Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)

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Message 2038827 - Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 1:31:03 UTC
Last modified: 19 Mar 2020, 1:32:04 UTC

A year onwards and Boeing remains in the news regarding the Boeing 737 Max catastrophes...

This Boeing (and aviation) specific thread has been split off so as not to continue to swamp the original "Profits 1st, Safety 2nd?" thread. See Part 1 and Part 2 of that thread.


As listed in "Wikipedia - Boeing 737 MAX groundings":

  • 29th October 2018: Lion Air Flight 610 crashed after take-off from Jakarta, killing all 189 people;
  • 10th March 2019: Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 crashed shortly after take-off from Addis Ababa, killing all 157 on-board;
  • 10th March 2019: First grounding - Ethiopian Airlines grounded its fleet immediately;
  • 11th March 2019: Civil Aviation Administration of China, and Indonesia's Ministry of Transportation grounds the 737 Max;
  • 12th March 2019: EASA (Europe) suspends all flight operations of the 737 Max in Europe, followed by multiple other authorities;
  • 13th March 2019: Canada and USA and multiple others ground the 737 Max;
  • 18th March 2019: Full worldwide grounding of the 737 Max (387 airplanes total).


The 737 Max remains grounded worldwide. The grounding has became the longest ever of a U.S. airliner.


A full year later, a good brief summary is given in:

YouTube - Bloomberg: How Boeing Lost Its Way
wrote:

Boeing is an American institution. But one year after the grounding of the 737 Max, the company's stock has fallen by almost 50% and its future is anything but certain. So what were Boeing's failures in the aftermath of two tragedies in which the flawed plane crashed, killing 346 people, and can Boeing regain its elite status in U.S. aviation once more?



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Message 2038829 - Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 1:37:55 UTC

Thanks. Suggest you remove the Pt 3 bit as when Pt 2 reaches 500 posts, A possible 3rd will be Part 3. Anyway, by putting Boeing 1st in the title alleviates any confusion should be Pt 3 be created. :-)
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Message 2038834 - Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 1:40:30 UTC - in response to Message 2038829.  
Last modified: 19 Mar 2020, 1:41:25 UTC

Thanks. Suggest you remove the Pt 3 bit as when Pt 2 reaches 500 posts, A possible 3rd will be Part 3. Anyway, by putting Boeing 1st in the title alleviates any confusion should be Pt 3 be created. :-)

Hence the longer title and full "(Part 3)" to distinguish from your forthcoming "Pt 3" branding/abbreviation ;-) ...


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Message 2038835 - Posted: 19 Mar 2020, 1:41:21 UTC - in response to Message 2038834.  

Fair enough. It was just a suggestion. :-)
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Message 2039081 - Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 7:54:53 UTC

Nikki Haley resigns from Boeing's board over bailout pursuit
Haley informed Boeing of her decision to resign March 16 and her resignation is effective immediately.
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Message 2039092 - Posted: 20 Mar 2020, 9:28:33 UTC - in response to Message 2039081.  

Nikki Haley resigns from Boeing's board over bailout pursuit
Haley informed Boeing of her decision to resign March 16 and her resignation is effective immediately.
More than likely she got wind of her impeding forced departure and bailed out before it came along. ;-)

Cheers.
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Message 2040334 - Posted: 25 Mar 2020, 16:12:34 UTC

WaPo - Senate aid package quietly carves out billions intended for Boeing, officials say
March 25, 2020 at 1:35 p.m. GMT

Lawmakers have inserted in the Senate’s $2 trillion stimulus package a little-noticed provision aimed at providing billions of dollars in emergency assistance to Boeing, the aerospace giant already under fire for deadly safety lapses in its commercial jets, three people with knowledge of the internal deliberations said.

The Senate package includes a $17 billion federal loan program for businesses deemed “critical to maintaining national security.” The provision does not mention Boeing by name but was crafted largely for the company’s benefit, two of the people said. Other firms could also receive a share of the money, one of the people said. The people spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations.

The carve-out is separate from the $58 billion the Senate package is providing in loans for cargo and passenger airlines, as well as the $425 billion in loans it is allocating to help firms, states and cities hurt by the current downturn. Congressional aides cautioned that the Senate bill was still going through last-minute revisions and could change.
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Message 2042030 - Posted: 31 Mar 2020, 17:34:28 UTC
Last modified: 31 Mar 2020, 17:36:34 UTC

Here is the latest selected update for the saga of Boeing...

Yet more damnation along with added maneuverings towards a devilish deal?...


Judge for yourselves:


FAA Initiates New Inquiry Into 737 Safety
wrote:
... the 737 aircraft experienced a gradual loss of cabin pressure. The jet landed without incident or injury to the passengers.

“The aircraft was taken out of service and is currently in maintenance receiving repairs,” according to a Southwest Airlines statement.

Published reports indicate FAA inspectors found a 12-in. crack in the fuselage "skin"...


The Boeing 737 MAX – What Needs To Be Fixed?
wrote:
The Boeing 737 MAX is one of the most praised and also the [most] criticized aircraft ever built...

... the Boeing 737 MAX is a fine aircraft if you look at the pure numbers. It has great fuel efficiency, very versatile thanks to its range and perfectly hits that sweet spot with passenger numbers.

But there is no escaping the elephant in the room, which is the grounding of the type last year after two crashes which left more than 300 dead. Boeing has been hard at work to find a solution...


The Air Force's Troubled Boeing KC-46 Tankers Leak Fuel Excessively
wrote:
Boeing's seemingly perpetually troubled KC-46A Pegasus tanker has yet another major problem, its fuel system leaks excessively. This comes nearly a month after the U.S. Air Force made clear that it would not use its existing examples for aerial refueling, their core mission set, except in an absolute emergency. This was due to already serious existing issues...


Boeing wins $1.5 billion contract for a fresh batch of P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft
wrote:
... The P-8 Poseidon is a military derivative of the Boeing 737 Next-Generation airplane, ... performing missions ranging from sub-hunting and surveillance to search and rescue.

Eight of the newly ordered aircraft will go to the U.S. Navy, six will go to South Korea’s navy, and four will go to the Royal New Zealand Air Force. Deliveries are scheduled to begin in the 2022-2023 time frame...


Is Boeing Going Bankrupt?
wrote:
Although not coined during the 2007-2008 financial crisis, the term “too big to fail” was used heavily at the time, as banks and multinational corporations were handed a lifeline in bailouts on account of their size. The term has been bandied about again recently, as Boeing...


Boeing Closes In on U.S. Lifeline After $142 Billion Wipeout
wrote:
Boeing Co. is edging closer to winning a government bailout as the once-mighty company races to secure a lifeline... Boeing called this week for $60 billion in aerospace aid, mostly for itself...


The Boeing Lifeline
wrote:
It has been quite a volatile week on the financial markets, booking historic strong gains after booking historic losses earlier. Boeing (NYSE:BA) was no exception, ... In this report, I have a look at why Boeing shares booked solid gains during the week, but also why there's no reason to be overly cheerful...

... So, Boeing’s shares surged due to Calhoun’s remarks...


This is why Trump shouldn't bail out Boeing
wrote:
... Boeing’s existence might be more important to the economy than the existence of a mid-sized manufacturer of widgets in small town Indiana, but what about the existence of a thousand mid-sized manufacturers of anything in small town anywhere? And how do we quantify the importance of safeguarding individual jobs in a consistent and, crucially, fair way?

Then there’s Boeing’s previous corporate strategy to reflect upon. It’s a champion of stock buybacks and dividend payouts.

Unscrupulous and undeserving...



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Message 2042036 - Posted: 31 Mar 2020, 17:53:36 UTC
Last modified: 31 Mar 2020, 19:49:30 UTC

Harking back to a long-time problem on the Boeing 737:


We have this example for something that is very much NOT life critical:

(Note the comment about the power cable...)

PewDiePie! - We built you a gaming PC!


And then we have the 'Boeing methods' as discussed previously.


At last, we have the inevitable:

Boeing To Rewire All MAXes


HOWEVER: What of the remaining 737's that are at risk from the same (potentially catastrophically deadly) fault?...


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Message 2042867 - Posted: 4 Apr 2020, 1:12:16 UTC
Last modified: 4 Apr 2020, 1:13:01 UTC

Silly deadly scary stuff:


Boeing 787s must be turned off and on every 51 days to prevent 'misleading data' being shown to pilots
wrote:
The US Federal Aviation Administration has ordered Boeing 787 operators to switch their aircraft off and on every 51 days to prevent what it called "several potentially catastrophic failure scenarios" – including the crashing of onboard [avionics] network switches...


That timer overrun fault is a very well known problem and 'gotcha' and all very well known since the dawn of computing. How was that missed and not tested for?...

How much more deadly potentially life threatening sloppy programming is there in there to confuse the pilots, or worse?...


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Message 2043939 - Posted: 10 Apr 2020, 1:15:31 UTC
Last modified: 10 Apr 2020, 1:36:35 UTC

More worrying faults found on the grounded 737 Max, and the Starliner test flight is to be reflown:


Boeing to fix new issues in 737 MAX flight control software
wrote:
... one issue involves hypothetical faults in the flight control computer microprocessor, which could potentially lead to a loss of control known as a runaway stabiliser, while the other issue could potentially lead to disengagement of the autopilot feature during final approach...


Contrast that with the details here for the same story:

Stop us if you've heard this before: Boeing's working on 737 Max software fixes for autopilot, stabilization bugs
wrote:
Boeing is working on software patches for two bugs in its infamous 737 Max's flight controller – one that causes the autopilot to drop out during final approach, the other a loss of control and subsequent nosedive mid-flight...

... To be clear, it is said by Boeing that these two bugs, involving the autopilot and stabilization, are new and not related to the faulty MCAS system...


Boeing to fly second Starliner uncrewed test flight
wrote:
... “If Boeing would have proposed a crewed mission as the next flight, NASA would have completed a detailed review and analysis of the proposal to determine the feasibility of the plan,” the agency said. “However, as this was not the recommendation made by Boeing, NASA will not speculate on what the agency would have required.”

NASA added that Boeing still has to address the 61 corrective actions from the independent review. “NASA still intends to conduct the needed oversight to make sure those corrective actions are taken,” the agency said.

“Hats off to Boeing for recommending a repeat of their Orbital Flight Test for the Commercial Crew program,” Loverro tweeted after the Boeing announcement. “Corporate responsibility takes many forms, and this is one of them.”...



So... My personal reading of that is that really? Boeing considers a fault or any single-point-of-failure fault 'hypothetical' until that fault has killed people? Really??!!!

Also, it is amazing how the Boeing Marketing-speak is so obfuscated obscure!...


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Message 2043947 - Posted: 10 Apr 2020, 2:55:28 UTC - in response to Message 2043939.  

Martin as long as fiduciary responsibility is the law public corporations have to behave that way.
Corporations can trace their roots to Crown charter companies such as the East India company and the Hudson's Bay company.
The Crown granted them special privileges in exchange for doing good work for the crown.
Today the state issues charters of incorporation with no reciprocal duties except to pay the taxes which they are unable to avoid.
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Message 2043955 - Posted: 10 Apr 2020, 5:32:29 UTC - in response to Message 2043947.  

Martin as long as fiduciary responsibility is the law public corporations have to behave that way.
Corporations can trace their roots to Crown charter companies such as the East India company and the Hudson's Bay company.
The Crown granted them special privileges in exchange for doing good work for the crown.
Today the state issues charters of incorporation with no reciprocal duties except to pay the taxes which they are unable to avoid.

Certainly not just Boeing,
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52146507
"Some brands are showing a true sense of partnership and high level of ethics in trying to ensure at least enough cash flow to pay workers," Amit Mahtaney, the chief executive of Tusker Apparel Jordan, told the BBC.

"But we've also experienced demands for cancellations for goods that are ready or are work in progress, or discounts for outstanding payments and for goods in transit. They are also asking for a 30 to 120 day extensions on previously agreed payment terms."

In an email obtained by the BBC, one US retailer has asked for a 30% discount "for all payables - current or order", including those already delivered.

The reason they cite is to "get through this extraordinary period".

"Their attitude is one of protecting only shareholder value without any regard to the garment worker, behaving in a hypocritical manner, showing complete disregard to their ethos of responsible sourcing," Vijay Mahtaney said.

"Brand focus on share price, now means some of them don't have money for this rainy day, and are coming to the weakest link in the supply chain, asking us to help them out when they could be applying for a bailout from the US government stimulus package," Vijay added.
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Message 2044313 - Posted: 11 Apr 2020, 23:51:03 UTC - in response to Message 2043947.  

Martin as long as fiduciary responsibility is the law public corporations have to behave that way.
Corporations can trace their roots to Crown charter companies such as the East India company and the Hudson's Bay company.
The Crown granted them special privileges in exchange for doing good work for the crown.
Today the state issues charters of incorporation with no reciprocal duties except to pay the taxes which they are unable to avoid.

Yes, and both those companies set ruthlessly greedy examples that forced government intervention to tidy up their greedy mess, all with great loss of life...

This is where we need to move on and bring in personal responsibility, with no anonymous hiding behind a company name, to check (stop) and balance the more egregious and deadly greed we seem to repeatedly suffer...


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Message 2044315 - Posted: 11 Apr 2020, 23:55:03 UTC - in response to Message 2044313.  

Yes, and both those companies set ruthlessly greedy examples that forced government intervention to tidy up their greedy mess, all with great loss of life...
The government granted them license to act this way, in some ways it ever requires it; it is called "corporation"
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Message 2044320 - Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 0:04:09 UTC
Last modified: 12 Apr 2020, 0:06:13 UTC

The Boeing malaise continues:


New document reveals significant fall from grace for Boeing’s space program
wrote:
...Since December, the company's space issues have also become more widely known following the failure of the company's Starliner capsule to successfully carry out a test flight to the International Space Station. NASA labelled this aborted mission, during which the spacecraft was nearly lost two times, a "high visibility close call." The company has agreed to perform a second test flight without crew to assure NASA of Starliner's safety.

But a new document released by NASA reveals the broader scope of Boeing's apparent decline...


Trump Promises U.S. Will Do 'Whatever is Necessary' to Help Boeing...
wrote:
... The president also said that the U.S. "can't let anything happen to Boeing."

"It's, you know, got so much potential," he said.

The Treasury Department set aside up to $17 billion in aid for Boeing...

... Trump sidestepped a question about whether the aerospace company could be penalized for laying off its workforce after receiving the aid...



All an executive greedy game of too big to be allowed to fail?


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Message 2044322 - Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 0:10:55 UTC - in response to Message 2044315.  
Last modified: 12 Apr 2020, 0:11:54 UTC

Yes, and both those companies set ruthlessly greedy examples that forced government intervention to tidy up their greedy mess, all with great loss of life...
The government granted them license to act this way, in some ways it ever requires it; it is called "corporation"

Yes... We've got a lot of history and a lot of examples of that...

And supposedly we've moved onwards and away from the blood thirsty despots and kingdoms of old...

Time we updated our company rules to something more sustainable, less greedy, and less deadly?


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Message 2044325 - Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 0:30:07 UTC - in response to Message 2044322.  

The modern model was created in The London School of Economics and perfected at the University of Chicago, think Milton Freedman, a brilliant mind with questionable assumptions.
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Message 2044332 - Posted: 12 Apr 2020, 2:09:26 UTC - in response to Message 2044325.  

The modern model was created in The London School of Economics and perfected at the University of Chicago, think Milton Freedman, a brilliant mind with questionable assumptions.

However it is fixed in stare dices of the world in the 1770's and the law of the time when the King was still King.

A corporation is a grant from the King (government) to do any damn thing you want on the assumption that you are scratching the King's back.
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Message 2047226 - Posted: 27 Apr 2020, 7:14:57 UTC

Will Boeing survive?
Meanwhile, Airbus' main rival Boeing is also battling another major crisis due to the year-long grounding of its 737 Max passenger jet, which had been its best selling plane.
On Saturday, the US aviation giant scrapped a $4.2bn (£3.4bn) tie-up with Brazil's Embraer. Some industry analysts saw the move as being triggered by the crises, although the company cited contractual reasons for the decision.
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Message boards : Politics : Boeing: Profits 1st, Safety 2nd? (Part 3)


 
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