Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

Author	Message
rob smith Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22447 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380	Message 2054677 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 14:35:40 UTC The way things are going just now I wonder how many within Boeing are thinking much the same Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? ID: 2054677 · Reply Quote

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24905 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7	Message 2054678 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 14:55:08 UTC - in response to Message 2054677. Well they do have a precedent to look at - Aldenham Works. Letting yuppie idea folk & accountants take over cost London big time. Since it closed (let run down so a better excuse to close) & failing to create a new design but with the same principle of separate chassis & bodies created major cost in shorter service life per vehicle. ID: 2054678 · Reply Quote

Richard Haselgrove Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14674 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874	Message 2054679 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 15:03:27 UTC - in response to Message 2054678. Had to look that one up. Aldenham Works ID: 2054679 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30929 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32	Message 2054686 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 21:01:01 UTC - in response to Message 2054676. Would have been much better & "cheaper" in the long term to have designed a new aircraft once the 737 reached 50 years old. DC-3 is a beautiful aircraft still in airline service today. ID: 2054686 · Reply Quote

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24905 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7	Message 2054689 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 21:21:13 UTC - in response to Message 2054686. Yep, freight not passenger. ID: 2054689 · Reply Quote

Wiggo Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 36361 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489	Message 2054693 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 21:52:47 UTC Actually there's at least 10 DC-3's that still do scenic flight tours around Australia and New Zealand that I know of and they were doing a roaring trade before COVID hit. Cheers. ID: 2054693 · Reply Quote

betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11408 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66	Message 2054695 - Posted: 4 Aug 2020, 21:54:43 UTC - in response to Message 2054689. Not true. Fly a legendary airliner. The Douglas DC-3 (also known as the C-47 Skytrain) is the plane that made air travel popular. For pilots this isn't just a ride. It's a chance for you to take off, fly and land a piece of aviation history. You'll be the one in the pilot's seat. For non-pilots, it’s an incredible opportunity to experience history in the air. https://incredible-adventures.com/dc3.html http://buffaloairways.com/index.php?page=douglas-dc-3 ID: 2054695 · Reply Quote

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20991 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 2055066 - Posted: 11 Aug 2020, 0:50:49 UTC Last modified: 11 Aug 2020, 0:51:12 UTC Slowly catching up fatally years too late: U.S. proposes fine of $1.25 million on Boeing for pressuring workers at airplane plant wrote: The FAA said Boeing managers pressured workers to perform inspections on an aircraft that was not eligible for inspection because of various issues; harassed people to make them perform inspections more quickly; threatened to replace workers; and retaliated against a unit manger for filing an undue pressure report by declining to interview the “highly qualified manager” for a promotional position... ... The FAA said the pressure came from executives including the factory’s vice president of 787 operations, a senior quality manager and the director of jet deliveries... ... A 2016 Boeing survey released by a congressional panel found nearly 40% of 523 employees handling safety-certification work perceived “potential undue pressure” from managers, such as bullying or coercion... ... And that's the 40% diligent and 'brave' enough to make comment! All in our only one deadly greedy world, Fly safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 2055066 · Reply Quote

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24905 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7	Message 2055073 - Posted: 11 Aug 2020, 2:43:47 UTC - in response to Message 2055066. The thing that worries me this side of the pond is that BA threw them a lifeline. ID: 2055073 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30929 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32	Message 2055079 - Posted: 11 Aug 2020, 5:51:02 UTC Boeing from Seattle to Chicago. Is that the date safety became secondary to "Of the Profit, By the Profit, For the Profit"? ID: 2055079 · Reply Quote

W-K 666 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19313 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67	Message 2055081 - Posted: 11 Aug 2020, 6:51:34 UTC - in response to Message 2055079. Boeing from Seattle to Chicago. Is that the date safety became secondary to "Of the Profit, By the Profit, For the Profit"? If you also include all the implications of the takeover of MD. ID: 2055081 · Reply Quote

W-K 666 Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19313 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67	Message 2055544 - Posted: 20 Aug 2020, 2:20:34 UTC Last modified: 20 Aug 2020, 2:23:10 UTC Meet the 737-8. Looks familiar you say. That's a 737 Max, but Boeing had some problems with that aircraft and people don't want to fly in it, so they have renamed it, so that you will get into it without any qualms. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/20/boeing-737-max-plane-new-name-poland-enter-air ID: 2055544 · Reply Quote

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20991 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 2056094 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 0:19:33 UTC - in response to Message 2055544. Meet the 737-8... Thanks for that, one to watch... Is not a Marketing "Renaming" of a product somewhat disingenuous and a somewhat unwholesome sign?... I'll be watching Boeing for a year or two yet before chancing their products with my life! Stay safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 2056094 · Reply Quote

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20991 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 2056095 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 0:31:19 UTC Last modified: 30 Aug 2020, 0:32:06 UTC Three Boeing snippets from the last week: Boeing grounds eight 787 jets after {manufacturing} flaws create risk of {possibly catastrophic} failure wrote: Boeing Co. grounded eight of its 787 Dreamliner jets for inspection and repair after finding two manufacturing flaws that together could compromise the structural integrity of the aircraft. The distinct issues involve the composite barrel sections at the rear of the widebody plane, which are melded together ... to fall short ... for withstanding stress, creating a risk of in-flight failure... ... That facility, which is devoted to the 787, has suffered quality lapses and was part of a 2015 case brought by the FAA that prompted Boeing to pay a $12 million penalty. Boeing fabricates Dreamliner barrels from strands of carbon-composite tape laid down by giant robots... Workers then meld together two of the sections with a rear bulkhead that helps maintain cabin pressure. The first issue ... involves shims that ... fill any gaps where the two barrels are joined to ensure that stresses are distributed as designed. Some of the gaps were improperly filled... The aircraft also were found to have roughness on the inner skin of the barrel wall. Combined, the two issues meant that the segments might not withstand the required structural loads... Boeing is separately addressing another concern: that faulty shim installation on its own might contribute to structural fatigue [that might lead to unexpected failure]. The company is analyzing data on the 977 Dreamliners already in service to determine if additional action, including inspections, is required... Canada Completes Boeing 737 MAX Flight Tests, Analyzing Results: Statement wrote: ... Canada has completed simulator and flight tests of Boeing Co's 737 MAX jetliner, which was grounded worldwide after two fatal crashes, and is analyzing the results... European flight safety agency to start 737 MAX test flights wrote: ... “While Boeing still has some final actions to close off, EASA judges the overall maturity of the redesign process is now sufficient to proceed to flight tests,” the agency said. “These are a prerequisite for the European agency to approve the aircraft’s new design.” EASA said the hope is to return the plane to service as soon as possible, but only once the agency is convinced it is safe... As always, judge for yourselves... Stay safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 2056095 · Reply Quote

betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11408 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66	Message 2056098 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 1:22:37 UTC - in response to Message 2056095. Last modified: 30 Aug 2020, 1:25:30 UTC Boeing South Carolina is home to the company's second 787 Dreamliner final assembly and delivery facility. AFAIK these planes were built there. Boeing has a long history and culture of building quality aircraft in in the Puget Sound area, South Carolina not at all, instead their claim to fame is the low cost of labor and low taxes.. You get what you pay for. Unfortunately it is the legally mandated fiduciary responsibility to share holders that mandates this type of immoral behavior. Martin don't get too cocky This school of thought was first was espoused by the London School of Economics. In our country the Chicago school caught on quite rapidly. ID: 2056098 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30929 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32	Message 2056101 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 2:32:39 UTC - in response to Message 2056098. Boeing South Carolina is home to the company's second 787 Dreamliner final assembly and delivery facility. AFAIK these planes were built there. Boeing has a long history and culture of building quality aircraft in in the Puget Sound area, South Carolina not at all, instead their claim to fame is the low cost of labor and low taxes.. You get what you pay for. Unfortunately it is the legally mandated fiduciary responsibility to share holders that mandates this type of immoral behavior. Martin don't get too cocky This school of thought was first was espoused by the London School of Economics. In our country the Chicago school caught on quite rapidly. You forgot a little, you make campaign contributions to get a liability limit, then you buy insurance up to that amount. Now there is zero risk to the shareholder no matter how many defects there are. ID: 2056101 · Reply Quote

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20991 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 2056116 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 12:25:28 UTC - in response to Message 2056101. You forgot a little, you make campaign contributions to get a liability limit, then you buy insurance up to that amount. Now there is zero risk to the shareholder no matter how many defects there are. And such becomes the 'price of a life' for the beancounters/accountants to weigh against blind greed for profits... All at whose cost?... Such is the present cruel costly 'system' in use. How do we include some morals for the good benefit of all? Stay safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 2056116 · Reply Quote

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30929 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32	Message 2056122 - Posted: 30 Aug 2020, 15:01:06 UTC - in response to Message 2056116. And such becomes the 'price of a life' for the beancounters/accountants to weigh against blind greed for profits... Ask about Covid being fake and open up everything. ID: 2056122 · Reply Quote

Sirius B Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24905 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7	Message 2056244 - Posted: 1 Sep 2020, 13:28:16 UTC Can you imagine Boeing involved in this project? Solid built engines but the airframe held together with chewing gum & duct tape. Rival powers jockey for lead ID: 2056244 · Reply Quote

ML1 Volunteer moderator Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20991 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20	Message 2056248 - Posted: 1 Sep 2020, 14:38:42 UTC - in response to Message 2056244. Last modified: 1 Sep 2020, 14:39:09 UTC Can you imagine Boeing involved in this project? Solid built engines but the airframe held together with chewing gum & duct tape. Rival powers jockey for lead Thanks for that. That article is a good summary of present developments and an incredible lead-in to the real news which is: ...The potential for hypersonic travel to let VIPs arrive with maximum impact has been spotted by the US Air Force unit that deals with presidential jets. It has commissioned Atlanta-based hypersonic start-up Hermeus to evaluate a Mach 5 transport design carrying up to 20 passengers. It means that in the future, the president of the United States might one day join a very select band of Mach 5 travellers. Are we being Trumped?! Hopefully all to be put together better and safely rather than following some of the recent Boeing examples! Fly safe! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 2056248 · Reply Quote

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