Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

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Message 2133587 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 5:02:37 UTC

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/07/business/ntsb-probing-stuck-control-incident-on-boeing-737-max/index.html
National Transportation Safety board says the pilots of the Boeing 737 Max 8 “experienced ‘stuck’ rudder pedals during the landing rollout.”
United maintenance crews were able to “duplicate the reported rudder system malfunction” during a test flight three days later.
but cold temperature tests by the company that makes an autopilot servo that is connected to the 737 Max 8 rudder controls, Collins Aerospace, as part of the investigation revealed the servo’s “output crank arm would prevent the rudder pedals from moving.”
United said the faulty parts are not part of the typical configuration used on its aircraft. The plane was originally built for another airline but went to United instead.
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Message 2133599 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 8:58:59 UTC - in response to Message 2133587.  

United said the faulty parts are not part of the typical configuration used on its aircraft. The plane was originally built for another airline but went to United instead.
So, Boeing aircraft may have different configurations depending on the customer airline? Okay, that's usually: cabin interior, seats, galleys, number of emergency exits. There is even an option for a landing gear with four wheels for Airbus A320 sold to India.

But rudder configuration? For what reason? To save money? Is there a tropical and an arctic version of 737 Max?
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Message 2133604 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 11:26:53 UTC - in response to Message 2133587.  

Thanks for that.

All rather curious and concerning...

Another 'critical' single point of failure that fails to fail safely?...


... And there is a deadly history of a stuck rudder killing all passengers aboard the plane...


Yet another Boeing safety issue to follow...

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Message 2133610 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 14:54:47 UTC - in response to Message 2133604.  

Yet another Boeing safety issue to follow...
Collins Aerospace makes parts for Airbus so not a Boeing only issue. As Collins Aerospace is a subsidiary of RTX (formerly Raytheon) a lot of their parts are going to be on a lot of military flying things.

The question is, bad manufacturing batch or a design engineering flaw affecting hundreds of part numbers?
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Message 2133612 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 15:23:58 UTC - in response to Message 2133610.  

While the parts may be manufactured by Collins they were integrated into the finished aircraft by Boeing, who are responsible for the overall design and assembly so share a large chunk of the responsibility, and ultimately all the responsibility for the configuration of the equipment on the aircraft - even when the aircraft as completed goes to a different customer to that initially intended (assuming that this aircraft was delivered new to United not AnOther).
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Message 2133635 - Posted: 8 Mar 2024, 21:28:31 UTC
Last modified: 8 Mar 2024, 21:30:38 UTC

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Message 2133650 - Posted: 9 Mar 2024, 0:30:21 UTC - in response to Message 2133635.  

Loosing a wheel... Someone a ground mechanic probably forgot to put in some bolts and or nuts.
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Message 2133658 - Posted: 9 Mar 2024, 1:38:13 UTC - in response to Message 2133635.  

Somehow this will be Boeing's fault
https://apnews.com/article/united-airlines-rolled-off-houston-runway-grass-0416c57f1ba5a5a26312554a9fa644ea
Indeed. If these 737 MAX 8 can't handle a quick turn on a slippery taxiway, carried out by an experienced pilot who needs to make up for a bit of delay, then it may very well be Boeing's fault. The tires were too small and have too little tread. Just kidding...
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Message 2133691 - Posted: 9 Mar 2024, 23:52:47 UTC

Wow...!

Really???

"Undocumented"...!!!

Boeing paper trail goes cold over door plug blowout
wrote:
"With respect to documentation, if the door plug removal was undocumented there would be no documentation to share. We will continue to cooperate fully and transparently with the NTSB's investigation."

With quality control under ever-increasing scrutiny, the idea that the removal of the door plug might have gone undocumented is almost unthinkable. We spoke to an aviation industry insider who said that even the suggestion that the removal might have been undocumented was "bizarre."



Beyond "bizarre"?...

Fly safe???
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Message 2133714 - Posted: 10 Mar 2024, 18:53:03 UTC - in response to Message 2133691.  

Not really when there are two different procedures for working on the plug - one if it is "opened" and the other when it is removed. From what I can gather there is virtually no paperwork required when the door is opened, but some when the door is removed. Given that both require the securing bolts to be removed and replaced, with the door being "craned clear" (my words) if the door is removed there should only ever be ONE procedure for the opening/removing the securing bolts - a disaster waiting to happen.
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Message 2133750 - Posted: 11 Mar 2024, 20:11:48 UTC
Last modified: 11 Mar 2024, 20:12:46 UTC

Whatever next?


At least 50 injured after ‘technical problem’ on Latam flight from Sydney to Auckland
wrote:
... suffered injuries on March 11 after a “technical problem” caused a “strong movement”...

... One person is in a serious condition while the rest had suffered mild-to-moderate injuries...


Dozens Injured On LATAM Boeing 787 Flight In Bizarre Incident
wrote:
... What’s surprising is what reportedly caused this incident...

... Here’s the really strange part of this story. Everything about this sounds like what you’d expect in a situation where a flight encounters severe turbulence. However, that’s reportedly not what happened. An airline spokesperson has said that the sudden movement of the aircraft was caused by a “technical problem.”

Furthermore, a passenger reports speaking to one of the pilots onboard, who relayed to him that “my gauges just blanked out, I lost all of my ability to fly the plane.” Now, I’d be hesitant to trust one random passenger’s account of what the pilot said, but the airline has confirmed the incident happened due to a technical problem, rather than turbulence, so...


For some dark silliness: What is that "What If" joke about a certain computer software company making airplanes?


This latest 'technical' 'issue' is 'strange' and certainly concerning...

One to watch for the accident report!


Whatever next?

Fly safe??
Martin
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Message 2133767 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 1:00:14 UTC
Last modified: 12 Mar 2024, 1:00:35 UTC

Reassuring?

Mentour Pilot interviewed:

... Boeing (and the Aviation Industry) ft. Mentour Pilot


Amongst the beautiful positivity, we have:

  • "Streamlining the operation... Reducing costs and raising production..."

  • 'Don't want to hear about a metal tube flying at 800mph with loose bolts...'

  • GPS directed/controlled automated landings?... (Especially anywhere near Russia, Kaliningrad, Iran, ...?)



Superficially reassuring?

Are you happy to play the Boeing numbers game?

Rather than enjoying a healthy culture and methodology of safety first?


Fly safe?
Martin


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Message 2133770 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 1:25:30 UTC

For a brisk summary, see:

Boeing's Downfall [Greed Over Safety] feat. Mentour Pilot


Quite a turn-around?...

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Message 2133776 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 4:31:52 UTC

As expected Clear Air Turbulence is blamed on Boeing. Or did they run into wake turbulence? which might be a fault of air traffic control if there is any in that part of the Pacific.

As to "technical fault", Isn't Chile moving in the direction of persecuting women who have miscarriages? A well and truly screwed up legal system, so all statements are to fully cover the rear of the highest bribe.

I seriously doubt we will ever have a fair and accurate report on what happened. As sure as Latam is going to make every effort the CVR and FDR are overwritten well before someone thinks to ask for them in an investigation. Only hope would be if NZ impounded the aircraft and aircrew.
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Message 2133777 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 5:08:30 UTC

Well that answers that, sort of.

Fifty injured after pilot ‘lost instrumentation’ on LATAM flight from Sydney to Auckland.

The pilot of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner that plunged suddenly en route from Sydney to Auckland on Monday, injuring 50 people, reportedly told passengers after the terrifying incident that his “gauges just blanked out” and he “lost all ability to fly the plane”......
And I might as well throw this in as well.

Boeing whistleblower John Barnett found dead from ‘self-inflicted’ wound.
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Message 2133779 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 7:06:04 UTC

FAA audit of Boeing’s 737 Max production found dozens of issue
The FAA also conducted 13 product audits for the part of the inquiry that focused on Spirit AeroSystems, which makes the fuselage, or body, of the 737 Max.


Original https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/faa-audit-boeing-737-max.html
The presentation reviewed by The Times, though highly technical, offers a more detailed picture of what the audit turned up. Since the Alaska Airlines episode, Boeing has come under intense scrutiny over its quality-control practices, and the findings add to the body of evidence about manufacturing lapses at the company.

For the portion of the examination focused on Boeing, the F.A.A. conducted 89 product audits, a type of review that looks at aspects of the production process. The plane maker passed 56 of the audits and failed 33 of them, with a total of 97 instances of alleged noncompliance, according to the presentation.

The F.A.A. also conducted 13 product audits for the part of the inquiry that focused on Spirit AeroSystems, which makes the fuselage, or body, of the 737 Max. Six of those audits resulted in passing grades, and seven resulted in failing ones, the presentation said.
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Message 2133781 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 10:17:54 UTC - in response to Message 2133777.  

To my reading, all very suspicious. And a very sad death.

Note the quote from John:

“My concerns are with the 737 and 787, because those programs have really embraced the theory that quality is overhead and non-value-added, so those two programs have really put a strong effort into removing quality from the process.”



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Message 2133786 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 10:48:36 UTC - in response to Message 2133776.  
Last modified: 12 Mar 2024, 10:52:12 UTC

Clear Air Turbulence was my first thought, except why then go to all the obfuscation of a 'technical' 'issue'?...


... CVR and FDR are overwritten...

That all-too-brief 2 hours limit is something Boeing has clung onto for decades far too long!...

How has the FAA allowed that ruse for oh so very much too long?

Expectedly, the flight recorders overwrote the details needed in the recent Alaska Airlines door blow-out... And that aircraft was mere minutes to getting back onto the ground!


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Message 2133787 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 10:48:44 UTC - in response to Message 2133776.  

As expected Clear Air Turbulence is blamed on Boeing. Or did they run into wake turbulence? which might be a fault of air traffic control if there is any in that part of the Pacific.

As to "technical fault", Isn't Chile moving in the direction of persecuting women who have miscarriages? A well and truly screwed up legal system, so all statements are to fully cover the rear of the highest bribe.
Something like this has happened to Airbus planes before. Similar incident: Qantas A330-300: flight QF72 SIN-PER, 2008-10-07:
Sudden loss of altitude. Many injured. Cause: Error in flight attitude computer processing AOA sensor values, its software, or bitflips due to cosmic rays, or coincidence. The root cause could not be determined with 100% certainty. At this time the A330 had been a reliable aircraft design for almost 20 years. Nevertheless, software deficiencies were identified.
a more detailed report

I seriously doubt we will ever have a fair and accurate report on what happened. As sure as Latam is going to make every effort the CVR and FDR are overwritten well before someone thinks to ask for them in an investigation. Only hope would be if NZ impounded the aircraft and aircrew.
Still no credible details to the LATAM report of a "technical incident". Absolut nothing. Gary's suspicions could be true.
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Message 2133791 - Posted: 12 Mar 2024, 14:16:46 UTC - in response to Message 2133777.  

Well that answers that, sort of.

Fifty injured after pilot ‘lost instrumentation’ on LATAM flight from Sydney to Auckland.

The pilot of a Boeing 787 Dreamliner that plunged suddenly en route from Sydney to Auckland on Monday, injuring 50 people, reportedly told passengers after the terrifying incident that his “gauges just blanked out” and he “lost all ability to fly the plane”......

So just who was joining the mile high club in the cockpit and flipped the breaker while they were swinging from the chandelier?

If juice is lost flight controls can't move so no upset. Airplanes lose one engine all the time hence the generator on that side. Could that be why if is all fed into a battery anyway? Tell me the PAX cabin lights didn't blink but power was lost of the flight deck only? Don't forget the flight controls move from a hydraulic pump not an electric generator.

Someone has made up CYA story.
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Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
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