Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

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Message 2133230 - Posted: 29 Feb 2024, 8:05:45 UTC - in response to Message 2133206.  

90 days to come up with a plan, but how many more to implement that plan?
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Message 2133231 - Posted: 29 Feb 2024, 10:04:01 UTC - in response to Message 2133230.  

90 days to come up with a plan, but how many more to implement that plan?

I also have to ask, is that calendar days or working days.

I only ask because I have been in a situation where two different organisations used different methods to say the same thing. One said a total of six weeks (42 days) the other said simply 30 working days.
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Message 2133235 - Posted: 29 Feb 2024, 17:09:35 UTC - in response to Message 2133230.  

90 days to come up with a plan, but how many more to implement that plan?
How many more B737s will leave assembly lines within the next 90 days? How many until the plan is implemented?
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Message 2133236 - Posted: 29 Feb 2024, 17:26:31 UTC - in response to Message 2133235.  

Boeing are capped at 38 737 per month by the FAA, so if we take 90 days as three months then it's 114 during the "planning" phase. After that it's a very open question because if the FAA doesn't like Boeing's plan then that monthly figure could drop, or if the plan is acceptable, and is properly implemented in a timely manner then that figure could rise. Either way round Boeing are in for a whole load of pain as they turn a behemoth onto a course away from the iceberg.
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Message 2133286 - Posted: 1 Mar 2024, 15:46:07 UTC

On a different plane:


Boeing agrees to pay $51m over export violations in China and other countries
wrote:
Company accused of violations including Chinese employees improperly downloading files relating to Pentagon programs...



Whatever next?...

Fly safely even??
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Message 2133293 - Posted: 1 Mar 2024, 19:31:05 UTC

Boeing is in talks to buy back fuselage maker Spirit AeroSystems after spate of quality defects
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/01/spirit-aerosystems-boeing.html
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Message 2133306 - Posted: 2 Mar 2024, 4:22:31 UTC - in response to Message 2133293.  

I don't see how much that will improve the quality/safety of Boeing aircraft unless they completely overhaul Spirit Aero Systems QC from top to bottom and inside to outside.
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Message 2133319 - Posted: 2 Mar 2024, 10:16:53 UTC

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-seeks-to-buy-spirit-aero-19-years-after-selling-off-troubled-wichita-plant/
Aerospace financial analyst Rob Stallard of Vertical Research told investors Friday that Boeing buying Spirit would likely be “great for Spirit, not so great for Boeing” in terms of the share price.
The current market capitalization of Spirit is $3.3 billion. To buy the company — even if it offloads the Airbus units — Boeing would have to pay most of that plus take on some of Spirit’s debt.

Boeing ended 2023 with more than $36 billion in net debt and a promise to investors that it would prioritize paying off that debt.

To make the purchase, Boeing could either raise equity by issuing new shares or borrow the money and increase its debt.
Boeing's CEO Calhoun in May 2023:
He acknowledged the quality lapses at Spirit on both the 787 and the MAX but said that, with collaboration between Boeing and Spirit, “those are solvable. I don’t think you acquire a company to solve them.”

Since then, quality control and financial problems at Spirit have multiplied.
Boeing and Spirit are closely intertwined, but:
In 2020, Spirit cut 6,800 employees and put salaried workers on a four-day workweek to preserve cash. Many of the most seasoned workers who were laid off or who chose to retire never returned.

In addition, the pandemic exacerbated long-term financial distress at Spirit, much of that due to the pricing squeeze that Boeing applied to all its suppliers under former CEO Jim McNerney.

Spirit has publicly said it lost an average of more than $1 million per airplane on the nearly 1,200 forward fuselage sections it built for the 787, a cumulative loss totaling $1.4 billion.
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Message 2133444 - Posted: 5 Mar 2024, 18:46:33 UTC

Scary incredible...

Flying on a wing and prayers and total reliance on a post-it note on the cockpit controls to avert disaster!


See, hear:

HUGE Boeing News Week! Is It ALREADY TOO LATE To Save Boeing?


For real?... A post-it note to avoid critical damage?...

("Critical damage" means usually that people die...)

How did that get past the FAA?...


Fly safe?...
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Message 2133445 - Posted: 5 Mar 2024, 18:50:25 UTC - in response to Message 2133206.  
Last modified: 5 Mar 2024, 18:51:26 UTC

Mentour Pilot gives his update on the in-flight loss of a door on the Alaska Airlines flight:


See, hear:

Boeing 737MAX BlowOut!! The Scandal behind Alaska Airlines flight 1282
wrote:
Imagine, one second you are sitting happily in your aircraft seat, maybe watching a movie or chatting with your friends and then, all of a sudden, you are staring straight out through a gaping hole in the cabin as your aircraft starts rapidly descending down towards the ground below...



That is surprisingly forthright from the usually overly enthusiastically positive and gently meek Mentour Pilot...

Fly safe?...
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Message 2133484 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 10:24:14 UTC - in response to Message 2133444.  

How did that get past the FAA?...
It didn't.

It's the exact reason why Boeing postponed the approval of Max 7 and Max 10 variants until this issue is solved. The FAA will then also force Boeing to modify the anti-icing control for all delivered Max 8 and 9 accordingly. The same procedure with later mandatory upgrades to the AOA sensors (root reason of the deadly crashes in conjunction with MCAS) was applied to the existing fleet of Max 8 and 9s.

You can question: Is it safe to accept such known deficits for the time being, mitigated only by FAA directives or warnings in the operation handbook. I don't know. But I think there are other such known deficiencies at most Airbus or Boeing planes and especially at older planes of e.g. McDonnell Douglas, Fokker, or Saab, which are handled this way. Where's the red line representing a severe risk, demanding the immediate grounding of the fleet?
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Message 2133499 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 16:28:55 UTC - in response to Message 2133484.  

Where's the red line representing a severe risk, demanding the immediate grounding of the fleet?

No self proclaimed jackass is posting clickbait scare youtube videos? They aren't a leader so it isn't fun to kick them?

I'm sure it is psychology and nothing else.
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Message 2133505 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 16:45:49 UTC - in response to Message 2133499.  
Last modified: 6 Mar 2024, 16:46:20 UTC

... I'm sure it is psychology and nothing else.

Mmmm... Let's see...

Don't use this one obscure switch and risk the engines icing up and failing, for you to then fall out of the sky...

... Or... Alternatively...

Use this switch in the "On" position for too long and destroy the engines and the entire aircraft.


Meanwhile, you are busy actually flying the aircraft and dealing with other air traffic and Air Traffic Control and keeping to your flight plan and time flies away with you... Into a Bang Bang Boom Boom Whooooosh...


Not good.

How soon before that happens, again?

Note that the anti-icing has already destroyed engines in flight for Boeing aircraft. With very scary results... Already...


Fly safe?
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Message 2133508 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 17:26:11 UTC - in response to Message 2133499.  
Last modified: 6 Mar 2024, 17:28:05 UTC

No self proclaimed jackass is posting clickbait scare youtube videos? They aren't a leader so it isn't fun to kick them?

I'm sure it is psychology and nothing else.
I wouldn't call these Mentour guy's videos "clickbait scare". He has a talent to explain things in detail and with good visualizations for any layman. You could read hours of NTSB reports and still not understand a thing. He deserves the money for his 'clickbait'.

The Maximus guy is tiring for non-natives; a strange pronunciation he has... or an accent, a dialect... laziness to move lips... hmmm.

Anyway, it is important to inform the public so that no irrational fear of technical systems can arise because they are not understood at all. Don't let irrational myths cover facts.

Off-topic but appropriate: If you don't provide constant, detailed and appropriate information, a frightened, ignorant majority tends to force a technology to be banned. Then a gut feeling turns into certainty that a technology is intolerably dangerous, e.g. nuclear power plants in Germany, Italy, Austria...

Or think of AI.... The people at Google, Apple, Meta,... better start today to teach the ignorant public how AI technology works. That's an ambitious, but important thing to do.
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Message 2133511 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 18:10:55 UTC - in response to Message 2133505.  

Use this switch in the "On" position for too long and destroy the engines and the entire aircraft.
Only the engine's intake cowling may get deformed or crumbled... No risk no fun... I understand your point...

Note that the anti-icing has already destroyed engines in flight for Boeing aircraft. With very scary results... Already...
Hmmm, that supposedly affects 737 Max series only with 737's aged cockpit controls but state-of-the-art engines containing lots of non-metal materials. Boeing will add a cheap thermo switch and the problem will be solved.

What's the riskiest flight to take? A scheduled flight operated by 737 Max? I don't think so. It's any flight in Russia, operated by stolen western planes, under sanctions, ignoring maintenance rules, lacking the know how to do D or C checks on western aircraft, smuggling replacement parts from dubious sources... That's dangerous.
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Message 2133512 - Posted: 6 Mar 2024, 18:16:00 UTC - in response to Message 2133508.  
Last modified: 6 Mar 2024, 18:16:41 UTC

Thanks for that.


... I wouldn't call these Mentour guy's videos "clickbait scare". He has a talent to explain things in detail and with good visualizations for any layman. You could read hours of NTSB reports and still not understand a thing. He deserves the money for his 'clickbait'.
I find Mentour Pilot to be overly positive and too forgiving of Boeing...

But then again, his career is flying the Boeing 737 and for training other pilots how to fly that aircraft. He is very careful not to scare the public and his passengers!


The Maximus guy is tiring for non-natives; a strange pronunciation he has... or an accent, a dialect... laziness to move lips... hmmm...
Yep, I'll agree about his 'difficult' accent.

But note: That ... really ... is ... how ... they ... droll ... on ... and ... on ... for ... how ... they ... speak ... over ... there...

I play his channel at x2 speed! You can also raise the pitch a little, to make it more understandable.


There is also Blancolirio who is very clear in explaining the various happenings in aviation.


Very strange in comparison for how Airbus stays out of the disaster news?...

Fly safe folks?
Martin
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Message 2133526 - Posted: 7 Mar 2024, 6:41:48 UTC - in response to Message 2133508.  
Last modified: 7 Mar 2024, 6:49:33 UTC

No self proclaimed jackass is posting clickbait scare youtube videos? They aren't a leader so it isn't fun to kick them?

I'm sure it is psychology and nothing else.
I wouldn't call these Mentour guy's videos "clickbait scare". He has a talent to explain things in detail and with good visualizations for any layman. You could read hours of NTSB reports and still not understand a thing. He deserves the money for his 'clickbait'.
Anyone, like Petter, who has hired producers for their youtube ... producers have to earn their paycheck.

The Maximus guy is tiring for non-natives; a strange pronunciation he has... or an accent, a dialect... laziness to move lips... hmmm..
He doesn't seem like the brightest light bulb; to me he seems to be an agenda pusher.

Kelsy (74 Gear) has some clickbait, but he doesn't use scare, just humor. Juan Browne (blancolirio) seems far less into the clickbait must make money off youtube crowd, in fact his crash reports are usually demonetized by youtube. Listening to a few of his not Boeing crash reports makes you realize that the scare that is many of the other "reports" is just that. They seem to start from a place where the machine can not be made to do bad things by the operators of the machine. Tesla's aren't supposed to crash but they do even in full self drive mode. It is possible to flip the fuel selector to off while in flight. It is possible to turn the electric system off in flight. So what is so damn different about turning on something that shouldn't be as opposed to turning off something that shouldn't be? That is what the hell the POH Pilot Operating Handbook is for. Do this. Don't do this. If this condition expect this performance. Anyone who has ever read one as their life depends on it, will tell you there are a lot of things you, the operator, have to understand and rules to follow and not break. What the hell is different about cabin pressure to automatic vs. deice to off?

MCAS being missing from the POH along with AOA sensor issues is a big deal.
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Message 2133527 - Posted: 7 Mar 2024, 6:45:57 UTC - in response to Message 2133512.  

Very strange in comparison for how Airbus stays out of the disaster news?...
Per capita how many operating hours per crash? Don't forget to count the Boeing biplanes still flying.
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Message 2133530 - Posted: 7 Mar 2024, 8:21:45 UTC

That is what the hell the POH Pilot Operating Handbook is for.

That's correct, but only if the information in the POH is complete and accurate. Given the rate of change in modern airliners it is highly probable that there are "features" and "bugs" that change the way the aircraft actually operates and the POH hasn't caught up with reality yet (although an e-POH is more likely to be more current than a paper version)
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Message 2133531 - Posted: 7 Mar 2024, 8:23:01 UTC - in response to Message 2133527.  

Very strange in comparison for how Airbus stays out of the disaster news?...
Per capita how many operating hours per crash? Don't forget to count the Boeing biplanes still flying.
No, I think one shouldn't mix different decades when comparing aircraft accidents. If you separate statistics by aircraft type or generation (e.g. four generations of 737) you clearly see that flight safety improved tremendously over the decades, independent of Airbus or Boeing.
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Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
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