Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
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Message 2131956 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 0:13:32 UTC

More problems for Boeing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrKgZWMk1EA Boeing 737 Max-7/-10 Certification HALTED! 1 Feb 2024
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Message 2131957 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 3:45:07 UTC - in response to Message 2131846.  
Last modified: 2 Feb 2024, 3:45:44 UTC

This is where I feel strongly that ALL passenger aircraft must be fitted, and those in service retrofitted, to include EICAS - ECAM to alert and guide the pilots without the need for fumbling the unwieldy encyclopaedias of paper checklists...

EICAS message: Cabin Depress -> Upon completion of Memory items as shown on emergency card at 4-7 ...

Those emergency cards aren't huge, they are usually just a recitation of the memory items...
1) Don oxygen mask
[...]
6) Pick up with step 5-102-AP on page 382 in abnormal procedures

It is the last item, the page number, for the rest of the checklist that is the one forgotten.

... And none of that "the way of Boeing" works when the paperwork has flown out the door during the hurricane force whoosh of depressurization, and the pilots are too stressed to be able to recite random parts of the Boeing Bible...


Hail Mary?...

Or fly safe??
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Message 2131958 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 3:49:57 UTC - in response to Message 2131956.  

More problems for Boeing, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrKgZWMk1EA Boeing 737 Max-7/-10 Certification HALTED! 1 Feb 2024

Very much indeed so...

So...

Do Boeing pilots have any trigger fingers left for any other "red hot" switches that they must pounce upon from their impossibly long list of "memory items" for what Boeing hasn't properly designed or fixed?...

All with sudden death if missed?...


To me, Boeing is sounding ever more like flying on a twitchy bomb!

Careful now?...


Or fly safe??
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Message 2131959 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 3:51:17 UTC

Here's the latest summary as seen by Maximus Aviation:


Boeing Has Told TOO Many LIES. Boeing Can NOT BE TRUSTED To Fix The Max! I Won't Fly It Will You?


Fly safe?...
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Message 2131981 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 13:47:46 UTC - in response to Message 2131958.  

Just now watched that again. Personally, I feel completely aghast:

Totally bat-s**t crazy.

Total loss of aircraft for the sake of that last scrap of greedy profit and safety and sense and safe operation be damned...

Crazy.

And silly high stress for the pilots!

And that fault is across ALL 737 MAX aircraft... Including those presently flying.

One person sadly has died already. And we nearly lost the entirety of another plane full of passengers...


If it's Boeing, I ain't going!

Fly safe??
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Message 2131988 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 15:42:17 UTC - in response to Message 2131957.  

This is where I feel strongly that ALL passenger aircraft must be fitted, and those in service retrofitted, to include EICAS - ECAM to alert and guide the pilots without the need for fumbling the unwieldy encyclopaedias of paper checklists...

EICAS message: Cabin Depress -> Upon completion of Memory items as shown on emergency card at 4-7 ...

Those emergency cards aren't huge, they are usually just a recitation of the memory items...
1) Don oxygen mask
[...]
6) Pick up with step 5-102-AP on page 382 in abnormal procedures

It is the last item, the page number, for the rest of the checklist that is the one forgotten.

... And none of that "the way of Boeing" works when the paperwork has flown out the door during the hurricane force whoosh of depressurization, and the pilots are too stressed to be able to recite random parts of the Boeing Bible...

But that was from the Airbus bible.
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Message 2131992 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 17:50:38 UTC

You can now scold Boeing as long and as often as you want. The fatal mistake that caused this misery was made more than a decade ago.

It should never have happened that Airbus built the A320neo series without Boeing having designed, certified and already produced a completely new aircraft to replace the 737/757. Since this fatal error Boeing has to run in panic mode to maximize 737 Max production rates, to further reduce costs in order to save their market share... in order to generate enough profit for a new 737/757. Some chaos seems unavoidable. A Mission Impossible?

Eight years ago when Lufthansa, after operating 737 for 50 years, said goodbye (newspaper article "Bobby geht von Bord" (Bobby disembarks) in German, photos) to its last one (a classic 737-300), there was a farewell ceremony, special flights, visits to aircraft maintenance. Crews told newspapers about their memories with "Bobby" as they called them. It were 737s which marked the worst moment of post WW2 German history (hijacked 737 "Landshut") as well as the happiest moments (first domestic flight crossing the Iron Curtain in 1989 still with a crazy but mandatory detour over a third country (see map)). Another newspaper published a wide-angle ultra HD photo of the classic 737 cockpit on its website. Every label was readable. The farewell to Lufthansa Cargo's last MD11 was similarly tearful. Aircrafts with character, with a soul. The soon-to-be farewell of the Jumbo (747-400) will be similar.

Airbus aircraft are efficient, soulless computers with strangely misshapen fronts. Nobody will ascribe character or a soul to these tin cans; or even remember them. The A300 or A310? Long forgotten. A few still groan as air freighters through the nights.

...and that's why Boeing will do it... the Mission Impossible.

You might guess which plane I first flew on as a child? _______ 757-200 ;-)
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Message 2131996 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 21:10:31 UTC - in response to Message 2131992.  

The fatal mistake that caused this misery was made more than a decade ago.

Nearly 30 years ago, with the Boeing MD merger and Boeing using the MD accountancy model for company policy, instead of the proven engineering led model. Where if you design the correct models, profit will follow.
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Message 2131998 - Posted: 2 Feb 2024, 21:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 2131988.  
Last modified: 2 Feb 2024, 21:29:54 UTC

... but that was from the Airbus bible.

In that case, those instructions are displayed on the centre console display.


Fly safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2132018 - Posted: 3 Feb 2024, 1:23:09 UTC - in response to Message 2131998.  

... but that was from the Airbus bible.

In that case, those instructions are displayed on the centre console display.

No they aren't. On the Airbus it says get your EFB out and look it up using your iPad.
Those detailed instructions are Airline Specific so not in Airbus ROM.
Note: all Major airlines use an EFB and nearly universally are Apple IPad's

Bet you didn't know nearly every flight uses Boeing software ForeFlight, no matter who makes the airplane, and nearly every instrument approach/departure procedure diagram, en-route map used is a Boeing product, Jeppesen plates.

If you fly somewhere you use Boeing, even the Boeing Stearman biplane.
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Message 2132019 - Posted: 3 Feb 2024, 1:25:33 UTC - in response to Message 2131996.  

The fatal mistake that caused this misery was made more than a decade ago.

Nearly 30 years ago, with the Boeing MD merger and Boeing using the MD accountancy model for company policy, instead of the proven engineering led model. Where if you design the correct models, profit will follow.

You mean the Military cost plus contractor model, where the bid is far below cost just to start the project.
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Message 2132020 - Posted: 3 Feb 2024, 1:34:26 UTC - in response to Message 2132019.  
Last modified: 3 Feb 2024, 1:35:27 UTC

The fatal mistake that caused this misery was made more than a decade ago.
Nearly 30 years ago, with the Boeing MD merger and Boeing using the MD accountancy model for company policy, instead of the proven engineering led model. Where if you design the correct models, profit will follow.
You mean the Military cost plus contractor model, where the bid is far below cost just to start the project.
And that's what you get with a company that's run by bean counters that can't even count beans to start with. The only beans that they can count correctly are those going into their own pockets.
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Message 2132023 - Posted: 3 Feb 2024, 2:37:38 UTC

Could not resist sharing this
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Message 2132050 - Posted: 3 Feb 2024, 18:49:04 UTC - in response to Message 2132020.  

The fatal mistake that caused this misery was made more than a decade ago.
Nearly 30 years ago, with the Boeing MD merger and Boeing using the MD accountancy model for company policy, instead of the proven engineering led model. Where if you design the correct models, profit will follow.
You mean the Military cost plus contractor model, where the bid is far below cost just to start the project.
And that's what you get with a company that's run by bean counters that can't even count beans to start with. The only beans that they can count correctly are those going into their own pockets.
Nah, it is the model of Congressional black project funding. No idea what it will cost, just like the space race, but we need it so cost no object. Why McDonnell Douglas never made it in the commercial aircraft business. Boeing wanted in on the Military cost no object business where bean counters are superfluous.
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Message 2132127 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 9:14:23 UTC

It looks as if some customers are reaching the end of the road with Boeing:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68201371

The boss of Emirates airline has warned Boeing is in the "last chance saloon", saying he had seen a "progressive decline" in its performance.

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Message 2132133 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 12:33:55 UTC - in response to Message 2132127.  

Thanks for that.

Note the direct reminder in that article:

... A total of 346 people were killed in the crashes, which were caused by flawed flight control software.



Fly safe folks?
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Message 2132138 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 17:19:23 UTC

And just as you thought it couldn't get worse it did:
https://news.sky.com/story/boeing-may-delay-jet-deliveries-after-supplier-finds-glitch-with-fuselages-13064698
More holes drilled in the wrong places, a load of new aircraft will be delivered late. The brown smelly stuff must be getting deeper in the board room.
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Message 2132157 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 21:38:56 UTC - in response to Message 2132138.  
Last modified: 5 Feb 2024, 21:45:42 UTC

Thanks for that...

But...

HARK!

What new PR euphemism is this?...


Getting closer to the reality:

Aircraft rivet hole issues cause delays to Boeing 737 Max deliveries
wrote:
... a non-conformance ...

... incorrect drilling ...

... discovered that the holes were too close to the edge of the piece of metal in a window frame...


... And the consequence is a repeat of the de Havilland Comet revets/structure failure deadly disasters?...


How many more people are to needlessly die for yet more make-beneficial-Boeing-profits?

Unfortunately, this is no laughing matter...

Fly safe?
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Message 2132162 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 22:10:10 UTC - in response to Message 2132157.  
Last modified: 5 Feb 2024, 22:38:10 UTC

No, the comet was a design failure not a manufacturing failure!
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Message 2132171 - Posted: 5 Feb 2024, 23:59:37 UTC - in response to Message 2132162.  
Last modified: 6 Feb 2024, 0:00:58 UTC

No, the comet was a design failure not a manufacturing failure!

Yes, indeed so. The Comet was designed and manufactured before metal fatigue was better understood.

The results of testing the Comet, and the findings about metal fatigue, were fully openly made public to the rest of the world to avert any other aircraft disasters of that type of failure...

Until... Now.


Rivet holes too close to windows means a weakened structure and increased fatigue effects...

And that's no laughing matter...


Fly safe?
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Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
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