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Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Well, here is the thing, the screw/nut combo is the bad one on the Boeing and the rivet is the good one. Doubt it is a secret. I'm sure there is an FAA standards document from the '50s that indicates that is the method to use. And you know that the Boeing lawyers made sure that their design followed those standards to the letter. Remember this is an aircraft of the '50s. It has to be made to 1950's standards or it would need a new type certificate. But, I have two words to say on the earthing discussion: "Ground Loop" |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 17333 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
But, I have two words to say on the earthing discussion: "Ground Loop" Did you really 'have to'. The rules are followed to the letter on electrical grounding, and then the electronics people follow the rules on fitting connectors on shielded cables and what do you get? |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
But, I have two words to say on the earthing discussion: "Ground Loop" Had to have two words too. Large power currents on shields and signal ground leads. Always a good thing! |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
Large power currents on shields and signal ground leads. Hence there is the good design practice of ensuring that there is guaranteed and testable ground bonding (and that can be to multiple points that are all electrically bonded together,) to ensure that the ground reference voltage stays clamped at zero Volts for all the equipment. Anything inferior to that causes very unexpected 'strange' problems as implied by your example. For audio equipment for incorrect grounding, you might only get the annoyance of the sound of mains hum. Whereas for critical electrical/electronic control equipment such as on an aircraft, with bad electrical grounding you can very possibly die. Also note that good electrical grounding is vital for the aircraft equipment (and hence the aircraft) to survive a lightning strike... Fly safe folks! Martin Edit: Grammar See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Grumpy Swede (I stand with Ukraine) ![]() Send message Joined: 1 Nov 08 Posts: 8850 Credit: 49,849,242 RAC: 65 ![]() ![]() |
Capitalists and profit makers are only interested in profit. They don't care about if a few thousand dies from aircraft accidents, even if that would happen on a regular basis. That's why I stopped flying many years ago, and will not do it again, until all the criminal capitalists and profit makers are all behind bars for the rest of their criminal lives, and manufacturing of aircrafts is under total control of sane people and organizations, and not criminal profit making mafia syndicates, and insane criminals. Down on the ground, in any of these capitalists and profit makers unsafe cars, at least I have some control over how their unsafe cars behaves. There's really too few real criminals in prison...... |
Sirius B ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24331 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 ![]() |
There's really too few real criminals in prison......They're in power instead. |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 17333 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
U.S. requires inspections for wire failure on Boeing 737 Classic planes Reuters - The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said on Friday it was requiring U.S. operators of 143 Boeing Co (BA.N) 737 Classic series airplanes to check for possible wire failures stemming from an investigation into an Indonesia crash in January. |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 17333 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
Boeing to pay $17 million to settle plane production issues AP - Federal officials say Boeing will pay at least $17 million and take steps to fix production problems on its 737 jets, including the Max. |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
Thanks for that. That article lists a very scary litany of faults covering hundreds of planes. Yet their share price rose 4%?!... Personally, I very much doubt they have "resolved all production 'issues'" safely, regardless of whatever placatory words their PR spokesperson utters... Fly safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Of the Profit, by the Profit, for the Profit Yet their share price rose 4%?!...https://www.investors.com/news/boeing-stock-top-737-customer-southwest-needs-hundreds-more-planes/ |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
Of the Profit, by the Profit, for the Profit Thanks for that. Crazy stuff... I wonder if there are any clauses in the the purchase for the Boeing execs to personally compensate all those affected for any further corner cutting catastrophes? Then the question is what will kill more passengers: The Boeing 737 or the facilitated increase in the spread of COVID? My personal jaundiced guess is that there will be no effective mitigation added to the aircraft aircon... (Such as increased airflow or UV sterilization in the air ducts...) Fly safe? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 17333 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
Of the Profit, by the Profit, for the Profit Probably because the person setting the fine didn't understand the difference between Millions and Billions, and didn't put in the final three zero's. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Of the Profit, by the Profit, for the Profit You assume too much. The person who didn't understand is the legislator who wrote the law that sets the maximum fine at a number that would make a natural person bankrupt but isn't even pocket change for a publicly traded company. |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
Boeing stays in the news... Boeing Charged Japan 1,500% Markup on Part, Air Force Says wrote: Boeing Co. charged the Japanese government an “excessive” price for some spare parts for its refueling tanker plane, as much as 16 times more than the U.S. Air Force paid for its latest versions, according to a service assessment... Boeing's Latest 737 MAX Crisis Eases wrote: The aircraft manufacturer is resuming 737 MAX deliveries after the latest pause, but Boeing isn't out of the woods yet... The $15 billion jet dilemma facing Boeing’s CEO wrote: Boeing Co CEO Dave Calhoun faces a multibillion-dollar dilemma over how to rebuild sales... From my personal view and perspective, greedily cutting corners and inglorious price gouging has deadly expensive consequences. How strong is the incentive for airline operators to use non-Boeing (and non-certified) parts for the sake of silly prices?... How many planes for how long have been flying without adequate protection for the electrical equipment for the sake of proper robust design and manufacture and quality assurance checking?... Is Boeing going to leap into another 737MAX-style panic development on-the-cheap to compete?... Fly safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 17333 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
... The 737 MAX's latest problem stemmed from a trivial change to the manufacturing process for "two cabinets or racks that hold electronic equipment on the MAX flight deck," ... A decision to apply primer after holes were fully drilled -- rather than before -- impeded the racks' ability to serve as an electrical grounding path... WHAT. trivial!!!! There are lots of Boeing people that do NOT understand grounding paths if they think it is trivial. There is nothing wrong in painting the holes after drilling, because, you should NEVER rely on that path to ground. Electronic cabinet racks are frequently mounted on anti-vibration mounts especially when in machines that vibrate. They are made with a big block of rubber, never known to be a conductor of electricity. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Strap from fuselage to rack rail to bypass that vibration mount.... The 737 MAX's latest problem stemmed from a trivial change to the manufacturing process for "two cabinets or racks that hold electronic equipment on the MAX flight deck," ... A decision to apply primer after holes were fully drilled -- rather than before -- impeded the racks' ability to serve as an electrical grounding path... Engineer #1 every pound in excess weight costs the customer $10,000.00 in jet fuel over the life of the plane, strip excess weight every place you can. Engineer #2 every screw/rivet hole that isn't filled with primer is the start of a corrosion problem Engineer #3 as long as the rivet holes don't have primer we can ground through the rack and not have a separate grounding strap saving a pound for each piece of equipment. Worker #1 We are out of rivets and sales is screaming to meet a deadline, no reason we can't use a nut, bolt and safety wire, we have lots of them. Every single one of them is absolutely correct. Every single one of them is absolutely wrong. This is how the Swiss cheese aligns. |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
WHAT. And there's the deadly point... The assembly actions to cause a deadly fault in that example of fragile design/implementation are trivial, yet, as we know, the consequences are deadly. All exacerbated by cheaply deskilling the workforce so that the pressured harassed abused overworked zombies putting the pieces together use no thought processes to check what they are doing. Worse still, for this example, using the rivet fixing as a 'sneaky' grounding path is hidden secret knowledge that noone else will see or know about... Until disaster is caused. Which is where for that example, such practices must be regulated against and enforced at the design stage. Hence, equipment must be explicitly designed in with grounding that is explicitly marked and is testable. Anything less is a design and manufacture trap waiting to kill. However... Hopes of ignorantly greedy profit falsely cuts the corners into a disaster... This is NOT rocket science either! For this example, Boeing and the passengers and crew flying on those hundreds of impacted planes have been very 'lucky'... Fly safe folks? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
... For this example, Boeing and the passengers and crew flying on those hundreds of impacted planes have been very 'lucky'... Can those people sue Boeing for having had their lives negligently endangered? Fly safe folks? Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 15756 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
Expensively blundering and bumbling along?... Deadly expensive? Another Boeing-Airbus tanker war is coming soon wrote: Boeing and Airbus could find themselves duking it out as early as next year to provide aerial refueling aircraft to the U.S. Air Force, reigniting a bitter battle between Boeing’s KC-46 and Airbus’s A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport. FAA mandates inspection checks on Boeing 737 MAX flight-control system wrote: The Federal Aviation Administration released a directive Thursday requiring airlines to do regular maintenance checks of the flight-control software on Boeing’s 737 MAX and to periodically test the operation of cutoff switches the pilots use if system failures occur... Ryanair's first Boeing Max jet to arrive in Dublin today wrote: RYANAIR will today take delivery of its first Boeing Max jet after a more than two-year delay following two deadly crashes involving the aircraft type... Whatever deadly short term greedy profit was gained has now been long lost in the deadly consequences. Yet, the deadly silliness continues? Really? The Boeing 737 MAX flight control system is too much of an unreliable unknown not to require repeated external testing to see if it still seems to work well enough? I really hope those tests are full and complete "end-to-end" tests! (Unlike as was nearly fatally not done for the Boeing "Star Liner" flight test...) For myself, I'm not flying the Boeing MAX under any circumstances other than if already dead. At the cost and risk of who's lives?... Fly safe folks!! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 29062 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Really? The Boeing 737 MAX flight control system is too much of an unreliable unknown not to require repeated external testing to see if it still seems to work well enough? WOW! You mean you shouldn't have to test a mechanical switch to see if it works? WOW! You need this https://www.youtube.com/user/UGOT2CTHIS Dan will teach you about the number one cause. |
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