The "Other" Electric Vehicles Thread
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Scrooge McDuck  Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 2081 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54 
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The first petrol cars in the early 20th century were clearly unsuitable for the Canadian winters. At some point they became 'suitable'. |
 ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 
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EVs in the frost and ice of Norway work fine. So much so that EVs outsell the old fossils there... Aside: I've driven my EV through snow and ice this year, already, and on ungritted roads. All was good. The smooth traction control is fantastic. The aircon/heating worked fine. The conditions and extra time cost an additional 5% of battery. All good! Be Excellent!! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 2081 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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EVs in the frost and ice of Norway work fine.Hmmm, the Norwegian climate is wet, quite cool but in particular 'oceanic'. Just on the (almost uninhabited) central southern mountain plateau (I think it's called 'Hardangervidda') it gets truly cold in winters. It would be interesting to know how (EV) things are East of the Skandes mountain range which blocks relatively warm Atlantic air, that is in Central and Northern Sweden or Finland where it's often and for long weeks really cold. Electricity is cheap* in Norway as well as in Sweden; I don't know about Finland. Privately owned homes rather than rental apartments are typical outside densely built-up city centers in Norway as well as in Sweden. This enables cheap charging at home overnight. No need to dig cable trenches for charging infrastructure first. Then, there's plenty of flexible hydro generation feeding the grid... Nuclear in SE/FI as well... Do I try to question why there are so few EVs sold in Germany? Maybe. * I'm no longer sure about Southern Norway with its multiple gigawatts of transit capacity from at least five HVDC links to the UK, NL, DE, and DK, which often multiplies prices at power exchanges on par to our insane continental scarcity prices. [EDIT to add:]Ahh, of course you have to pay hefty import tariffs for new as well as used foreign made cars in Norway. The only local car manufacturer produces... EVs. There aren't motorways in the sparsely populated Norway which spreads 1,750 kilometers (1,080 miles) to the North along deeply incised fjords, which makes long distances even longer. The few railways are really comfy but slow (students and pensioners). So, SAS and Norwegian Airlines domestic flights fulfill the function of long distance motorways and high speed railways on the continent. EVs are fantastic for the typical usage of cars in Norway. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Note: Nearly All New Cars Sold in Norway Were Electric in 2024 wrote: ... Elsewhere: All just a game of politics and greedy lobbying holding back the tide of positive progress? All on our only one planet... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier     Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31615 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 
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Elsewhere: All just a game of politics and greedy lobbying holding back the tide of positive progress?"Progress" = greenwashing and the acceleration of AGW Mother nature will eventually impose the only known solution, reduce the population of humans. |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 2081 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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Some economists explain the impact of replacing ICE with BEV cars, thus reducing oil consumption, for global CO2 exhaust as non-existent or neglible. Their argument is: oil and petrol are traded globally on markets. Reducing consumption reduces prices, thus increases demand elsewhere (e.g. in developing countries). Even the frequent economic recessions (the normal economic cycles in market economies) of the past did not lead to a decreasing global production in oil exporting countries, with one exception: The global COVID pandemic did reduce global oil production for few years (global demand reduction). A mandatory global trade of co2 exhaust certificates with yearly shrinking numbers could reduce CO2. But how to convince China, the US, India, … or Nigeria, Indonesia??? Omitting or reducing the use of low-quality (high CO2) energy sources which aren‘t traded on global markets (e.g. lignite coal, peat) reduces CO2 exhausts. Regional bans for exploration (e.g. UKs policy on North Sea oil and gas) increases market prices and thus leads to exploration and subsequent production elsewhere. To sum up: just national or regional demand reduction will not change course on global CO2 exhaust which we observe now. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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... We really need a useable fusion power breakthrough sooner so as to have economics kill off the pollution... So far, the politics has failed us... All on our only one planet... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Australia: 2025 tipped to be bumper year for EVs as emission laws change and new models arrive wrote: ... Automotive industry experts say the race will be triggered by laws that set a pollution cap on new vehicles in Australia for the first time, catching up to regulations in other countries... ... Just add wind and solar power! (Shame about the old coal lobby over there...) All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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Scrooge McDuck Send message Joined: 26 Nov 99 Posts: 2081 Credit: 1,674,173 RAC: 54
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... We really need a useable fusion power breakthrough sooner so as to have economics kill off the pollution...I'm sure we will have fusion power in the future. I wasn't convinced, like 10 or 15 years ago. But... We can't state how many decades away this 'future' still is. Even then it will require further decades to really change things. Then, since decades we know reliable, CO2 free fission power. Ignoring the pros and cons... it's even impossible to build sufficiently many of them to significantly reduce CO2 exhausts. So a 'Plan B' is urgently required, such that as much oil and gas as possible is left deep underground until 'Mr. Fusion' is available to power cars. |
Sirius B   Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24990 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Oh dear. "Pay per mile" is too easily abused... Our roads network already doesn't get funded by the full amount taken in the various road taxes and vehicle taxes. Also, the taxes are disproportionately against car drivers whereas in effect, heavy haulage and other on-the-road commercial road use is proportionately subsidized... We'll be pushed back to toll roads next! One to watch closely and preempt quickly if there is not an immediate backlash already!! Far more effective is to chase the gruesome profits of industry that "externalize" their costs at our expense... All in the UK! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31615 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32
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Don't know how your taxes are set up and what part of each tax is to pay for what part of the government. One thing to keep in mind is how a tax of a gallon of fuel happens. A car today gets 35+ miles from that gallon. A HGV may get 7. The ratio of wear is ??? Here a vehicle also pays a yearly tax. Cars don't pay a heavy tax, but HGV do and that tax is based on GVW. Again that ratio is what for the wear difference. However the fly is the EV that pays no per gallon tax. It gets a free pass. |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19963 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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 https://www.profitgreenly.com/p/road-damage-fees-and-profit edit] It's all to do with the "Fourth Power Law" |
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31615 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32
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Ah, the fourth power law article in Wiki says it dates from 1950's USA but the link is to a German site. Something else as most HGV today use dual tires not the single tires common in the 50's does this law even apply or does it need another divisor factor. I'm thinking it should be a factored based on total tire contact surface area and not a simple axle count. |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19963 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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Ah, the fourth power law article in Wiki says it dates from 1950's USA but the link is to a German site. Something else as most HGV today use dual tires not the single tires common in the 50's does this law even apply or does it need another divisor factor. I'm thinking it should be a factored based on total tire contact surface area and not a simple axle count. To do the calculations correctly, then, it must be calculated per axle, and include the number of tyres, with their contact size. |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21974 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Some petrol heads hilarity from some time ago: How Far Can You Get On an Electric Car Battery? | Top Gear Classic ... And how we have moved on since those long old days of old! Enjoy!! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31615 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32
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Ah, the fourth power law article in Wiki says it dates from 1950's USA but the link is to a German site. Something else as most HGV today use dual tires not the single tires common in the 50's does this law even apply or does it need another divisor factor. I'm thinking it should be a factored based on total tire contact surface area and not a simple axle count. This says the original study was bad science https://cleantechnica.com/2025/12/06/how-outdated-engineering-models-distort-todays-ev-road-charges-debate/ |
Wiggo  Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 38651 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 
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I wonder what the size of the trucks would look like that go past here. The standard semi-trailer travelling past here has 22 wheels (18 wheelers are a very rare breed), but they're being replaced by 26 wheelers (quad axle trailer sets replacing tri sets), while most B Doubles have 34 wheels (there's almost as many of them as there are standand semis), but there are now 42 wheel jobs appearing (again with quad axle replacing tri setups), and then there's the small single dog road trains that have started to appear also with 42 wheels (1 regular being a milk tanker and the other being a molasses tanker). A solid axle here is rated at a 15 tonne load capacity. There have also been 12 wheel twin steer tractors starting to make an appearance adding another 8 tonne of load capacity there.This says the original study was bad science https://cleantechnica.com/2025/12/06/how-outdated-engineering-models-distort-todays-ev-road-charges-debate/Ah, the fourth power law article in Wiki says it dates from 1950's USA but the link is to a German site. Something else as most HGV today use dual tires not the single tires common in the 50's does this law even apply or does it need another divisor factor. I'm thinking it should be a factored based on total tire contact surface area and not a simple axle count.To do the calculations correctly, then, it must be calculated per axle, and include the number of tyres, with their contact size. You really have to wonder where they'll stop and it's no wonder that the highway here is under constant repair. |
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