Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

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Message 2105226 - Posted: 16 Aug 2022, 19:06:17 UTC - in response to Message 2105225.  

Further thought of mine...


For all the work the FAA is having to do to chase up 'deficiencies' in the Boeing design, build, QA, and servicing/maintenance:

Is there any charge made against Boeing for the work the FAA is having to do to try to keep Boeing aircraft non-deadly?

Or can Boeing "game" the system for them to do the game of aircraft 'on the cheap' and leave it to the (costly) hard work of the FAA to avert disaster?


There was that time that Boeing sacked a whole factory load of QA staff due to them slowing down the production line...


Fly safe?...
Martin
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Message 2105249 - Posted: 17 Aug 2022, 1:03:18 UTC - in response to Message 2105226.  

Martin:

It is cheaper to buy insurance than to fix the problem(s).
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Message 2105461 - Posted: 21 Aug 2022, 17:53:51 UTC
Last modified: 21 Aug 2022, 19:00:54 UTC

To my glib casual glance, this looks like the pilots stalled, or partially stalled, or left an incorrect altitude set, for executing their go-around... At low altitude... A scary Ouch!!


AAIB investigation to Boeing 737-8K5, G-FDZF
wrote:
... Aberdeen Airport, 11 September 2021...

... During the manually flown go-around, which was initiated at 2,250 ft amsl, the aircraft initially climbed, but just before it reached the cleared altitude of 3,000 ft amsl it began to descend. It descended to 1,780 ft amsl (1,565 ft agl) with a peak rate of descent of 3,100 fpm, and accelerated to an airspeed of 286 kt (the selected airspeed was 200 kt) before the crew corrected the flightpath. The aircraft descended for a total of 57 seconds before the climb was re-established. It is likely that the crew allowed the aircraft to descend unnoticed having become overloaded by the high workload during the go-around...



I've not read the report...

But for a first question:

    Is the Boeing cockpit a much higher workload than for Airbus?



I do have my suspicions that the Boeing cockpits, that are contrived to remain working to 1960's standards, are an unnecessary danger compared to more modern designs that have learnt from over a half-century of flying!...


Fly safe folks!
Martin


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Message 2105924 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 5:25:18 UTC

Boeing hit with worldwide safety alert after flaw discovered in take-off and landing app
Boeing has been hit with a worldwide safety alert after British security experts say they discovered a possible flaw in its software used by pilots in take-offs and landings.
A global “safety alert for operators” was issued by the US Federal Aviation Administration earlier this month after researchers found an issue with Boeing’s Onboard Performance Tool (OPT), a mobile app that pilots can use to make safety calculations before take-off and landing.

The tool uses data on metrics such as weather and weight to help make calculations for planes leaving and returning to the tarmac.

The possible flaw meant hackers could ­tamper with critical data and trick pilots into using the wrong settings, potentially causing a crash.

Pen Test Partners, based in Buckinghamshire, discovered the potential issue and reported them to Boeing. Ken Munro, boss of Pen Test Partners, said their findings showed that the mobile app could have been “calculating and putting out the wrong data” to pilots.
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Message 2105939 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 14:56:24 UTC - in response to Message 2105924.  
Last modified: 29 Aug 2022, 14:57:53 UTC

Isn't that a function of the cockpit Flight Management Computer?...

Any internet connected device, especially mobile phones/tablets, are completely unsafely vulnerable and shouldn't be trusted for aviation safety!

Perhaps even, not used at all... (So as to avoid the danger of being 'led astray'.)


Far from Boeing specific:

And then again, we have the widespread use and reliance upon a very popular and widely used app called SkyDemon...

A lot of dangerous mayhem could be caused if that flew into a bug or was deliberately hacked...


Fly safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2105949 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 16:41:06 UTC - in response to Message 2105939.  

It's primary use is during pre-flight planning so the FMC can have the weather and weight data loaded more quickly than using the "somewhat poor" FMC human interface. The flight crew can do this in the relative comfort of the crew room without the potential for interruptions from ground crew - not good to be interrupted while ploughing through the arcane FMC interface.

(From what I gather B* haven't really updated the interface since Noah was building the arc, but A* being later to the game of passenger jets have a more user-focused interface.)

On the data security front - the vast majority of non-military users use weather data that comes either directly, or indirectly, via the internet. The reason is primarily that "the internet" give access to world wide data at quite high resolution both current and within suitable timescales (a few hours to a day).
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Message 2105950 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 16:59:47 UTC - in response to Message 2105949.  

On the data security front - the vast majority of non-military users use weather data that comes either directly, or indirectly, via the internet. The reason is primarily that "the internet" give access to world wide data at quite high resolution both current and within suitable timescales (a few hours to a day).
I wonder if that's being hacked too?

Hungary's weather chief sacked over wrong forecast

What had been billed "Europe's biggest fireworks display" had been organised for Saturday evening to celebrate St Stephen's Day - the national holiday,

But seven hours before the scheduled start, the government postponed the event, citing extreme weather warnings.

The weather, however, stayed calm - leading to the sackings of the head and deputy head of the weather service.
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Message 2105951 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 17:12:28 UTC - in response to Message 2105950.  

That is worrying if there are no security checks in place for the reliability of the data... The weather forecast is as safety critical as the Air Traffic Control...

Note PooTin is well known to be a very sour party pooper...


Stay safe folks!
Martin
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Message 2105952 - Posted: 29 Aug 2022, 17:16:47 UTC - in response to Message 2105949.  

... "somewhat poor" FMC human interface...

Which in itself can be expected to be a safety issue, if only for adding unnecessary hassle and stress to the pilots, or even just for pissing them off...


Grumpy/stressed/distracted pilots do not fly very well...

Stay safe folks!!
Martin
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Message 2106061 - Posted: 31 Aug 2022, 13:47:02 UTC
Last modified: 31 Aug 2022, 13:48:28 UTC

Is this for real?...


Artemis: Nasa will try to launch Moon rocket on Saturday
wrote:
An attempt at a lift-off on Monday had to be scrubbed when one of four engines on the vehicle would not cool down to its required operating temperature.

After reviewing data, engineers believe they now understand why the issue occurred. They think it is likely related to an inaccurate sensor reading...

... develop a strategy to deal with the problem on launch day. This involves starting the process of chilling the engines earlier in the countdown...

... On Monday, sensor readings suggested the engine was 15-20 degrees C short of where it needed to be. Engineers believe the bleed-through system was working properly; it was just that the sensor system didn't accurately reflect real temperature conditions. The engineering team plans to start the cooling process about 45 minutes earlier in Saturday's countdown, hoping this will bring everything into line...



I believe that this is being operated by Boeing...

What happened to the NASA thoroughness of old?

Really a "faulty sensor"?...

Or just a game of Management taking a 'gamble' to just get something moving?...

I am very suspicious with that report in that the blame is being lined up on ("anonymous") "Engineers"...


Really, we shouldn't be having to wish and rely upon "good luck" to go flying!

Stay safe folks!...
Martin
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Message 2106074 - Posted: 31 Aug 2022, 17:40:39 UTC - in response to Message 2106061.  

I believe that this is being operated by Boeing...

Airbus Defence and Space
Lockheed Martin
Northrop Grumman
Aerojet Rocketdyne
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Message 2106076 - Posted: 31 Aug 2022, 18:22:00 UTC - in response to Message 2106074.  

See:

Artemis Partners
wrote:
... NASA’s prime contractors for SLS include Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman...


... And of those, I'm sure Boeing is the "lead"...


Here's where we just have to hope?...

Fly safe folks!
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Message 2106084 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 1:27:45 UTC - in response to Message 2106076.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2022, 1:29:46 UTC

See:

Artemis Partners wrote:
... NASA’s prime contractors for SLS include Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman...


... And of those, I'm sure Boeing is the "lead"...

Launch (countdown) contractor United Launch Alliance.

Aerojet Rocketdyne is the prime contractor for the four powerful RS-25 engines

Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor for the design, development, testing, and production of the twin solid rocket boosters

Teledyne Brown provides engineering, technical support, and hardware for the launch vehicle stage adapter.

ULA is working collaboratively with Boeing to develop the 5-m ICPS (upper stage)

Orion (spacecraft) Crew Module (CM) space capsule designed by Lockheed Martin and the European Service Module (ESM) manufactured by Airbus Defence and Space.

Boeing did get pegged to build the frame of the core stage that the working parts bolt onto.

SLS is the rocket, "Artemis" is a series of planned flights.
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Message 2106087 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 5:37:07 UTC

I am just posting to let you know that I am getting sick and tired of all these accusatory and inflammatory posts against the airlines. They are doing the best that they can and for somebody to go around insinuating that they are intentionally avoiding safety issues is quite sickening.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 2106100 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 12:40:29 UTC - in response to Message 2106087.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2022, 13:00:40 UTC

... avoiding safety issues is quite sickening.
Completely agreed.


... intentionally avoiding safety issues is quite sickening.
Also completely agreed.



Why then do Boeing 737 aircraft, even the ones being built this week, still do not include cockpit safety features that have been a worldwide requirement for well over a decade (and longer?)?...


Fly safe?
Martin
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Message 2106101 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 12:56:49 UTC - in response to Message 2106084.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2022, 12:59:15 UTC

... Boeing did get pegged to build the frame of the core stage that the working parts bolt onto...

So... We have as high profile news for the SLS development and test:

    "The SLS core was unexpectedly complex and required a full redesign over that of the STS central tank...": Long time and expensive...

    A Green Run test failed due to a hydraulic power unit failing. The Green Run had to be rerun.

    Repeated hydrogen leaks for what is a copy of the proven hardware from STS.



Now... Those aspects can be expected, but at what cost?

And such equipment fails are usually caught early on during design and test...

And now... We have chill-down temperature readings that are claimed to be faulty... Again, when such equipment is normally tested well in advance precisely to avoid costly delays/interruptions.


For the latest 'anomaly':


    Is it really that somehow a temperature sensor is giving a partial and inaccurate reading?

    Or is there some other real underlying problem such as inadequate available bleed cooling?




To my mind, this does all rather suggest cost-cutting/corners-cutting (or dangerous sloppiness)... Which for my suspicions does appear to be a consistent signature of Boeing cutting back on the disruption caused from allowing the QA people to do their job... For which Boeing does have a highly publicized adverse record.

I really hope that there is not going to be a Management Fudge and "Wing it" to push this one off the launch pad regardless.

This flight test really does need to work astronomically better than the Boeing Starliner fiascos...


Fly safe?

Here's hoping!
Martin


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Message 2106105 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 13:19:20 UTC - in response to Message 2106101.  

For the latest 'anomaly':

    Is it really that somehow a temperature sensor is giving a partial and inaccurate reading?

    Or is there some other real underlying problem such as inadequate available bleed cooling?


Since the RS-25 engine is a Aerojet Rocketdyne product, flew on the Shuttle before Boeing had an aerospace division, and there were no issues in the multiple test firings, somehow I suspect a bad sensor part from some tiny sensor maker, but you go ahead and continue to bash Boeing ...
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Message 2106106 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 13:27:32 UTC - in response to Message 2106105.  
Last modified: 1 Sep 2022, 13:31:51 UTC

For the latest 'anomaly':

    Is it really that somehow a temperature sensor is giving a partial and inaccurate reading?

    Or is there some other real underlying problem such as inadequate available bleed cooling?


Since the RS-25 engine is a Aerojet Rocketdyne product, flew on the Shuttle before Boeing had an aerospace division, and there were no issues in the multiple test firings, somehow I suspect a bad sensor part from some tiny sensor maker, but you go ahead and continue to bash Boeing ...

... And that is the whole point.

The RS-25s have a remarkable reliability.

Boeing is responsible for adding the bits around that engine to make it go.

Boeing has gone cheap on the sensors or on the installation without taking responsibility to make sure it works?...

Other thoughts are whether the Boeing classics of FOD and failed or partially operating valves (cf. their KC-46 tanker and Starliner) have bunged up the works...


So, the excuse is that Boeing can always shrug their shoulders and blame someone else?...

... And call upon their insurers to keep them out of jail?...


Fly safe?
Martin

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Message 2106107 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 13:30:30 UTC - in response to Message 2106106.  

The fiery proof comes on the next launch attempt...


Fly safe!
Martin
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Message 2106134 - Posted: 1 Sep 2022, 21:55:38 UTC - in response to Message 2106106.  

The RS-25s have a remarkable reliability.

Boeing is responsible for adding the bits around that engine to make it go.

The sensor that is specified and installed by Aerojet Rocketdyne, the same sensor that worked on Shuttle missions, the same sensor that ran correctly in the pre-flight test stand full power firings and never was touched again while the fully assembled engine cluster was fitted into the rocket shell. That temperature sensor?

Have you forgotten more than one RS-25 engine failed on the shuttle program.

Your right. Boeing allowed the wrong Prime Contractor Aerojet Rocketdyne to build the RS-25 engines. Wait a second, NASA picks Prime Contractors.
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Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
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