oct 7th horror has “Iran” written all over it.
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Message 2129158 - Posted: 28 Nov 2023, 14:17:51 UTC

OT. Friend of a friend is in Beijing attending a conference. China wants to know all about Iran's nuclear capabilities. Now why does China need an American to tell them that? I suspect they are more interested in Iran's partner Kim and what he knows.
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Message 2129207 - Posted: 29 Nov 2023, 15:55:21 UTC

Noone understands reality better than when you live there in that reality and face that reality every day...


See, hear:

Israel 'lacks a clear strategy' to get Hamas out of Gaza

Quite a personal yet broad assessment. Noone is seen in a good light. There's some rather stark comment there of the present realities. Self-righteous angry teenagers with guns and impunity are never a good idea. Especially so when there are multiple highly polarized opposing groups of 'em...

And then also there is this (remote?) comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BByKSAhPdK8&lc=Ugyfb0C8TKeIaFIV-NR4AaABAg
wrote:
Very interesting take on things. She seems to categorize everyone with a large paint brush. For example saying that not one Israeli would want Netanyahu to continue as pm is a gross generalization. I know a number of people who hated Netanyahu and certainly voted far left of him but now are actually relieved that he is running the show.

Hamas is absolutely in control of the West Bank. I know guys who their families are in the PA police force in the West Bank and they all say that Hamas is really in charge and they, as Palestinian policemen have to turn a blind eye to what Hamas does, under pain of death.

Her analysis is very comforting to western media but doesn’t actually reflect any reality on the ground.



Meanwhile... See, hear, the ongoing in the ways of Hamas:

Father of 9-year-old hostage reveals what daughter told him after her release


And Elon Musk gets to see a small part of that reality:

"See Extent Of Massacres and Destruction" Hamas Invites Elon Musk To Gaza After Israel Visit



Reality comes next?

How do we get out of that?...


Be excellent to everyone!

Stay safe folks?
Martin
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Message 2129265 - Posted: 30 Nov 2023, 17:25:12 UTC - in response to Message 2129207.  
Last modified: 30 Nov 2023, 17:33:25 UTC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BByKSAhPdK8&lc=Ugyfb0C8TKeIaFIV-NR4AaABAg
wrote:
[...]
Hamas is absolutely in control of the West Bank. I know guys who their families are in the PA police force in the West Bank and they all say that Hamas is really in charge and they, as Palestinian policemen have to turn a blind eye to what Hamas does, under pain of death.
I'm surprised. I wouldn't have thought that the PA, i.e. the PLO, would be so powerless today against Hamas or Islamic Jihad even in the West Bank territory. If so, there will be no two-state solution as long as this reality prevails. There can't be a sovereign Palestinian state which is incapable or unwilling to disarm terrorists. So, any Western or Arab politician who loudly calls for a two-state solution is a fantasist... out of touch with reality, too lazy to think, and incapable of developing realistic political concepts. Such politicians and such demands solve nothing.

Some say Netanyahu resp. Likud had an interest in "pandering" Hamas to divide extremist and moderate Palestinians to prevent the Palestinian state. Likud's policy is the one state solution... some kind of Apartheid state... always was. Netanyahu, unlike many previous Israeli PMs, doesn't believe in a future of peaceful coexistence and he fundamentally distrusts all Palestinian leaders. So he prevented the Palestinian state but he didn't divide Palestinians. Now it seems the majority is pro-Hamas and worldwide support is increasing. Netanyahu has failed completely.
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Message 2129280 - Posted: 30 Nov 2023, 20:46:53 UTC
Last modified: 30 Nov 2023, 20:47:07 UTC

There are Consequences:

European officials ‘deeply concerned’ for Muslims amid surge in attacks
wrote:
... agencies to remain alert for hate crimes against Muslims and “spare no effort” to protect them, in one of the first statements aimed at addressing a rise in Islamophobia amid the Israel-Hamas war.

The statement, signed by representatives from 10 European countries as well as EU officials, notes the rising number of hate crimes, hate speech and threats to civil liberties that have targeted Muslim and Jewish communities across Europe...

... Addressing Islamophobia in particular, the group said it was “deeply concerned” for Muslims. “Such phenomena, if not addressed, can threaten social cohesion within our societies and can expose vulnerable communities to further harms,”...


Here's hoping for better cooperation and understanding and genuine love.

Be Excellent to one another!
Martin
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Message boards : Politics : When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?


 
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