When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Scrooge McDuck
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Message 2140338 - Posted: 7 Sep 2024, 0:49:38 UTC

Netanyahu defies protests to dig in on ceasefire deal.
The hostages were killed after efforts to reach a ceasefire apparently broke down over Israel’s demand that it retain control of the Philadelphi corridor, a strip of land along Gaza’s border with Egypt.

But Netanyahu said in a televised address on Monday that Israel needed to control the Philadelphi corridor to prevent Hamas smuggling weapons into Gaza.

“This corridor is essential for our existence,” he said. “For this reason Hamas is insisting on it. And for the same reason I’m insisting on it.”
What will be the chain of events? What is expected to happen first with any deal? How much time between? Weeks, months, a year? Guarantees?

  1. Israel withdraws all troops from Philadelphi corridor and also from all areas of Gaza
  2. Hamas releases ALL remaining hostages


The latter? Clearly not! So it has to be the first. What then hinders Hamas from 'smuggling' at least a dozen remaining hostages to Egypt? No worries, Egypt will prevent this... just as it has prevented smuggling of large rockets into Gaza since 2005...

No, these hostages would disappear never to be seen again somewhere in Lebanon, Syria, Yemen or Iran... and every now and then, on birthdays, a hostage video appears.

That is why the Philadelphi corridor became a non-negotiable red line for Israel until ALL hostages are released. Independent if Biden likes it or not. Benji is not stupid.

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Message 2140345 - Posted: 7 Sep 2024, 5:18:37 UTC - in response to Message 2140337.  

A military occupation is a fact that must be ended diplomatically, not through protests or attacks against occupation forces.
"occupation" criminal action. There is no diplomacy, Benji wants to steal more land. That leaves a military solution to the occupation say "through protests or attacks against occupation forces."

Or is it morally fine to occupy a people for several decades?
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Message 2140361 - Posted: 7 Sep 2024, 21:11:29 UTC

Adolf Benji and his mob of Nazi butchers are not feeling the love of their people as protests against them get longer, larger and louder.

Netanyahu's spectacular downfall from Mr Security to Mr Death may not be enough to kill his political future.

Netanyahu has built a proud reputation of being known as Mr Security, but now there's a new moniker that's being attached to him — Mr Death.

The phrase has been screamed and shouted across Israel this past week at some of the largest anti-government protests in the country's history.

Hundreds of thousands of angry demonstrators who swarmed the streets hurled an unending stream of disdain towards their prime minister.

They criticised his leadership, the government's handling of the Gaza war and the failure to rescue hostages, with a ceasefire deal or otherwise.

"He is Mr Death. And the people around him are his cabinet of death," one protester told the ABC.

"He's abandoned the hostages in Gaza and left them to die," another screamed.

"Hamas might pull the trigger, but the people of our government, led by Benjamin Netanyahu, are the murderers," cried another.

The watershed moment was sparked after the bodies of six hostages were recovered from Gaza, including that of Hersh Goldberg-Polin, the American-Israeli who'd become the face of a global hostage release campaign.

The Israeli military said the group had been executed by Hamas militants about 48 hours before being found.

Israelis exploded in desperation, grief and anger at the news.

There was a feeling of disbelief that six hostages, who were alive and could have been returned to their families, had instead been brought back in body bags because a hostage-release deal hadn't been made.

And they blamed one man above others for securing the deadly fate of the hostages: their prime minister.......
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Message 2140368 - Posted: 7 Sep 2024, 22:17:48 UTC

U.S. support for Adolf Benji's mob and Joe's friendship for the murderer is going downhill faster.

Democrats Rebuke Biden Admin After American Killed by Israeli Soldiers.

President Joe Biden's administration is facing new criticism from Democratic lawmakers after news broke that Israeli soldiers shot to death an American woman in the West Bank on Friday.

Aysenur Ezgi Eygi, a 26-year-old Seattle resident who also held Turkish citizenship, was shot in the head by Israeli soldiers while attending a demonstration on the West Bank against Jewish settlement expansion, the Associated Press reported. The regular protests have previously turned violent, and Eygi was fleeing to safety after clashes broke out between Palestinians and Israeli soldiers when she was shot.

Eygi's death is the most recent loss related to the Israel-Hamas war that has united many Democrats who are against providing U.S. aid to Israel. Democrat lawmakers again called for action on Friday.

"3 U.S. citizens have now been killed in the West Bank in 11 months. There MUST be justice & accountability," Senator Chris Van Hollen posted on X (formerly Twitter). "The Netanyahu gvt hasn't provided that & the Biden Admin needs to do more to obtain it. Those responsible must be held accountable & the DOJ must take action if necessary.".......
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Message 2140424 - Posted: 9 Sep 2024, 14:48:48 UTC - in response to Message 2140345.  

A military occupation is a fact that must be ended diplomatically, not through protests or attacks against occupation forces.
"occupation" criminal action. There is no diplomacy, Benji wants to steal more land. That leaves a military solution to the occupation say "through protests or attacks against occupation forces."

Or is it morally fine to occupy a people for several decades?
West Bank would still be occupied by Jordan had that regime not decided to wage war against Israel in 1967. Since then it has been occupied by Israel. I see no crime in that, just as I can't see a crime in Germany's decades-long occupation after WWII. The first step of "de-occupation" of Gaza in 2005 clearly demonstrated Israel that a unilateral (non-diplomatic) path does not lead to peace. Only diplomacy can achieve that. Who stopped the Oslo Peace Process in 2000? It was PLO's Arafat who silently left the room without signing the decisive agreed map (two state solution) after he publicly declared to accept the proposal; a cowardly dwarf who neither kept his word nor explained his sudden change of opinion. Diplomacy needs diplomats.... not former terrorists or paranoid leaders like Benji who fundamentally distrust everyone, both out of their life's experience.

You say there is a 'military solution' to occupation, well... this results in the death of those who try it.

We also wanted to get rid of our (Soviet) "Friends" (350...400K occupation forces) here in East Germany, at least since June 17, 1953. As a child I still witnessed Soviet convoys driving through my hometown a few times each year; armed guards at road junctions.... fighter pilots who often broke the sound barrier... those men, who were above all laws. But everyone understood that protests or violence will not bring the occupiers out of the country. In the East German revolution of 1989, one mantra was omnipresent: "no violence". The Soviet leader refused to overrun peaceful protests with Red Army forces, East German regime's generals rejected such demands as well.

Gandhi instead of Che Guevara. Why don't Palestinians understand that after so many decades? I suspect they have a disturbed memory; suffer from extremely poor leaders, and are poorly advised by their international supporters (like e.g. Mullahs).
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Message 2140427 - Posted: 9 Sep 2024, 15:18:06 UTC - in response to Message 2140361.  

And they blamed one man above others for securing the deadly fate of the hostages: their prime minister.......
Benji forced Hamas terrorists to shoot six hostages in the head? He left them without any alternative than to murder them? May I doubt the neutral view of this journalist?
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Message 2140438 - Posted: 10 Sep 2024, 0:44:41 UTC - in response to Message 2140427.  
Last modified: 10 Sep 2024, 0:45:24 UTC

Benji forced Hamas terrorists to shoot six hostages in the head?
Absolutely. It makes his people demand he negotiate. Diplomacy is strange.
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Message 2140454 - Posted: 10 Sep 2024, 7:39:05 UTC - in response to Message 2140438.  

Benji forced Hamas terrorists to shoot six hostages in the head?
Absolutely. It makes his people demand he negotiate. Diplomacy is strange.
That is not the definition of diplomacy but of blackmail.

Our (West German only) experience on communist extremists, terrorists, and the Palestinian plane hijackers (e.g. [1], [2]) associated with them from the 1970s is: never give in to blackmail or it will get worse... No negotiations, no deals.

All state resources, police, secret services, are being directed towards finding the perpetrators and bringing them to justice. Those who cannot be arrested are confronted by the Federal Police's anti-terror unit; which was created just for these terrorists. This way we achieved peace in the country. Two terrorists are still hiding somewhere, but they no longer represent a threat.

Of course Israel needs diplomacy to achieve peace but the type of "diplomacy" Gary suggests, leads nowhere.
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Message 2140456 - Posted: 10 Sep 2024, 8:12:08 UTC

Of course Israel needs diplomacy to achieve peace but the type of "diplomacy" Gary suggests, leads nowhere.
And that's exactly where Adolf Benji's so called "diplomacy" leads to, nowhere.

Bullets, bombs, genocide, land theft and lies by the bucket loads is all that that fascist terrorist Adolf Benji and his murderous mob knows well as "diplomacy". They are a cancerous growth that needs to be removed if peace in the region is ever to be had.
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Message 2140469 - Posted: 10 Sep 2024, 17:35:39 UTC - in response to Message 2140456.  
Last modified: 10 Sep 2024, 17:37:58 UTC

I'm not going to defend everything that Benji has ordered, but I will defend some of his requirements, because there can never be peace in that area as long as the terrorist organisations have belief in the "From the River to the Sea" principle and have access to weapons which they send into Israel.

And this bombs, genocide idea. Several weeks ago there was an accurate strike in Iran that killed a Hamas senior person. Iran threatened all sorts or dire repercussions. What happened to these repercussions?
Nothing why not?
Because Iran recognises that when Israel strikes it is almost certainly accurate, and they don't want to be the next target.

And when you study everything about Israeli actions, all the way back to 1967, that I know about, but maybe even earlier. Israeli strikes have been accurate when attacking outside of Israel. I don't believe that they can be so accurate outside the Israel area and inaccurate in Gaza.
Therefore, the explanation for, the so called, genocide has to be because the strikes are accurate, but the terrorists hide behind the general population.
Which suits Iran and the terrorists, because they can exaggerate the numbers and get many people to sympathise with their losses and call for action against Israel and also convince other countries that Palestine is a country and Hamas is its government.

The area originally called Palestine is populated by three groups, Islamic Arabs, Other Arabs, such as the Bedouin and Jews. The other Arabs make up 20% of the population of Israel, and there are Bedouin units within the Israeli armed forces.
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Message 2140476 - Posted: 10 Sep 2024, 21:18:14 UTC

And this could've just been 4-5 old men sitting in a group playing cards, but some Israeli though that enough for them to be Hamas so they dropped a 2000lb bomb on the camp.

Israeli air strikes leave craters in Gazan tent camp as dozens dead and injured.

An Israeli strike on a crowded tent camp housing Palestinians displaced by the war in Gaza killed more than 19 people and wounded 60 early on Tuesday, officials said, as Israel said it targeted senior Hamas militants with precise munitions.

Israel said it had struck a command centre for Hamas fighters who it said had infiltrated the humanitarian area in al-Mawasi, a vast camp on sandy soil where the military has told hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to shelter since ordering them out of their homes. Hamas denied any fighters were present.

The Gaza Health Ministry, which compiles casualty figures, said hospitals had so far received 19 bodies, with other victims under sand and on roads that rescuers could not reach.......
Meanwhile Israel also uses the term "From the River to the Sea" bit as well.

We also know that Mossad has their assassins and death squads that arn't afraid to dress as Palestinian women to get their man so why use 1000-2000lb bombs on refugee camps that are suppose to be safe zones declared by Adolf Benji and his Nazi mob? That's just their usual excuse that's used when thinning out the herd.
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Message 2140486 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 0:04:45 UTC - in response to Message 2140476.  

We also know that Mossad has their assassins and death squads that arn't afraid to dress as Palestinian women to get their man so why use 1000-2000lb bombs on refugee camps that are suppose to be safe zones declared by Adolf Benji and his Nazi mob? That's just their usual excuse that's used when thinning out the herd.
Imagine you are a Hamas leader who sets up a temporary command post somewhere in Gaza. Where do you place it? And remember Hamas is a terror group which does not care a second about civilians... to the opposite... the more bloody horror, more dead children.... the better for Hamas' propaganda clips.

So where are Hamas command posts, now that most of the hospitals, UNRWA schools, UN buildings have been searched by IDF ground troops, its underground tunnel shafts destroyed?

And not only the Mossad 'assassins' (no military force btw... but an intelligence service) but also the IDF send squads to Gaza which were dressed as Palestinian refugees, fluent in Arabic... not to kill Hamas fighters but to infiltrate a neighborhood unseen in order to free hostages from a dungeon. You can condemn that as a clear violation of the rules and customs of war. But Israel's opponent is not a sovereign state, not an army, but an irregular terrorist group. It would be the task of a police anti-terror unit if the terrorists did not have the structure, manpower and weaponry of an army.

A 'safe zone' is only a 'safe zone' as long it is not used by Hamas fighters to e.g. launch rockets, store ammunition, or operate command posts. These same accusations repeat again and again from day one. Why do IDF ground troops attack and enter hospitals? Why do they bomb selected rooms in UNRWA schools? Why a stockyard in close vicinity of a large refugee's tent camp which resulted in a large fireball and lots of falling debris (but surprisingly no visible bomb crater)? Why drop 2,000 lbs bombs from an expensive supersonic fighter jet instead of sending an infrantry platoon to search a peaceful tent camp in a safe zone. A hundred times the same 'why?'

There's Hamas propaganda which each day preaches us: deliberate murder of refugees, of NGO personell, of doctors, of journalists, of all the morally superior people of Palestine... a clear and undeniable genocide.

And there's the opposite explanation: a professional military force gradually reduces Hamas' military infrastructure, destroys its combat units, ensures the reliable removal of its dug in leaders, while protecting the civilian population as good as possible. A sovereign state fends of a dangerous threat and enables its opponent's brainwashed population (or rather 'immature' serfs) a different future.
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Message 2140490 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 0:48:02 UTC

And I think that you believe far too much of Adolf Benji's lying propaganda instead of facts from other sources like the many countries and sections of the U.N. itself to start with.

Adolf Benji and his Nazi mob could've ended this long ago, but (just like Donny) is prolonging this genocide just so that he and others of his mob can try to dodge facing the judges of Israel for their crimes.

Why do you think that hundreds of thousands of his own people are taking to the streets protesting each day against him, could it be because they can actually see the truth behind it all that you refuse to accept and try to defend?

Ever since the early 60's I've listened to and see what's been going on over there and IMHO it has been a clusterf%#*k from the being, 1 of the last bred by the British Empire and 1 of many of growing list by the "American Experiment" and it's well past time for it to be corrected in a fashion that both sides are regarded as equals instead of the 1 sided B.S. that continues to grow.

I wonder how you would like being a Palestinian living under an apartheid system all your life. I know that I certainly wouldn't.
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Message 2140494 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 5:19:02 UTC - in response to Message 2140486.  

You can condemn that as a clear violation of the rules and customs of war. But Israel's opponent is not a sovereign state, not an army, but an irregular terrorist group.
But they are the government of Gaza. Just because Benji says they aren't doesn't make it so. Just because the Palestinian Authority claims to be the government doesn't make it so. Just because some in the west can't fathom that terror like acts are the only method they have to fight off their land stealing oppressors.

Ukraine isn't far from being there itself. PooTin bombs like Benji but the west likes Zelenskyy, they don't like Hamas. Wonder if they are prejudiced over a religion?
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Message 2140496 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 7:19:51 UTC - in response to Message 2140494.  

Isn't Zelenskyy a Jew.
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Message 2140498 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 7:53:45 UTC - in response to Message 2140496.  

Isn't Zelenskyy a Jew.

And what does that have to do with Israeli brutality?
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Message 2140510 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 14:29:30 UTC - in response to Message 2140490.  
Last modified: 11 Sep 2024, 14:31:07 UTC

other sources like the many countries and sections of the U.N. itself to start with.
The U.N. lost any credibility as a world authority in this conflict decades ago. The UNRWA, intertwined with Hamas on all levels, is just the topping on the cake. Imagine an initiative to dissolve the state of Israel (a sovereign UN nation)... would surely achieve a two-thirds majority vote in the UN General Assembly.... this cabinet of curiosities.

Adolf Benji and his Nazi mob could've ended this long ago, but (just like Donny) is prolonging this genocide just so that he and others of his mob can try to dodge facing the judges of Israel for their crimes.
Benji could have refrained from invading Gaza at all? Impossible, as Israels whole society; its statehood was challenged (as intended). So he could've ended it after ~3 month; or after the first heavy battles? Or after the latest prisoner/hostage exchange which Hamas ended prematurely? Hamas did not free all non-IDF female hostages as was agreed on. Why should you lessen the pressure on terrorists who do not even participate in direct credible negotiations (just cable demands and conditions via puppets) when they still hold a hundred of your citizens hostage in dungeons. That would be stupid.

Okay, let's assume such a stupid step: Withdrawal from Gaza and the Philadelphi corridor for a BS deal on a sheet of paper. What exactly could have ended then? Remaining hostages freed? What's the benefit for Hamas to free ALL of them? No more rocket attacks? No more deadly incursions into Israel to murder Kibbuzniks, no more hostage taking? What's the incentive for Hamas to change their habits? No; a time loop would occur: rewind back to Oct 7th, rebuild, rearm and start again, just better armed, better prepared. Events will repeat as long as Hamas has not achieved the goals written in their Charta. When did the PLO stopped the terror and became a party you could at least talk with to achieve a peace treaty? After Israel defeated them completely, forced them out of Lebanon and continued to hit them abroad.

Why do you think that hundreds of thousands of his own people are taking to the streets protesting each day against him, could it be because they can actually see the truth behind it all that you refuse to accept and try to defend?
It is the same reason why hundreds of thousands pro-Palestine protestors fill the streets of Chicago, East Coast university cities, California.... social media... biased journalists... biased reporting. Most of the Nova festival folks; young people; most of the Kibbuz inhabitants were progressive supporters of peace, opponents of Likud; which did not hinders Hamas from killing and torturing more than thousand of them. The many thousand survivors now understand the truth behind Palestinian terror: a death cult that indiscriminately murders every human being... also Muslims, Thai, ... Europeans, Asians... all humans in Israel are targets. The survivors will be there for another 60...70 years to teach the younger generations... just as Holocaust survivors did. So there's no way back before Oct 7th. Hundreds of thousands on streets are relevant but not a majority.

Ever since the early 60's I've listened to and see what's been going on over there and IMHO it has been a clusterf%#*k from the being, 1 of the last bred by the British Empire and 1 of many of growing list by the "American Experiment" and it's well past time for it to be corrected in a fashion that both sides are regarded as equals instead of the 1 sided B.S. that continues to grow.
The Arab Jewish antagonism is even older than the British conquest of ~1917. In the multi-ethnic Ottoman Empire Jews were a minority of 'non-believers' who had to pay special capital and property taxes, became oppressed, dependent on the good nature of their Sultan. As non-believers they were no equal citizens like Greeks or Armenians. The Greeks regained their national sovereignty from centuries-long Turkish oppression in the 1920s due to the favourable outcome of WW1. Israel gained sovereignty after WW2... It is history now, investigated by historians; collecting dust in archives. But what started in the 1960s is the Arab realization to be incapable to eliminate the tiny Israel militarily, even with vast support from USSR. This contradicts radically with their religious beliefs and duties. So before helping to fight a global Intifada to eliminate Israel, we should teach Arabs what a secular society is to calm down their ongoing tenseness and anger. It's that simple.

I wonder how you would like being a Palestinian living under an apartheid system all your life. I know that I certainly wouldn't.
It's clearly not an apartheid system, especially not in Gaza. To the opposite: Hamas' rule over Gaza is on the outside a religiously fundamentalist regime, but on the inside a brutal, deadly totalitarian one, that crushes any dissenting opinion since decades. Hezbollah in Lebanon is not much different; only lacks the totalitarian grip over all parts of the country, so people there retain the option to flee the war zone. The people of Gaza must be freed from this fascist regime; regardless of what the majority there thinks about it. At the moment, that cannot be reliably determined anyway. It is the only way to improve things for Palestinians in Gaza; to end Hamas reign; to enable a different future.

If I would live in Gaza, I would, not different than you, obey to Hamas' rule... or get crushed.
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Message 2140513 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 16:09:58 UTC

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Message 2140521 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 20:38:38 UTC

McDuck your denials are noted and all are found to be wanting.
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Message 2140526 - Posted: 11 Sep 2024, 21:33:09 UTC

Meanwhile Adolf Benji's genocidal mob are still using the same old worn out excuse to cover their atrocities.

Israeli Airstrike on UN School in Gaza Kills at Least 34, Hospitals Say.

An Israeli airstrike hit a United Nations school in central Gaza on Wednesday killing at least 34 people, including 19 women and children, hospital officials said.

The strike targeted the al-Jaouni Boys Preparatory School in the Nuseirat refugee camp, which was sheltering displaced Palestinian families, officials said.

The Israeli military stated it was targeting Hamas militants who were allegedly planning attacks from within the school. This claim has not been independently verified.

At least 14 dead from the strike, including two children and a woman, were brought to Awda and al-Aqsa Martyrs hospitals nearby, officials from the facilities said. At least 18 people were wounded in the strike, they said.......
When will the west finally show some humanity and step on Adolf Benji genocidal actions? He's only doing this to try and avoid spending the rest of his life in jail and those supporting his actions certainly have no morals of human decency.
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