When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

Message boards : Politics : When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 . . . 37 · Next

AuthorMessage
bluestar

Send message
Joined: 5 Sep 12
Posts: 7104
Credit: 2,084,789
RAC: 3
Message 2127152 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 19:29:41 UTC

So if an even part for only separate nations, it could become a war for still only holding for not any keeping.

Rather unequal for not any equal, and next it became terms for also Premises for the way a war could perhaps be fought.

This conflict could be still about territory, but also that it could be about races for also cultures, including religious Belief.

That of Muslim for their Belief is still more pious or moderate than Islam, so here I felt sorry when the earthquake hit Indonesia back in 1994.

So here it does not become a question of any hatred for still only the harsh Ideology carried out by Islam when still Israel acting in self-defence.

Rather it becomes when such Ideology could be trampling down on the Israelis for only their right to own their land.

So here Turkey becoming a formidable neighbor when still not carrying out any active war against enemies.

Only that different factors also becomes that of Chaos, and next it only becomes unpredictable.
ID: 2127152 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30764
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2127170 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 0:59:20 UTC - in response to Message 2127141.  

Now a flood of pictures have come out. Yes there is a crater, so there was an explosion. The size is too small for a high explosive warhead. It however is larger than the photos i've seen of verified katooshia rocket explosions. We also know that it was not a ground based explosion as both sides now agree on that. As the debris seems to have miraculously disappeared, we may never know what weapon it was.
ID: 2127170 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20532
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2127172 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 1:04:47 UTC - in response to Message 2127170.  

... As the debris seems to have miraculously disappeared, we may never know what weapon it was.

All very suspiciously suggesting a self-inflicted hit...


Stay safe?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2127172 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19168
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 2127173 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 3:42:58 UTC

Interesting video by Ryan McBeth on the hospital incident where he asks questions based on various scenarios and asks you to make your own scores so that you can make decisions more logical.
Investigating the The Gaza Al Ahli Hospital Strike (YouTube Cut)
ID: 2127173 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 35245
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2127177 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 5:18:19 UTC

All very suspiciously suggesting a self-inflicted hit...
But was it?

To me and some others this looks like ordinance that was meant to detonate metres above ground level so that most of the blast wasn't meant to create a crater (except for it's tip), but instead create a maximum blast/fire wave around the surrounding area (yes, just like a nuclear bomb).

So now, who has such weaponry?
ID: 2127177 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19168
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 2127185 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 8:00:27 UTC - in response to Message 2127177.  
Last modified: 19 Oct 2023, 8:09:00 UTC

All very suspiciously suggesting a self-inflicted hit...
But was it?

To me and some others this looks like ordinance that was meant to detonate metres above ground level so that most of the blast wasn't meant to create a crater (except for it's tip), but instead create a maximum blast/fire wave around the surrounding area (yes, just like a nuclear bomb).

So now, who has such weaponry?

I don't see any shrapnel damage to the cars.

Damage after Israeli airstrikes https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/10/12/photos-show-scale-of-the-destruction-of-israeli-air-attacks-on-gaza

Nothing like that at the hospital site, where's the severe damage to buildings.
ID: 2127185 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20532
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2127187 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 12:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 2127177.  

... fire wave...

There is now very clear footage posted showing a series of rockets being fired from within Gaza that climb on an arc flying over the hospital.

Except, one of the flame trails ends early and disappears. No flash or bang of an intercept.

Seconds later in the same continuous shot, the car park area of the hospital is seen to burst into flames. Again, no big bang, more of a widespread flat mushroom of flames.

To my eye, that very much looks like the result of an improvised rocket...


Stay safe folks?
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2127187 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30764
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2127190 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 13:10:38 UTC

As predicted, Israel is pounding the safe zones it declared.

When will they declare Gaza annexed?
ID: 2127190 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14657
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 2127192 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 13:53:07 UTC - in response to Message 2127190.  

Agreed - words (in public) often contradict deeds on the ground and in the air - especially, on the Israeli side, which should know better.

That's why I expressed some sympathy with Hamas earlier in this thread: they have a real and legitimate grievance. Terrorism isn't the right response, but what would be, given that Israel is deaf to their view in talks, and lies in their own replies?
ID: 2127192 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14657
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 2127193 - Posted: 19 Oct 2023, 14:05:15 UTC

This doesn't help.

US vetoes UN’s call for ‘humanitarian pause’ and corridors into Gaza

The US has used its veto at the UN security council to block a resolution calling for Israel to allow humanitarian corridors into the Gaza Strip, a pause in the fighting and the lifting of an order for civilians to leave the north of the besieged territory.
...
The US ambassador to the UN, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, said the resolution, carefully crafted by Brazilian diplomats, was unacceptable because it made no mention of Israel’s right to self-defence. The UK abstained, saying the resolution lacked mention of the way Hamas was using ordinary Palestinians as human shields.
ID: 2127193 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30764
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2127236 - Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 5:51:13 UTC

Facts are the first causality. Now it isn't an airplane dropped munition, it is a failed iron dome interceptor missile.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/19/what-hit-ahli-hospital-in-gaza

At least both sides say it was a off course missile.
ID: 2127236 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30764
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2127256 - Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 12:56:23 UTC
Last modified: 20 Oct 2023, 12:57:11 UTC

I note here in the USA there are large protests by Jewish people against the government of Israel, calling for an immediate cease fire.

vengeance is mine sayeth the lord
ID: 2127256 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 818
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2127272 - Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 22:24:21 UTC - in response to Message 2127256.  
Last modified: 20 Oct 2023, 22:34:03 UTC

I note here in the USA there are large protests by Jewish people against the government of Israel, calling for an immediate cease fire.

vengeance is mine sayeth the lord
From the other side of the pond, I noticed large protests in Chicago as well as many student protests at a couple of East Coast universities. So many protesting against Israel's government?

I noticed here in Germany there are large protests of fanatical Hamas supporters among our hundreds of thousand Arab refugees. There are also quite many progressive, left-wing students who are demanding an end to the 'German Holocaust complex', or even: "Free Palestine from German guilt!" They utter anti-Semitic slogans and loudly welcome the Hamas murders of Israelis. Stones are thrown. Barricades are burning in Neukölln, large smoke clouds. Two incendiary devices were thrown at a synagogue at 3:45 a.m. by masked people, despite police guards. They exploded right in front of the building. Maybe next time... The morning after, a scooter driver violently broke through the police cordon in front of the same synagogue, tried to pull an object out of his bag. Twelve residential buildings in which Jews live had the Star of David daubed on their facades. All games of the Jewish football club “TuS Makkabi” have been canceled; security can't be guaranteed. Now they're playing again, under police protection. Jews and Israelis declared they refrain from speaking Hebrew in public; they feel threatened. They avoid revealing they are Israelis. They no longer use their smartphones displaying Hebrew script in the subway. An Israeli restaurant was spat on by a mob, its windows were kicked, guests threatened. Maybe they want to bring white paint next time, painting a slogan on the glass front: "Don't eat at Jews!" or “Don’t buy from Jews!”? Fortunately, the idiots' knowledge of German is not yet sufficient for such complex sentences.

German Jews and Israelis are hiding again, in Berlin, in Germany, in 2023.

I refrain from Bible quotes, as I said.
ID: 2127272 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 35245
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2127273 - Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 23:39:42 UTC

So many protesting against Israel's government?
Because their actions over the decades are wrong and have just led to this happening and the west has allowed them to get away with land theft and murder (genocide) for far too long and until wannabe dictator Benji and his mob are brought into line it will only further escalate out of control.

A full 2 state solution must be imposed whether the far right Israeli government of crooks likes it or not and they've been trying very hardest to avoid this ever happening.

I refrain from Bible quotes, as I said.
Silly religious quotes have caused more than enough unwanted damage in this world already so that is a very good idea and should be heeded by all. ;-)
ID: 2127273 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
bluestar

Send message
Joined: 5 Sep 12
Posts: 7104
Credit: 2,084,789
RAC: 3
Message 2127275 - Posted: 20 Oct 2023, 23:54:11 UTC
Last modified: 20 Oct 2023, 23:55:19 UTC

But if it was a misfiring, also it could be with intent, and next the Palestinians becoming victim of another enemy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

So here the Gaza Strip is self-governing Palestinian territory inside Israel after long negotiations.

The only here is that it is the Palestinians becoming enemy of the United States and Israel, and therefore not having other enemies.

So here I perhaps could define which land or area Israel is supposed to hold by means of a sovereign state, and also the way the United Nations see it.

If it could be still enemies, also it could be a two-part state solution, and next it could be still hostile enemies around.
ID: 2127275 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 818
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2127281 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 2:46:03 UTC - in response to Message 2127112.  

https://www.aljazeera.com/

This medium has become a propaganda medium, I can't see it any other way. It lacks any neutral perspective, spreads untruths and hatred; a means of warfare.
Sadly to say that many seem to feel that way especially when uncomfortable truths are revealed that most western media refuse to admit too and try to avoid, but they're quick to pick up Benji's lies as being the truth.
Which of Benji's lies I'm picking up? You are picking up and spreading Hamas propaganda lies. Don't you see it?

It's a lot like those so called "beheaded babies" that there is still no proof of ever happening, but many around the world fell for just because Benji said it did (very sadly babies did die, but they were shot), though there were a few Israeli soldiers that were beheaded.
So, Benji lied that babies were beheaded, when in reality they were simply shot. Israel lies that children had their necks slit, when in fact their fingers were cut off in front of their parents' eyes, their father's eye was torn out, and their mother's breast was cut off before they were all shot. Not children, but a pregnant woman's stomach was slit open, the unborn baby dragged out, stabbed, the mother shot. It's good that we have put these Israeli propaganda lies straight here and now know the ultimate and verified truth. Sorry, but that's disgusting.

Yossi Landau, of ZAKA, Israel's search and rescue organization reported what he saw in Kibbutz Be'eri:
The part, I quoted starts at 02:40m.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/17/first-responders-hamas-attack-israel-diamond-pkg-tsr-vpx.cnn
"The father and mother were sitting on the floor with their hands tied behind their backs, opposite a boy who was maybe seven years old and a girl who was five or six years old, who were also tied up,” says Landau. "They were tortured. The father was missing an eye, the boy was missing two fingers, the mother was missing a breast." All four family members were ultimately shot.
“As we walked along, we saw a pregnant woman whose stomach had been slashed,” “The unborn baby, which was already well developed and still connected by the umbilical cord, was stabbed and the mother was shot in the back. We asked ourselves, was the mother still alive when the baby was murdered or did they kill her first?”
You may want to listen to Yossi Landau, still at Kibbutz Bee'ri:
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-war-recovered-bodies-show-bloodthirsty-gunmen-took-time-over-torture-and-that-hamas-has-changed-12985212

Are these Benji's lies? Is Yossi Landau a liar?

But many news sites around the world are now questioning who else other than Israel had ordinance powerful enough to cause the level of destruction caused to that hospital.
Let me shed light on the mystery: The Islamic Jihad launched a salvo of rockets near the hospital to Tel Aviv. One was malfunctioning, crashed to the ground, hit the parking lot. There, between 20 to 50 people died from the huge blast, the fireball created when either rocket propellant or its incendiary warhead exploded. The hospital was not destroyed, nor was the historic Greek church from today's reports. That has been Hamas lies, Hamas propaganda. Surprisingly, a large number of western news services, TV stations, newspapers uncritically see Hamas as a reliable source these days, without proof, without a second source. Also the main TV channels in Germany, especially their realtime social media teams weight creditability of Hamas higher than Israel's government.

A journalist of TV channel "Phoenix" (discussions, politics, news), jointly operated by major German broadcasters ARD and ZDF, felt compelled to vigorously contradict the Israeli ambassador live on TV, saying his statement is only his personal opinion, but Hamas had reported different. These people don't even notice when they demonstrate their total incompetence, live on TV.

Mass media reporting of unverified reports from a single source, plus from an unscrupulous terrorist organization known for decades, has the potential to set the world on fire.

That's what I was talking about: I'm not advocating for less Hamas propaganda and more of Israel's instead, but rather this:

You can recognize a good journalist by the fact that he keeps his distance from the subject of his observation; that he does not associate himself with a thing, even with a good thing; that he is always there, but never belongs to.
--- Sir Charles Wheeler, CMG (1927-2008), British journalist, joined BBC 1947, longest-serving foreign correspondent until his death.

It's people like him, from which the first postwar generation of German journalists learned, in Germany and at BBC, London, so that never again state propaganda and its lies can brainwash the people.
ID: 2127281 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 818
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2127285 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 3:22:38 UTC - in response to Message 2127273.  

So many protesting against Israel's government?
Because their actions over the decades are wrong and have just led to this happening and the west has allowed them to get away with land theft and murder (genocide) for far too long and until wannabe dictator Benji and his mob are brought into line it will only further escalate out of control.
I think that's only the motivation of the few educated western left. Since the 1960s this political spectrum agitates against evil Israel. But these people who wave their black, white, green, red flags, who are aggressively shouting: Palestina will be free, from the land to the sea. They don't support a two state solution, but one state, their state. They demand to destroy Israel. We've seen how that looks like. They are celebrating Hamas, cheering the mass murderers. I haven't heard islamic organizations in my country condemning it. PLO's Mahmoud Abbas? They are so silent. That's why these protests are being banned in an increasing number of European countries and the ban is also being strictly enforced by police. Not an inch to anti-Semites! Never again!

A full 2 state solution must be imposed whether the far right Israeli government of crooks likes it or not and they've been trying very hardest to avoid this ever happening.
I fully agree with you on this.

I refrain from Bible quotes, as I said.
Silly religious quotes have caused more than enough unwanted damage in this world already so that is a very good idea and should be heeded by all. ;-)
They are part of our culture, our spoken language, even mine. Especially the old (psalms?) from the old testament are suitable to illustrate or refer to the history of ancient times, without any evil or unwanted indoctrination. But, what do I know about faith or religion? Nothing.
ID: 2127285 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30764
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2127297 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 5:01:24 UTC - in response to Message 2127281.  

I'm not surprised by the violence. When you commit atrocities on a people for over a decade, there will come a time when karma will operate. Karma has operated. More karma is coming. Karma never is equal and likely becomes a feedback loop.

This is not an excuse. However it is a fact. Ignore it at your own peril.
ID: 2127297 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 35245
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2127311 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 6:55:38 UTC
Last modified: 21 Oct 2023, 7:01:30 UTC

Some should stop thinking about Hamas and start thinking about the Palestinian people themselves as some are showing a misplaced favouritism bordering on racism.

Now lets get this correct, Hamas, Hezbollah and Benji's government are all nothing but terrorists and it's as simple as that.

I refrain from Bible quotes, as I said.
Silly religious quotes have caused more than enough unwanted damage in this world already so that is a very good idea and should be heeded by all. ;-)
They are part of our culture, our spoken language, even mine. Especially the old (psalms?) from the old testament are suitable to illustrate or refer to the history of ancient times, without any evil or unwanted indoctrination. But, what do I know about faith or religion? Nothing.
A stain on world IMHO that needs to end. You go through all the books and they're all full of endless hypocrisies which right wing governments use to their advantage when it suits them. As to history, that's very open to debate.
ID: 2127311 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Profile Mr. Kevvy Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 May 99
Posts: 3777
Credit: 1,114,826,392
RAC: 3,319
Canada
Message 2127313 - Posted: 21 Oct 2023, 11:51:20 UTC - in response to Message 2127285.  

They are part of our culture, our spoken language, even mine. Especially the old (psalms?) from the old testament are suitable to illustrate or refer to the history of ancient times, without any evil or unwanted indoctrination. But, what do I know about faith or religion? Nothing.


Religion has been the greatest tool of social control ever devised since it was invented, to the point that this is probably the reason it was invented, or at least organized out of private individual worship (sometimes contradictory to its own founders) in the first place.

There is no place this is more evident than in warfare; it wouldn't usually be easy to get young men to throw their lives away for old men's lusts for power and land, but when they've been lied to basically since birth that somehow they will go a magical place forever if they die serving those old men's lusts, they become compliant, thus the obsession to get their "holy" books and indoctrination and prayers into schools as soon as possible. "There are no atheists in foxholes" should really be a compliment that they've been wise enough to avoid being there.

Non-religious autocracies get around this by elevating the leader or the state to the same position that would be held by a god or church, often with many of its same trappings. North Korea is a good example.
ID: 2127313 · Report as offensive     Reply Quote
Previous · 1 . . . 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 . . . 37 · Next

Message boards : Politics : When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.