Aliens may have already VISITED Earth

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Message 2090160 - Posted: 13 Dec 2021, 18:41:48 UTC

Let us first consider what "newspaper" this is coming from & the U.S. based souces before giving true validation.
SPACE INVADERS Aliens may have already VISITED Earth, bombshell Nasa report reveals as Pentagon ramps up hunt for UFOs
ALIENS may have already visited Earth, according to a jaw-dropping report by Nasa, which says the organisation is “not closed” to the possibility extraterrestrial life exists.

While the report said it had not yet found “any credible evidence” it said Nasa’s science missions were “working together with a goal to find unmistakable signs of life beyond Earth.”

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Message 2090203 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 1:17:39 UTC

Very likely 'they' have...

... by the process of panspermia.

'Intelligence' evolved later?...


Keep searchin',
Martin
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Message 2090246 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 13:23:44 UTC - in response to Message 2090160.  

What, are we all ? Nuts ?

Some may be seeking indisputable evidence of a supreme being no doubt.

All of this nonsense doesn't mean that any of this exists except in the schemes of those who profit from sensationalism and the ignorant masses.

Yes I think that we should continue looking but NASA can't possibly believe that the current UFO bruhaha indicates aliens and a "threat " to our security.
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Message 2090255 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 16:11:37 UTC

I suppose that we can expect an accent on the sensational by newspapers such as the Sun. Never-the-less, NASA's official position appears to be that they will not rule out any possible explanation for UFOs, including extraterrestrial visitation, before sufficient scientific investigation is completed. This is similar to the new position of the U.S. military, in light of their recent preliminary study of the UFO phenomenon.

That does not amount, in either case, to their saying that UFOs are definite evidence of such visitation. Their attitudes strike me, under the given circumstances, as a acceptable position of caution, and open-mindedness.

Incidentally, it occurs to me that this discussion could benefit from the omission of such expressions as 'nuts', 'nonsense', 'ignorant masses', and the like. [/i]
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Message 2090257 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 16:34:15 UTC - in response to Message 2090255.  

Incidentally, it occurs to me that this discussion could benefit from the omission of such expressions as 'nuts', 'nonsense', 'ignorant masses', and the like. [/i]


And, Bro, what words do you deem to be politically correct for expressing my viewpoint ?
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Message 2090262 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 18:21:01 UTC
Last modified: 14 Dec 2021, 18:30:27 UTC

This is not about 'political correctness'. It is about showing respect to others; those whose opinions about, or interpretations of, an inevitably incomplete set of facts happens to differ from one's own. Persons of integrity and understanding may, at times, honestly disagree with one another.
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Message 2090265 - Posted: 14 Dec 2021, 20:03:09 UTC

Keep it cool guys, I don't want to have a mod having to wade in and put a few posts in the waste bin or someone (or more) in the cooler for a few hours.
Bob Smith
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Message 2092208 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 8:46:25 UTC

At the present stage of our knowlege it cannot be proved whether UFO'a are evidence of alien life or not. All we do know for sure is that UFO's exist because reports upon them have neen made by reputable members of the public, armed forces, airline pilots etc. and backed up by radar plots. What perplexes us is that these things perform in a way that no known technology on earth could replicate, by performing 90 degree turns and zooming off at many thousands of MPH. The G forces demonstrated would probably kill any lifeform (as we imagine them) and could even destroy the UFO itself.

We simply don't know whether they are natural phenomena, or some sort of remote controlled machine. Most governments have files tucked away marked "not known at this time". So we know that these things exist, and if not natural, are thought unlikely to come from earth, but not how or why. Some speculation even goes as far as saying that it is doubtful that they come from a nearby star, so must be based on a remote moon, or orbiting mothership some where in the solar system (assuming no hollow earth theory).

No proof one way or the other. Anybody's thoughts are as valid as anyone elses. My common sense dismisses these reports of anal probing. I mean how likely is it that beings that have conquered space travel would use such crude methods. We must make our own minds up, but also being tolerant of others views with which we may disagree.
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Message 2092216 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 14:56:57 UTC - in response to Message 2090262.  

So true--good scold !
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Message 2092217 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 14:59:24 UTC - in response to Message 2092208.  
Last modified: 15 Jan 2022, 15:01:50 UTC

but also being tolerant of others views with which we may disagree.




Here is one for all of us philosophers here on the Forum.

Do you tolerate fools or do you try to reason with them and point out the consequences and conditions for or of their beliefs, if true or enacted.
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Message 2092219 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 15:16:28 UTC - in response to Message 2092208.  

Thank you Phoenix; Proof of a given proposition does not exist in science, except mathematics. Some things are simply found to be more probable than others. Statements purporting a higher level of certainty than this are not, strictly speaking, scientific.

A number of government scientific studies, from various nations, have found that the extraterrestrial hypothesis for certain, persistently unidentifiable flying objects is the most probable. Even the recent, and much discussed study by the U.S. military has declined to rule out the possibility that some UFOs, or as they have taken to calling them-- UAPs, or Unidentified Aerial Phenomena are evidence of the technology of extraterrestrial intelligences.

This seems a reasonable stance when evidence is lacking for any common, or mundane explanation for these objects. Even the old Condon Committee Report, which had a skeptical conclusion appended to it, which was not supported by the evidence it collected, found something interesting about that evidence. Even those reports with evidence good enough that a mundane explanation should have been possible, often remained persistently unidentifiable.
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Message 2092221 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 17:03:24 UTC - in response to Message 2092219.  

Some things are simply found to be more probable than others

I would agree that is a fair statement to make.

But we are all posting here on a SETI message board, so presumably we wouldn't have joined SETI in the first place if we didn't think that there was a reasonable possiblilty that it was a worthwhile search. So it's not surprising that we tend to err on the positive side rather than the negative one.

But I want to return to the actual title of this thread, which purports to accept that aliens do exist and poses the hypothesis that not only may there be a visitation in future, but moreover there may have already been one in the past. I believe that to be true, and I'll give you my reasons why.

Many religions and sects chronicle their gods and deities as coming from the sky, usually with lots of noise and clouds of smoke. Whilst on earth they carried out miracles, then went back to the skies promising to return. but none ever have. That sounds descriptive to me of a shuttle landing or similar. I think that it happened about 11-12,000 BC, others have also mentioned that date. and was an exploration party that likely stayed for about a year to survey the planet, That would account for similar tales from across the world.

How else would ancient man have seen them as anythng other than gods? They would likely have used Helicopter equivalents to get around which explains medieval paintings depicting Archangels, Angels, Cherubims, etc in human form with wings on their backs. Magic rods that cut stone could be thermal lances. Persian magic carpets could be Maglevs. The possibilities for speculation could be endless.

But there is physical evidence here and now that needs explaining. Take the Plain of Nazca in Peru where the caricatures can only be seen properly from the air. Take the pyramids in Egypt ehere the 3 big ones are the same as Orions belt. Were they meant as aerial markers to show the location of their followers? Take the Baalbek Terrace in Lebanon with stones weighing an estimated 750 tons and a 1200 ton stone in a nearby quarry.. We couldn't build that even today.

Of course I can't prove a word of it, and Von Danikens series of books are deliberately dramatised with little backup fact. But there are too many unanswered questions that leaves it all open to question and speculation. I'll repost the first line from the beginning.

Some things are simply found to be more probable than others
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Message 2092232 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 20:51:22 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jan 2022, 20:57:36 UTC

The giant Baalbek stones seem the most difficult to explain, of the examples cited. We tend to underestimate the resources and abilities of ancient humans, I think. You may find the article, linked below, to be of interest, in this connection.

https://gilgamesh42.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/moving-the-stones-of-baalbek-the-wonders-of-roman-engineering/
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Message 2092233 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 21:29:47 UTC

The problem is not whether intelligent life exists elsewhere, as with the enormous number of galaxies, stars, and planets would make the probability of intelligent life only existing on earth at this particular time, quite rare, however, there is a real physics problem. Distance, distance, distance. I can't imagine any intelligent civilization sending an "manned" ship to explore an uncertain target. As far as every experiment, or mathematical prediction goes, light speed is a barrier. There are 63 G type stars within 100 light years of earth. True, life could exist near other stars, but if we understand that we have been giving off radio waves for a little over 100 years, then if an intelligent civilization 50 light years away received the signals 50 years ago, and jumped in their space ships and headed directly to us, then they would just be reaching here. This is just not logical. There is still the problem of acceleration, living in space for many years, perhaps thousands, deceleration, and possibly spending enough fuel for orbit, and then a return trip. Especially for an unconfirmed target. It just doesn't make sense. Is there life, perhaps intelligent in multiple locations throughput the universe? The odds say yes, but distance says that there is virtually no probability that we have been visited.
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Message 2092243 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 22:42:57 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jan 2022, 22:45:28 UTC

Thank you, SciManStev;
The possibility of exceeding the speed of light globally, while preserving the relativistic light speed barrier in local space has given rise to a good deal of scientific discussion. It's conjectured that this could be accomplished by the warping of space.

Our current inability to accomplish this feat is acknowledged. This should not be taken as the last possible word on the matter, though, nor as a limitation that must apply to more technically advanced species in interstellar space. Such technical feats as interplanetary space travel and atomic energy were also once held to be impossible, by expert opinion of the day.

The prohibitively large expenditure of energy we current believe to be required to warp space usefully has already been markedly reduced by reworking the originally proposed parameters. Given sufficient time, this may be reduced further, to the point that it becomes a practical means of interstellar travel.
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Message 2092244 - Posted: 15 Jan 2022, 22:58:38 UTC - in response to Message 2092239.  

they cannot recieve signals from us, signals dont go that far away unless it is purposely directed to them with ton of extra power!
all scientifics will tell you that.


Thank you Michel 448a;
These limits on how far away a radio signal of ours can be detected in space are typically based on receivers no better than our own. I think it safe to suspect that radio receivers, particularly the energy-collecting ability of receiver system can be improved indefinitely. An elder, more technically advanced civilization in space would have had ample time for such improvements.

Dr. Frank Drake wrote years ago about the possibility of using a star as a giant lens to gather and focus a radio signal's energy. It would then become possible to hear even low-power radio transmissions, from throughout out galaxy.
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Message 2092273 - Posted: 16 Jan 2022, 8:22:44 UTC

The age of the observable universe is 13.8 billion years old, Homo Sapiens have been around for 300,000 years. If there are aliens out there they have had a lot more time to evolve than we have. Therefore it is more likely that they will find us before we find them. But there are many scientists and politicians that disagreee with advertising our presenece in case it alerts klingon types, the Borg, or Daleks.

Anyway to travel between the stars effectively means going faster than light or warp speed. Mr Einstein however says that cannot happen as it would break the laws of physics upon which the universe is based.

Returning back to the title of this thread, at present we have no proof that any aliens exist or have existed, and ergo no proof that if they do, they have already been here. Just a collection of intriguing phenomens, which we cannot explain.
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Message 2092284 - Posted: 16 Jan 2022, 15:21:14 UTC - in response to Message 2092219.  

Are they "solid objects" or optical illusions ?. Do they appear on radar ? If so are they reflection from clouds. As I have said if they pose a threat to our security then lets try to shoot one down . That should tell us a lot more than speculation.
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Message 2092308 - Posted: 16 Jan 2022, 23:11:09 UTC - in response to Message 2092273.  

... there are many scientists and politicians that disagreee with advertising our presenece in case it alerts Klingon types, the Borg, or Daleks...

Throughout our own human history, we have many examples of how 'advanced' civilisations have explored and discovered lesser advanced civilisations...

For those lesser advanced civilisations, their getting discovered, almost universally, ended badly for them...


Keep searchin'?!
Martin
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Message 2092318 - Posted: 17 Jan 2022, 1:14:26 UTC
Last modified: 17 Jan 2022, 1:16:27 UTC

The average age of Sun-like stars is our galaxy is about one billon years older than our own Sun. There are a great many stars of this sort. There has been more than ample time for elder civilizations to expand and fill the galaxy, even at travel speeds well below that of light. We see, even here on Earth, that life tends to expand into every place it can.

One may assume that our galaxy is fully tenanted. Further, that our being largely left alone is a matter of design, not accident, and not due to a practical inability to interfere with us, if there were a desire to do so.

Our Earth might well be classed as a preserve of sorts. The plan could be to let us be, until we begin to venture out, ourselves, into the galaxy. Our potential effect on the rest of the galaxy, and its civilizations would have to be addressed. We would need to be taught to be good galactic citizens. It is presumably in this way that the galaxy is kept an orderly place. It is a reasonable supposition that it is because of this same practice that we have remained largely unbothered through the eons.
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