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Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Further thought of mine... For all the work the FAA is having to do to chase up 'deficiencies' in the Boeing design, build, QA, and servicing/maintenance: Is there any charge made against Boeing for the work the FAA is having to do to try to keep Boeing aircraft non-deadly? Or can Boeing "game" the system for them to do the game of aircraft 'on the cheap' and leave it to the (costly) hard work of the FAA to avert disaster? There was that time that Boeing sacked a whole factory load of QA staff due to them slowing down the production line... Fly safe?... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30970 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Martin: It is cheaper to buy insurance than to fix the problem(s). |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
To my glib casual glance, this looks like the pilots stalled, or partially stalled, or left an incorrect altitude set, for executing their go-around... At low altitude... A scary Ouch!! AAIB investigation to Boeing 737-8K5, G-FDZF wrote: ... Aberdeen Airport, 11 September 2021... I've not read the report... But for a first question: Is the Boeing cockpit a much higher workload than for Airbus?
See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19356 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
Boeing hit with worldwide safety alert after flaw discovered in take-off and landing app Boeing has been hit with a worldwide safety alert after British security experts say they discovered a possible flaw in its software used by pilots in take-offs and landings. A global “safety alert for operators” was issued by the US Federal Aviation Administration earlier this month after researchers found an issue with Boeing’s Onboard Performance Tool (OPT), a mobile app that pilots can use to make safety calculations before take-off and landing. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Isn't that a function of the cockpit Flight Management Computer?... Any internet connected device, especially mobile phones/tablets, are completely unsafely vulnerable and shouldn't be trusted for aviation safety! Perhaps even, not used at all... (So as to avoid the danger of being 'led astray'.) Far from Boeing specific: And then again, we have the widespread use and reliance upon a very popular and widely used app called SkyDemon... A lot of dangerous mayhem could be caused if that flew into a bug or was deliberately hacked... Fly safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
rob smith Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22491 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 |
It's primary use is during pre-flight planning so the FMC can have the weather and weight data loaded more quickly than using the "somewhat poor" FMC human interface. The flight crew can do this in the relative comfort of the crew room without the potential for interruptions from ground crew - not good to be interrupted while ploughing through the arcane FMC interface. (From what I gather B* haven't really updated the interface since Noah was building the arc, but A* being later to the game of passenger jets have a more user-focused interface.) On the data security front - the vast majority of non-military users use weather data that comes either directly, or indirectly, via the internet. The reason is primarily that "the internet" give access to world wide data at quite high resolution both current and within suitable timescales (a few hours to a day). Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14676 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
On the data security front - the vast majority of non-military users use weather data that comes either directly, or indirectly, via the internet. The reason is primarily that "the internet" give access to world wide data at quite high resolution both current and within suitable timescales (a few hours to a day).I wonder if that's being hacked too? Hungary's weather chief sacked over wrong forecast What had been billed "Europe's biggest fireworks display" had been organised for Saturday evening to celebrate St Stephen's Day - the national holiday, |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
That is worrying if there are no security checks in place for the reliability of the data... The weather forecast is as safety critical as the Air Traffic Control... Note PooTin is well known to be a very sour party pooper... Stay safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... "somewhat poor" FMC human interface... Which in itself can be expected to be a safety issue, if only for adding unnecessary hassle and stress to the pilots, or even just for pissing them off... Grumpy/stressed/distracted pilots do not fly very well... Stay safe folks!! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Is this for real?... Artemis: Nasa will try to launch Moon rocket on Saturday wrote: An attempt at a lift-off on Monday had to be scrubbed when one of four engines on the vehicle would not cool down to its required operating temperature. I believe that this is being operated by Boeing... What happened to the NASA thoroughness of old? Really a "faulty sensor"?... Or just a game of Management taking a 'gamble' to just get something moving?... I am very suspicious with that report in that the blame is being lined up on ("anonymous") "Engineers"... Really, we shouldn't be having to wish and rely upon "good luck" to go flying! Stay safe folks!... Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30970 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I believe that this is being operated by Boeing... Airbus Defence and Space Lockheed Martin Northrop Grumman Aerojet Rocketdyne |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
See: Artemis Partners wrote: ... NASA’s prime contractors for SLS include Aerojet Rocketdyne, Boeing, and Northrop Grumman... ... And of those, I'm sure Boeing is the "lead"... Here's where we just have to hope?... Fly safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30970 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
See: Launch (countdown) contractor United Launch Alliance. Aerojet Rocketdyne is the prime contractor for the four powerful RS-25 engines Northrop Grumman is the prime contractor for the design, development, testing, and production of the twin solid rocket boosters Teledyne Brown provides engineering, technical support, and hardware for the launch vehicle stage adapter. ULA is working collaboratively with Boeing to develop the 5-m ICPS (upper stage) Orion (spacecraft) Crew Module (CM) space capsule designed by Lockheed Martin and the European Service Module (ESM) manufactured by Airbus Defence and Space. Boeing did get pegged to build the frame of the core stage that the working parts bolt onto. SLS is the rocket, "Artemis" is a series of planned flights. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51477 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
I am just posting to let you know that I am getting sick and tired of all these accusatory and inflammatory posts against the airlines. They are doing the best that they can and for somebody to go around insinuating that they are intentionally avoiding safety issues is quite sickening. "Time is simply the mechanism that keeps everything from happening all at once." |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... avoiding safety issues is quite sickening.Completely agreed. ... intentionally avoiding safety issues is quite sickening.Also completely agreed. Why then do Boeing 737 aircraft, even the ones being built this week, still do not include cockpit safety features that have been a worldwide requirement for well over a decade (and longer?)?... Fly safe? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
... Boeing did get pegged to build the frame of the core stage that the working parts bolt onto... So... We have as high profile news for the SLS development and test: "The SLS core was unexpectedly complex and required a full redesign over that of the STS central tank...": Long time and expensive... A Green Run test failed due to a hydraulic power unit failing. The Green Run had to be rerun. Repeated hydrogen leaks for what is a copy of the proven hardware from STS.
Is it really that somehow a temperature sensor is giving a partial and inaccurate reading? Or is there some other real underlying problem such as inadequate available bleed cooling?
See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30970 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
For the latest 'anomaly': Since the RS-25 engine is a Aerojet Rocketdyne product, flew on the Shuttle before Boeing had an aerospace division, and there were no issues in the multiple test firings, somehow I suspect a bad sensor part from some tiny sensor maker, but you go ahead and continue to bash Boeing ... |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
For the latest 'anomaly': ... And that is the whole point. The RS-25s have a remarkable reliability. Boeing is responsible for adding the bits around that engine to make it go. Boeing has gone cheap on the sensors or on the installation without taking responsibility to make sure it works?... Other thoughts are whether the Boeing classics of FOD and failed or partially operating valves (cf. their KC-46 tanker and Starliner) have bunged up the works... So, the excuse is that Boeing can always shrug their shoulders and blame someone else?... ... And call upon their insurers to keep them out of jail?... Fly safe? Martin FOD: Foreign objects and debris See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21097 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
The fiery proof comes on the next launch attempt... Fly safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30970 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The RS-25s have a remarkable reliability. The sensor that is specified and installed by Aerojet Rocketdyne, the same sensor that worked on Shuttle missions, the same sensor that ran correctly in the pre-flight test stand full power firings and never was touched again while the fully assembled engine cluster was fitted into the rocket shell. That temperature sensor? Have you forgotten more than one RS-25 engine failed on the shuttle program. Your right. Boeing allowed the wrong Prime Contractor Aerojet Rocketdyne to build the RS-25 engines. Wait a second, NASA picks Prime Contractors. |
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