When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?

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Scrooge McDuck
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Message 2127095 - Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 22:55:05 UTC - in response to Message 2127092.  
Last modified: 17 Oct 2023, 23:02:43 UTC

All far too true.

The mask is off: Gaza has exposed the hypocrisy of international law.
This Al Jazeera opinion article by Wesam Ahmad confuses cause with reaction. Equating Russia's aggression against Ukraine with Israel 'attacking Gaza' is wrong. In over a thousand words the entire article makes no mention of Hamas' previous mass murder of ~1,400 Israeli civilians. This disqualifies the article and its author. Israel has a right to self-defense, which includes fighting the attacker. Russia obviously does not. Mixing this up is pure propaganda.

Sorry, I'm sensitive to this from experience. When I was at school in communist East Germany, I learned that the Soviet Union, the peace loving power, keeps the peace in Europe in contrast to the warmongering Americans, NATO and their evil Pershing missiles. This also reversed cause with reaction: Communist propaganda.

The article then delves into the history of Western empires and their misdeeds. It is strikingly reminiscent of Putin's justification of Russia's aggression against Ukraine based on events that occurred centuries ago and by distorting history. Slavery was not only practiced by European colonial states, as suggested, but particularly by the Islamic world. Muslims operated and controlled the slave trade in Africa long before Europeans became their customers. They brought at least as many slaves to the Arab world as the Europeans brought to America. Only they prevented their reproduction, so that today there are no descendants of slaves there.

The rest of the article is characterized by a demand for a new, a just and equal international order. Imperialism and imperial dominance are redefined here and now manifest in the fact that a great power assists a weaker power against attacks by directly defending it or supplying it with weapons. As a result, the great power unduly interferes in the desired fair, equal and respected rivalry between states, regardless of their size or geopolitical significance.

This article paves the way for a wolf world where it is once again the sovereign right of states to wage wars of aggression against their neighbors in order to found new empires. No, never again!
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Message 2127096 - Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 23:10:34 UTC
Last modified: 17 Oct 2023, 23:13:42 UTC

... No, never again!

Was not that said immediately after WWII?

Until the next despots are bought up with appeasement until they all-too-soon explode upon the world...


More (non-violent) education and understanding and genuine compromise and cooperation needed.


However... There is the first problem of those who seized power in Iran and their need for war to keep in their richly corrupt power...

I think I need to update my 'appeasement' mantra to expand to:

Neither appeasement or containment ever work.

Especially in such a deadly political world...
Martin
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Message 2127097 - Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 23:13:29 UTC
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 0:00:50 UTC

https://www.aljazeera.com/

This medium has become a propaganda medium, I can't see it any other way. It lacks any neutral perspective, spreads untruths and hatred; a means of warfare.

[EDIT to add:] There are ~280 articles discussing the "Israel-Gaza war" of whom are SIX articles on the Hamas massacre of Israel's civilians, the last one from Oct 12, long since buried in the chronological timeline:


I affirm this, it's a propaganda medium, a warfare tool against Israel, against the West.

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Message 2127101 - Posted: 17 Oct 2023, 23:43:24 UTC - in response to Message 2127073.  

Perpetrators?

Here I do not agree with you, but also that I do not want to derail the discussion either.

I post here for not in my own thread for not associating this project with any meaning I could have on my own.

But also letting news sink in, and here I do not think that the missile that hit the hospital came from the Israelis, but more from some other hostile enemy.

I still tend in factor of tilting with Israel, but the little girl crying was a hard thing to watch for also poverty well known.

When that of equal sharing for only limited space, it also should be better to live in peace when still perhaps Israel occupying.

Still tit-for-tat for a couple of things when also a mishap, but I trust the IDF for saying that they are not hitting civilian targets deliberately.

This is a setup by others for only making things worse or blowing it up for that of proportions.

The problem here is that some make it only land for others territory when it could be still occupied land.

So when only local for a conflict it also could be regional, for also ending up with an international conflict at worst.

Therefore still poverty a thing which should be avoided, but here it could also be others being poor right now.

One could be wondering whether the Israelis are still only Arabs for the internal conflict it could be.

Here the Holocaust killed a million of Jews when still living at different places, except what happened was only suspected by a few.

All except one death camp was lying on now territory which now should be Russia, except rather Poland instead.

Therefore still territory the word I could use here, for not taking it any literally.

Of course I know it was the Soviet Union that time, and therefore that Germany and Soviet became enemies for only different Ideologies.

Please do not confuse any Communism for only Nazism taking place for occupying, because it was Soviet that was attacked.

Only that a continuation of war becomes continuation of history, for only being that of other proportions.

So just history written for only a continuation of a story, and I could be cynical for a meaning and not making it any others.
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Message 2127110 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 1:04:32 UTC - in response to Message 2127097.  

[EDIT to add:] There are ~280 articles discussing the "Israel-Gaza war" of whom are SIX articles on the Hamas massacre

Try that with AP, UPI, AFP, Reuters, BBC, DW, NHK, RT, Tass and tell me how many articles there are on Israel attacks on Hamas vs. Hamas on Israel. Who is a propaganda hack?

Now for a propaganda machine try https://www.timesofisrael.com/ or https://www.jns.org/
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Message 2127111 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 1:13:32 UTC

Fact it was a hospital.
Fact lots of dead innocent human beings.
Fact cause is explosion.

Unknown what exploded.
Unknown who caused it.
Unknown accidental or on purpose.

Claim fingers point at each other "It was them, the bad guy."

Both sides have massive reason to not want the truth out.

Predict the winning side will write the other side did it.

Lament, the power was out so no security cam footage.
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Message 2127112 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 1:41:56 UTC

https://www.aljazeera.com/

This medium has become a propaganda medium, I can't see it any other way. It lacks any neutral perspective, spreads untruths and hatred; a means of warfare.
Sadly to say that many seem to feel that way especially when uncomfortable truths are revealed that most western media refuse to admit too and try to avoid, but they're quick to pick up Benji's lies as being the truth.

It's a lot like those so called "beheaded babies" that there is still no proof of ever happening, but many around the world fell for just because Benji said it did (very sadly babies did die, but they were shot), though there were a few Israeli soldiers that were beheaded.

But many news sites around the world are now questioning who else other than Israel had ordinance powerful enough to cause the level of destruction caused to that hospital.
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Message 2127113 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 1:52:42 UTC - in response to Message 2127111.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 1:56:35 UTC

Further fact is that at that precise time, multiple rockets were being fired from nearby with those rockets climbing up over the hospital...

So...

Was that a misfire from terrorists/extremists in Gaza?

Deliberate fire onto the hospital from within Gaza?

Or a missed intercept from Israel?

Or really a deliberate target hit from Israel?


Regardless, that hospital was very deliberately put in the line of fire by those launching deadly rockets indescrimently from nearby behind the hospital...


All in an atrocious game of deadly politics...

Stay safe?
Martin
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Message 2127115 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 2:05:50 UTC - in response to Message 2127112.  

... But many news sites around the world are now questioning who else other than Israel had ordinance powerful enough to cause the level of destruction caused to that hospital.

Surely some mistake to leave an ammunition dump in the storeroom there?...


All in the atrocious game of deadly politics...
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Message 2127116 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 3:24:14 UTC - in response to Message 2127113.  

Benji says wrote:
Further fact is that at that precise time, multiple rockets were being fired from nearby with those rockets climbing up over the hospital...

Or is it an unprofessional force that has not mapped out civilian areas so that they can't fire into those areas without an additional authorization code?
Or is it a force that doesn't care if it fires on civilians?
Or does the force not believe there are any civilians?

Doubt the round gone astray, they deny firing a round. Kind of like bringing down a civilian airliner, but in that case the truth couldn't be hidden so those responsible had to fess up.
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Message 2127122 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 6:45:04 UTC

The latest by The Telegraph suggests that the explosion at the hospital was caused by a failed missile launched by Islamic Jihad in Northern Gaza.

If you can get to it https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/18/gaza-hospital-explosion-missile-palestine/
The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) denied the claims and in turn pointed the finger at Islamic Jihad, a group allied with Hamas terrorists.

Daniel Hagari, an Israeli military spokesman, said the country’s drone footage showed that the rocket used in the attack “doesn’t fit any of the ammunition of the [Israeli] airforce”.

Several independent analysts reviewed footage of the explosion and said their investigations supported the IDF’s denial.

Some said the massive blast appeared to have been caused by a failed projectile from a large barrage of rockets launched from northern Gaza.
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Message 2127125 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 9:25:56 UTC

Further evidence to say that it was not a bomb dropped at the Hospital.


There is no crater
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Message 2127127 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 11:01:10 UTC - in response to Message 2127116.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 11:02:07 UTC

... Kind of like bringing down a civilian airliner, but in that case the truth couldn't be hidden so those responsible had to fess up.

Strangely enough...

Iran sent two aircraft carrying weapons and ammunition for use against Israel... That is... Passenger airliners carrying everyday civilian passengers above a hold full of bullets, rockets, and bombs...

How do you stop those with their human shield?...

Israel have the weapons to simply shoot down the airplanes. But what of the people?...

The outcome was that Israel blew up a hole in the runways at the Damascus and Aleppo airports. The bombs carrying passenger aircraft turned back to Iran.


How long has that delayed the next Iranian sponsored attack?

All in the deadly games of deadly politics...
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Message 2127132 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 12:59:37 UTC - in response to Message 2127125.  

There is no crater
Why must there be one? What set of assumptions is required for there to be a crater? Or where is the crater in Hiroshima?
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Message 2127134 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 13:46:59 UTC - in response to Message 2127132.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 14:19:58 UTC

There is no crater
Why must there be one? What set of assumptions is required for there to be a crater? Or where is the crater in Hiroshima?

Israeli air strike image dated 11th Oct


Hiroshima bomb was air burst at about 2000ft. One of the reasons there was so little fallout.
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Message 2127141 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 16:07:44 UTC - in response to Message 2127125.  

I see the photo was first published in Israel Times. Interesting. There are other photos that look like they are sun angle changes to this same area all first published by Israeli news sites. Then there is the one with what appears to be the photoshop checkerboard that is missing in the same photo published by another source. Something else bothers me about them though. The manicured look of garden areas in a decade long war zone. Never mind the Mexican fan palms that somehow didn't catch fire. Living in Southern California, I have some first hand knowledge of their flammability. We call them roman candles for a reason. Now, the photos published by other news media, night time, show multiple fires. Where is the smoke in the Jewish pictures? Water isn't available in Gaza. How were the fires put out? Fire extinguishers leave big piles of white powder. Heck flowing water leaves traces on the ground even after it has evaporated. Something just seems odd about the picture. It may be legitimate.

As to the photo of a crater, what was the warhead? what was the fuse? what was the detonation point? Or, you are aware there are different types of bombs and they are designed to make different blast effects. You might read about the firebombing raids of WWII and the bomb loads and the mixture of high explosive and incendiary.
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Message 2127142 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 16:34:08 UTC - in response to Message 2127141.  

The BBC are making a valiant effort to make sense of events like this through their new-ish 'BBC Verify' team.

Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al Ahli hospital blast

They're honest enough to say that they haven't got answers to all the questions yet, but they have promised to keep that page updated as new conclusions are reached.
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Message 2127143 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 17:05:19 UTC - in response to Message 2127142.  

They're honest enough to say that they haven't got answers to all the questions yet, but they have promised to keep that page updated as new conclusions are reached.


Initially it's leaning towards this being a Palestinian-caused blast, so I am hoping to be very happy to have been proven wrong.
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Message 2127144 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 17:23:03 UTC - in response to Message 2127142.  
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 17:24:47 UTC

The BBC are making a valiant effort to make sense of events like this through their new-ish 'BBC Verify' team.

Gaza hospital: What video, pictures and other evidence tell us about Al Ahli hospital blast

They're honest enough to say that they haven't got answers to all the questions yet, but they have promised to keep that page updated as new conclusions are reached.

For all the criticism of the BBC recently, it would appear as though they are trying to establish the truth after their reporter made this broadcast earlier. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7T9ZnT-gC4
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Message 2127150 - Posted: 18 Oct 2023, 19:17:16 UTC
Last modified: 18 Oct 2023, 19:18:54 UTC

So here more emerging or coming to me that this was misfiring by a rocket, and next hitting Palestinians rather than Israelis.

Here Islamic Jihad becomes suspected, and next the question whether the hospital was hit deliberate for only causing more incitement.

The Palestinians could end up becoming the loser in the conflict, not only because Israel is stronger, but also that there are more parts to the conflict.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

Here the Wikipedia could make it self-governing territory next to Egypt and Israel, and next suffice with that for at least one part you could be holding.

I still tilt slightly in the direction of the Israelis for their right to defence, and also they are a victim of Holocaust.

The purpose of the Arabs is making it a single state for everything, and next by means of conquering for not any occupying.

One of their methods for that of using becomes here terrorism when seeking to hit or hurt the other part of the conflict.

But also that incitement could also be Chaos, and next even more to it when only the conflict ensuing.

A conflict between nations could be even worse than a regional conflict when they could be dragged into the conflict, and here for only choosing side.

I think it should be better of the Palestinians to choose to live in peace with Israel for only the limited space it could be when still other countries around.

Therefore trying to resolve by means of solving or negotiations should still be the better option.

The other becomes only even more suffering or despair, for also the other word I noticed.
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Message boards : Politics : When will the West stop pandering the Israeli government?


 
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