SETI@home hibernation

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Profile marsinph
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Message 2036045 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 15:49:50 UTC

Hello everyone.
Like all of you, I am sad. Very sad.
The "reference" world wide known project will sleep (only a little, I hope).
Let us hope that before end of march a second WOW signal would be found, or something else....
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Message 2036046 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 15:55:14 UTC

Well, guess I'm joining Folding now. It's been a good run from my Pentium 3 to a 4 core AMD to a 1050 Ti. It's not much but it was mine. Was only 15 years for me but it was a fun time. By all!
"Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh." - The Doctor
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Message 2036051 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 16:07:14 UTC - in response to Message 2036050.  

Hope they change the s/w to allow Zero RAC people to post.


I verified with the team that they are going to address the possible issue of falling RAC causing the inability to post here. Unknown how but it should be taken care of.
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Message 2036057 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 16:45:57 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

:(

No way, not buying it... Kinda sad
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Message 2036061 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 16:56:38 UTC

It is a pity that the project will end now.
Thanks to the Seti team, otherwise my PC would have died of boredom.
We may see each other again, Who knows?

Bye
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Message 2036066 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 17:01:40 UTC - in response to Message 2035738.  
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 17:02:37 UTC

"The saddest part of this is to read the farewell posts of volunteers who have contributing since the beginning and have never posted before or only a very few times. For twenty years they silently and uncomplainingly kept this project, and hope itself, going, and now they have nothing more they care about to contribute to."

Strong words.. that's me.. and many more as it seems.. I'm glad I was part of your (our) community..

Live long and prosper <3

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Message 2036070 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 17:08:10 UTC

Oh my the end of an era :)
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Message 2036071 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 17:13:54 UTC

To paraphrase Bob Hope:

Tanks for the Work Units
Even when the Wind Blows,
Nothing on my screen,
Not even Visine
When the cpu said
This does not compute,
How fun it was.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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Message 2036072 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 17:16:48 UTC
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 17:19:55 UTC

wow, I can't believe I actually read through all these posts

most people sound sad, but some react in anger or outright denial (or even culminating in stupid conspiracy theories.)

It is almost as if people mourning a dead person or if they were told by the doctor they are about to die.

And some simply don't understand, asking what we were doing all this time. The explenation about "data" that was "not analyzed" doesn't really help here, because these words are fuzzy. Data isn't the same as data, and you might also describe the crunching we did as "analysis".

Let's put it like this:

What we were doing is finding signals in the raw radio recording (this is like if you record everything that goes into your radio antenna, so you listen to all radio stations at ones and hear only noise). Essentially we were tuning for the radio stations, just a lot more precisely. And we reported every single signal we found. We found a lot.

The problem is: How to tell, if these "signals" are really E.T. or from earth or natural phenomena or just random patterns in random noise that look like signals? This is the next step in the analysis.

We essentially reduced a large mind-boggling heap of recorded noise data, to a neat, but still very large, list of signal data. Our combined computing power did the hardest part of the analysis (hard as in raw number of computations), but the rest of it is still hard.

But the bad part is: The second part of the analysis essentially requires to have the whole set of data. It is a task that can't be split up into small WUs like the search for signals in the raw recording, where everybody looked just at a small part of the whole recording. It simply is no task that can be done with distributed computing.

Earlier they thought they could do both parts in parallel, but it turned out they were constantly using their time to fix problems with the BOINC part and they simply don't have the money to hire people to take care of these, so they could concentrate on the second part. But they kept going and trying this for years, it is hardly surprising that they at some point come to the conclusion that it won't work, so they have to stop the BOINC part.

What is meant by diminishing returns can be only understood if you think in terms of probability. The Arecibo telescope has scanned every pixel in the part of the sky it can look at several times already. Sure, it is possible that we may find E.T. if we keep looking, but if we looked at some spot for 10 times already and there was nothing, how likely is it that we look a 11th time and suddenly find something? If E.T. is not already in the signals we found so far, there is only a tiny bit of more prabability it will be in the upcoming signals to gain, but the effort of keeping the project running stays the same.

As sad as it is, it is a totally understandable and inevitable decision. The only thing that could keep it going would be if some billionairs kid is running S@H, so tomorrow Eric gets a call saying that he will get everything he needs, we take over the whole running the infrastructure and fixing issues part, so just go on with the science and stop worrying, just so the billionair can keep his kid happy. But it feels like that is even more unlikely to happen than actually finding ET.
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Message 2036084 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 18:16:59 UTC

While I am somewhat surprised and even a little bit sad about this news, I fully understand the decision given the need to properly analyze all the data we have crunched for all these years.
For the remainder of this month, I will try to prioritise SETI@home over other BOINC projects and even private usage of my devices in order to contribute as much as possible.
Let's hope the backend analysis will lead to some awesome discoveries.
I just want you to know that if the project ever returns from hibernation, I'll be back!
Maybe you should, however, lift the RAC restriction on posting here, perhaps by replacing it with some (low) minimum total credit.
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Message 2036086 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 18:35:08 UTC - in response to Message 2036072.  

wow, I can't believe I actually read through all these posts

most people sound sad, but some react in anger or outright denial (or even culminating in stupid conspiracy theories.)

It is almost as if people mourning a dead person or if they were told by the doctor they are about to die.

And some simply don't understand, asking what we were doing all this time. The explenation about "data" that was "not analyzed" doesn't really help here, because these words are fuzzy. Data isn't the same as data, and you might also describe the crunching we did as "analysis".

Let's put it like this:

What we were doing is finding signals in the raw radio recording (this is like if you record everything that goes into your radio antenna, so you listen to all radio stations at ones and hear only noise). Essentially we were tuning for the radio stations, just a lot more precisely. And we reported every single signal we found. We found a lot.

The problem is: How to tell, if these "signals" are really E.T. or from earth or natural phenomena or just random patterns in random noise that look like signals? This is the next step in the analysis.

We essentially reduced a large mind-boggling heap of recorded noise data, to a neat, but still very large, list of signal data. Our combined computing power did the hardest part of the analysis (hard as in raw number of computations), but the rest of it is still hard.

But the bad part is: The second part of the analysis essentially requires to have the whole set of data. It is a task that can't be split up into small WUs like the search for signals in the raw recording, where everybody looked just at a small part of the whole recording. It simply is no task that can be done with distributed computing.

Earlier they thought they could do both parts in parallel, but it turned out they were constantly using their time to fix problems with the BOINC part and they simply don't have the money to hire people to take care of these, so they could concentrate on the second part. But they kept going and trying this for years, it is hardly surprising that they at some point come to the conclusion that it won't work, so they have to stop the BOINC part.

What is meant by diminishing returns can be only understood if you think in terms of probability. The Arecibo telescope has scanned every pixel in the part of the sky it can look at several times already. Sure, it is possible that we may find E.T. if we keep looking, but if we looked at some spot for 10 times already and there was nothing, how likely is it that we look a 11th time and suddenly find something? If E.T. is not already in the signals we found so far, there is only a tiny bit of more prabability it will be in the upcoming signals to gain, but the effort of keeping the project running stays the same.

As sad as it is, it is a totally understandable and inevitable decision. The only thing that could keep it going would be if some billionairs kid is running S@H, so tomorrow Eric gets a call saying that he will get everything he needs, we take over the whole running the infrastructure and fixing issues part, so just go on with the science and stop worrying, just so the billionair can keep his kid happy. But it feels like that is even more unlikely to happen than actually finding ET.


In light of the poorly written announcement which is more cryptic than anything else...How do you expect people to react? People are naturally curious and without given straight details we tend to imagine what it could possibly be.

Also why cant the processing be done in parallel? Many projects of this nature are done that way.... Perhaps you are right that they had to keep fixing the client, however Seti members are an endless resource of talent and for that matter money. We wouldn't need a "billionaires kid" if they had asked members to contribute via their talents or even with their pocketbooks! If we all gave a little we could easily fund this project and its computation of the processed data for eons.
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Message 2036087 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 18:36:47 UTC

Feel a sense of loss but glad to have been involved. I'll be looking forward to any updates on the analysis of the data.
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Message 2036092 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 19:22:19 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

Twenty-something years ago, a talented team mobilized an international group of volunteers to contribute computer time first to SETI alone (a valuable goal), then to BOINC and an ever-changing set of scientific inquiries (a valuable and selfless goal), and now to yet another effort---"Science United"---in an attempt to still further expand the availability of excess computing capacity to scientists and to create a public outreach about science.

Was it worth it? Yeah. Many times over.

Read the list below, if you want. Perhaps it'll help you decide.

Our team apparently thought so because they stuck with it for so long. Surely they had other options.

Our volunteers apparently thought so. I thought so.

Results? Narrowly, we don't yet know whether we've found ET; analysis remains and I look forward to knowing of the final paper. We searched only a small part of the search space, consistent with the amount of our computing power relative to the need.

On the other hand, we caused some of the search space to get attention when it wouldn't have.

The appeal is multi-national, a valuable antidote to the fractious attitudes between nations on other levels.

We've learned a little more and in a new way about the breadth of scientific discovery.

We have felt more involved in science or searching for an unknown or proving there's something bigger than ourselves out there or tweaking computer platforms or building coalitions of other volunteers or using a readily available data set to test new computer hardware or configurations, or whatever else has spurred each of us to contribute.

Some of us have provided substantial service with their voluntary generosity in helping others.

At the behest of our team, we've branched into other fields and projects, too.

* Design, performance, and operation of distributed computing platforms. Techniques to harness the unused computing capability of sets of computers. Ability to recognize the "embarrassingly parallel" nature of problems best suited to these platforms.

* Some of the motivation for developing the now common-place technique of virtualization and testing it "in the wild" (i.e., the VirtualBox product some of our projects use).

* Astronomy: Discovery of new space objects. Mapping the Milky Way. Building a database of space objects.

* Physics. We provided data to help improve the design of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). We simulated atom-smashing in their collider. Perhaps our data contributed in some way to confirmation of the conjectured Higgs-Boson particle. And gravitational waves.

* Biology: Techniques for understanding protein structures. Drug research. RNA research. Gene design. Cancer and other conditions.

* Computing: Demonstration of some computer protocol vulnerabilities (broke at least one protocol, built rainbow tables to demonstrate password vulnerabilities, and more). Artificial intelligence. Robotics.

* Mathematics: Large prime numbers. Research in mathematical ideas and conjectures (Collatz, Goldbach, Mersenne numbers,
Popovych, and others).

* Earth sciences: Long-range simulations of weather. Seismology.

* Chemistry, including quantum effects.

* Games (Chess and Sodoku, at least), which advanced mathematical theory and computing.

* Cryptocurrencies.

As if that isn't enough, I presume I left out important contributions and failed to recognize important relevance of others. We contributed in ways we didn't understand. We learned a little about all of them.

Yeah. Worth it. Every step. Every day. Every work unit. Every frustration. Every joy. Every paycheck it paid. Yeah.

Kudos to those who set and kept this wave in motion!
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Message 2036097 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 19:45:42 UTC
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 19:46:58 UTC

Thanks for 20 years of Hope and purpose. This account is only 18yrs old but I've been crunching since 99 and this is my first and likely my last post.
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Message 2036100 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 19:59:17 UTC

SETI@home paved the way to BOINC and opened many new research efforts. Then came people with more money and bigger telescopes and SETI@home was ignored. I am a reader of the Berkeley newsletter and never read a line about SETI@home. Similarly, the CERN Courier which I read on line being a physicist, when speaking of future computing needs for LHC and other accelerators never spends a word about LHC@home to which I have taken part since 2008 using also VirtualBox.
Tullio
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Message 2036107 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 20:23:21 UTC

The SETI @ home application has been running at home since 1999 ... I forgot that it could end one day. In any case, thank you for sharing the work. It was a pleasure. You can be proud to have gathered so many users around the world. And with all the exoplanets already discovered and to come, I am convinced that the quest will continue. See you soon!

L'application SETI@home tourne chez moi depuis 1999... J'avais oublié que cela pouvait se terminer un jour. En tout cas merci pour le partage du travail. Ce fut un plaisir. Vous pouvez être fiers d'avoir rassemblé tant d'utilisateur de par le monde. Et avec toutes les exoplanètes déjà découvertes et à venir, je suis persuadé que la quête va continuer. A bientôt donc !
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Message 2036117 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 21:18:43 UTC

I'm particapating with SETI@home since May 2003. I am very sad to hear that SETI@home will go in hibernaton soon.
At the moment I'm developing my own antenne array, so I can continue the search. I use dishes variating from diameter of 1 meter to 3 meters across. Also I will scan from 250MHz up to 16GHz.
Hope SETI@home will return soon.
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Message 2036118 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 21:19:00 UTC

I'm clearly not understanding two items and perhaps someone could give an explanation:

The Seti team just recently announced that they have enough information to begin analyzing the data. So you mean to tell me they were just collecting information but no data has been analyzed yet? Ok, I understand that papers have to be released. I get that. But to say they have enough information at this time? How is that possible?

I was under the impression that a very small percentage of the actual sky has been surveyed and it was almost overwhelming the amount of sky that remained. Then they come out an announce that they have all the data they need. That doesn't add up. Someone explain to me what happened to the rest of the sky that remains to be surveyed.

Just asking.
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Message 2036120 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 21:47:56 UTC
Last modified: 5 Mar 2020, 21:48:54 UTC

March 9, 2006: Started Crunching for SETI@Home.

Monday, the 9th will make 14 years of Crunching... Now everything comes to a close. I'm saddened by the
upcoming end of the Project that kept me interested in computer hardware.

Over the years, I branched out joining Einstein, Chess960, Rosetta, and others as Backup Projects
to SETI@Home. My most recent Backup Project has been Collatz Conjecture. However; SETI@Home
has been HOME to me.

I first learned about SETI@Home from a friend back in 1999. He was on SETI Classic. He was an early
adopter of DSL, which allowed his computers to be Online 24/7. Since, back then, all I had was
Dial-Up, I stayed away until such time as I had a means to get Online 24/7. In 2006, I had Cable Modem
Access, and began my SETI@Home adventures.

I'm proud to have contributed to SETI@Home for as long as I have.

Good Luck to everyone whom has Crunched in their future Project endeavors.

Good Luck to the SETI@Home Staff and Administration Teams.


God Bless,


TimeLord04
TimeLord04
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Come along K-9!
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Message 2036122 - Posted: 5 Mar 2020, 21:57:25 UTC - in response to Message 2036118.  

Two question
First one - The analysis that you are talking about is the collation of the results of our twenty years of screening data. All this data has to collated for stellar location, frequency, signal type to find any signal that is common over a period of time (years, not hours or even days). This couldn't take place until there was enough data from enough stellar locations. The first attempt "ntpker" failed as it was designed to be a real-time analysis, and the computers used just weren't up to the task. Now with access to a much more powerful computer Nebula is being developed, and is starting to show some promise, but there's still work to be done on that, but not for us volunteers.
Second one - Well yes and no. SETI@Home is not designed or implemented to handle all the types of data collected by the Breakthrough Listening Project. So yes - there is lots of data, but SETI@Home cannot actually process much of it for reasons other than resources on the volunteer side of the project.
Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?
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Message boards : News : SETI@home hibernation


 
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