Coronavirus, Ebola and Infectious diseases, Food & Drugs, Studies, Recalls #8

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Message 2082538 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 19:14:11 UTC - in response to Message 2082534.  

... flu vaccine has only had a 2% effective rate?...

What's your link for that claim?
Already provided on these threads. Google is your friend.

Bad answer.
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Message 2082539 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:04:47 UTC - in response to Message 2082534.  

... flu vaccine...

What's your link for that claim?
Already provided on these threads. Google is your friend.

Nope. Not there.


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Message 2082540 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:05:17 UTC - in response to Message 2082538.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 20:16:30 UTC

Bad answer.
Why? Not my problem when others use "claim" in a reply.
Your own CDC shows an effective % of 10 for 2004.
Easily found.
Too many exist in the here & now.
Yesterday has gone.
Tomorrow never comes.
Where Covid is concerned, regardless of who comments on it, be it "ignorant" population, scientists or politicians, they are all "claims" as no clear & definitive data is yet available.
The flu vaccine has been well documented.
Washington Post 3rd Sept 2020.
Recognizing both the similarities and differences to past pandemics can provide a “meaningful mirror” for the present, Greene added. The million-dollar question is: What can the 1918 influenza outbreak tell us about how our current pandemic may end?
“The sad answer is not very much,” Markel said. “The operative word in this particular pandemic is ‘novel’ coronavirus. We’re learning as we go along, but we don’t really know that much.”
Source
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Message 2082542 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:08:33 UTC - in response to Message 2082535.  

...
All blown out of all proportion & done by authorities.
Suggest you look back on these threads for when the blood clot incidents hit the news. Wasn't it the EU that kicked up the biggest regarding the AZ vaccine.
Numbers not needed as the post highlighted "bungling authorities".

Numbers and proportions give all of the story. In this case, radically.

The EU response was in part political in that there was the embarrassment that the UK sponsored Astra-Zenica vaccine was ahead of the race at the time.

Meanwhile, we have hundreds of millions of Astra-Zenica vaccine jabs given that have undoubtedly saved many lives.


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Message 2082543 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:12:29 UTC - in response to Message 2082536.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 20:12:54 UTC

...
Hopefully the COVID pandemic will be turned around to be a life saving wake-up clarion call!

Maybe, but it won't be certain until much more data available.

We have more than enough data and we have still ongoing the most extensive and most closely scrutinized world-wide experiment ever known in written history.

The clarion call is needed to wake up the politicians and their politics...


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Message 2082544 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:17:24 UTC - in response to Message 2082540.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 20:18:04 UTC

... [flu vaccine] CDC shows an [efficacy of 10%] for 2004 ...

That is some desperate cherry picking of the numbers from a long time ago...

So, what does the wider story say?

We are still very much using and relying upon vaccines... Why might that be?...


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Message 2082545 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:18:05 UTC - in response to Message 2082543.  

Well, we're on the same page with that one.
However, I think we'll both see pigs flying 1st.
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Message 2082546 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:20:54 UTC - in response to Message 2082540.  

Your own CDC shows an effective % of 10 for 2004.

You said 2%, not 10% a difference of 400%. Also the year 2004 was cherry picked. Many have rates of over 50%
So (50-2)/2 = 2400%. Large enough to call BS.
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Message 2082547 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:21:37 UTC - in response to Message 2082545.  

... see pigs flying...

With or without seat belts?

And rubber stamped by Boeing??


Meanwhile, back here on Planet Earth: The numbers strongly show that vaccines are the way to go, ASAP.


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Message 2082550 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:28:28 UTC - in response to Message 2082544.  

Some just don't get it.
If 2004 is a "long time" ago, then I take it that 1918-20 was back in ancient times?
Should you look at the CDC table which covers 2004-2019 as well as the history of the flu, one will find that the % rates cannot really be relied on as new vaccines are provided due to new strains.
So we have Covid vaccines & getting doubled jabbed.
Now it is being suggested that booster jabs are given. Hmm...
...new variants that current vaccines cannot be that effective against?
Covid is not only a warning for politicians to get their act together but one for the "penny pinchers" as well.
Compared to funding research, which is the more costly to date?
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Message 2082552 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:32:40 UTC - in response to Message 2082546.  

Your own CDC shows an effective % of 10 for 2004.

You said 2%, not 10% a difference of 400%. Also the year 2004 was cherry picked. Many have rates of over 50%
So (50-2)/2 = 2400%. Large enough to call BS.
Too many exist in the here & now.
Yesterday has gone.
Tomorrow never comes.
Answers that nicely.
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Message 2082555 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:44:02 UTC - in response to Message 2082550.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 20:45:26 UTC

... If 2004 is a "long time" ago...

As mentioned, that is a prime example of cherry picking the data and the dates for when instead, ALL of the data should be considered in context.

The cherry picking game is typically what deniers do. Just two famous examples are for the Global Warming deniers for gaming which singular two years to compare to prove any random point they wish, and for the Shuttle Launch managers who selectively only looked at the positive flight data to ignore the rest to then lead to two deadly costly total fails.

So... For brief context:

"Flu" is a whole bunch of related viruses and the vaccines against the particular viruses are known effective. There is also a little gaming ongoing for vaccinating for which of the multitude of viruses. With experience, that anticipatory selection is getting better. Lives are saved each year. Better still, a lot of misery and hospital admissions are avoided each year directly due to the vaccinations.


So we have Covid vaccines & getting doubled jabbed.
Now it is being suggested that booster jabs are given. Hmm...
...new variants that current vaccines cannot be that effective against?

We have multiple vaccines for which some are effective against all of the variants, some are most effective against one target variant and have lower effectiveness but still usefully so against other variants. We have completed studies that directly measure the immune response that show that for some vaccines, a booster jab or even a booster jab with a second vaccine is useful.

Do you like one sugar or two with your beverage?! (One is enough for those with enough sweetness receptors, two may be need for those with a less effective sense of sweetness.)

All jolly good sense!


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2082556 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 20:46:51 UTC
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 20:54:46 UTC

Okay, going to put this one to bed.
My mistake was in not bookmarking the site at the time, but I can assure all that, that the 2% effective rate was published.
Since I was asked for the link to that "claim", I've been searching & so far, no luck. However:
The current conventional flu vaccine and its potential to protect people and save lives is constantly being developed, and work is far from complete. The effectiveness of the vaccine varies enormously each year, from just 3% up to 70%.
So before calling B/S or asking to "confirm" such claims", I suggest one should research for themselves.
After all, we mustn't fall into the misinformation trap now must we?
Source
Edit.
Also, pretty sure that the site that quoted 2% was in fact a known medical site.
Have come across several "Claim" sites, but they were instantly dismissed as no verified medical sources could be found.
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Message 2082558 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 21:21:00 UTC - in response to Message 2082556.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 21:22:39 UTC

... After all, we mustn't fall into the misinformation trap now must we?
Source
...

Those details could be offered a little more openly...

So, to save others wasting their time chasing the clicks...


That source is: "FluCamp Clinical Trials Recruitment"

They mention in their recruitment 'blog':
"The effectiveness of the vaccine varies enormously each year, from just 3% up to 70%."

There is no reference to those numbers...


In comparison, for some real world data, we have much more reliable sources with:

CDC - Vaccine Effectiveness: How Well Do the Flu Vaccines Work? Questions & Answers
wrote:
... recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine. In general, current flu vaccines tend to work better against influenza B and influenza A(H1N1) viruses and offer lower protection against influenza A(H3N2) viruses...


CDC Seasonal Flu Vaccine Effectiveness Studies
wrote:
CDC conducts studies to measure the benefits of seasonal flu vaccination each flu season to help determine how well flu vaccines are working. These vaccine effectiveness (VE) studies regularly assess and confirm the value of flu vaccination as a public health intervention. Study results of vaccine effectiveness can vary based on study design, outcome(s) measured, population studied and the season in which the flu vaccine was studied... [10% effectiveness - 56% effectiveness in this wide context]


UK Gov - Flu vaccine effectiveness in 2017 to 2018 season
wrote:
The data show that overall, flu vaccine was 15% effective in all age groups. However, effectiveness varied considerably. By age-group...

... There were higher levels of protection against flu B and H1N1pdm09, especially in children (60.8% effective against flu B and 90.3% against H1N1pdm09 in children)...

... recommending that the quadrivalent vaccine, which protects against 4 strains of flu rather than 3 and is currently used for all children under 18 years of age, is made available to all adults in at-risk groups aged between 16 to 64 years... Vaccines are the best defence we have against flu and not only protect people who have received the vaccine but also those around them...



There is also this more readable article:

Daily EXPRESS - How effective is flu vaccine?
wrote:
FLU has added to the potential dangers of COVID-19 this autumn, as health officials find themselves scrambling to prevent a battle for hospital beds. How effective is the flu vaccine?...




There is quite a variation in context for that lot.

The short story is that the flu vaccines are very effective against the strains of flu that are targeted. However, does that then mean that other strains of flu become more prominent?...

Is there also a cost compromise for how many strains are protected against?...


Those numbers still add up to usefully reduced hospital admissions and reduced deaths.

All for the sake of a tiny pin prick of a jab...


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2082559 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 21:27:32 UTC - in response to Message 2082556.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 21:28:09 UTC

... My mistake was in not bookmarking the site at the time, but I can assure all that, that the 2% effective rate was published...

Perhaps... Considering the number... Rather than 'effective' was that a quote for 'risk'?... Might that be the figure for the risk of getting the flu for an example year for a particular group?...


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Message 2082560 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 21:28:01 UTC

The point being, that each year's flu vaccine is different. 'Flu' is a mixture of viral types, evolving constantly around the world, but flourishing best in each global segment's winter season.

It takes time to prepare and certify each year's vaccine. For us in the Northern hemisphere, scientists look to the variants which were commonest in the preceding season's Australian flu outbreak - and base the northern hemisphere's next flu jab on their best guess of which variant will transfer best to their next host population.

Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they get it wrong - in common with most human guesses.

Most of the variability you cite comes from the accuracy, or otherwise, of that prediction. A bad year doesn't undermine the credibility of the vaccination principle: it simply shows that the human race are lousy guessers.

I think we knew that.
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Message 2082563 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 21:40:13 UTC

There it is. Well done Richard.
How many Covid variants already in the wild that the "current" vaccines are not so effective against?
I'm with Mr Kevvy on this one, if we can eradicate it like we did against smallpox...
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Message 2082564 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 21:56:19 UTC - in response to Message 2082563.  
Last modified: 17 Aug 2021, 21:58:19 UTC

... How many Covid variants already in the wild that the "current" vaccines are not so effective against?

The vastly dominant strain for COVID in the UK is the "Delta" variant.

All the vaccines in use in the UK are effective against that.


... if we can eradicate it like we did against smallpox...

For the Coronaviruses, for which we have the Coronavirus SARS-2 causing the present COVID pandemic, we may well 'soon' have a knockout vaccine/cure...


We already have the "RNA" type of vaccines that target immunity very specifically towards the critical spike protein upon which the Coronavirus relies. Those vaccines work well across all the variants.

Current very rapid research has uncovered other critical unique features of the Coronavirus that remain common across all variants... This is where next, we will be more victim to the Pharmaceutical business profits rather than the virus itself!


Stay safe folks!
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Message 2082566 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 22:13:57 UTC

Sydney covidiot jailed for 2 months.

A 31-year-old man has been jailed for breaching public health orders and travelling from Sydney to Armidale in NSW's north.

Police say the former personal trainer left his Cabramatta home on Sunday, before using public transport to travel via Newcastle to the New England region.

He was arrested at Armidale Railway Station and has been sentenced to two months prison after a hearing in the Armidale Local Court yesterday.

New England Police Chief Inspector David Cooper said that "people who blatantly breach our stay-at-home orders will be dealt with strongly".
I can't produce a link for this as it's buried in a constantly updating link, but this is what was not mentioned.

This covidiot took a train into Sydney from Cabramatta last week (he broke the 5km limit right there) before transferring to another train up to Newcastle where he changed over to the New England train to Armidale then changed over to the Countrylink bus and continued on past my house up to Tenterfield where he found that he couldn't get over the border into Queensland so he stayed overnight there before catching the same bus back to Armidale the next morning (traveling back past my front door again) where he was arrested on leaving the bus. His total distance of travel added up to around 750km before his arrest. :-O
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Message 2082568 - Posted: 17 Aug 2021, 23:11:10 UTC - in response to Message 2082566.  

... His total distance of travel added up to around 750km before his arrest. :-O

That adds up to one very determined idiot...

The question then becomes: Why?!

(I'm sure he hasn't got the excuse of wishing to walk the Rabbit Proof Fence, twice over!)


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Martin
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Message boards : Politics : Coronavirus, Ebola and Infectious diseases, Food & Drugs, Studies, Recalls #8


 
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