SETI@home hibernation

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Azrael

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Message 2037565 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 17:16:38 UTC - in response to Message 2037494.  

Art Bell got me started in this more then a decade ago now (turn of the century) and it was a HP Pavilion 8276 (300 mhz PII, 48 then 256 mb of ram) that started it all. IT job in 04-05 saw me able to run it on some pc's (and even got it onto some images sent out of the office, but it was touchy and flaky with the cpu utilization so I couldn't do that anymore. heh heh)


My first computer to participate in seti@home was also a 300 MHz Pentium II but from Gateway 2000. I believe it had 160 MB RAM at the time. I think I installed it on my older 486 DX2-66 (also a Gateway 2000 machine) too though. After that it was Duron->multiple Athlon XPs->Athlon 64->Athlon 64x2->Phenom->multiple Phenom IIs->an Athlon FX or 2->Core i7-> a couple of Ryzens... As my main machines anyway. There were also numerous mobile processors starting with a mobile PIII. Then there were lots of other secondary machines along the way... a couple of Pentium IIIs, a couple of original Penium MMXs, some Power PC based Macs (a couple of Intel ones too), a couple of Opterons and probably plenty of others I have forgotten. Then there are the Android based tablets and phones too. And of course the GPUs. I think I started with something like an Nvidia 8600 something or other up to a 1080 today.
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Message 2037566 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 17:18:10 UTC

From the Wikipedia seti@home entry:

"Astronomer Seth Shostak stated in 2004 that he expects to get a conclusive signal and proof of alien contact between 2020 and 2025, based on the Drake equation.[14] This implies that a prolonged effort may benefit SETI@home, despite its (present) twenty-year run without success in ETI detection."

Sounds to me like we need to put off hibernation for at least another 5 years... :)
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Message 2037573 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 17:52:02 UTC - in response to Message 2037566.  
Last modified: 12 Mar 2020, 18:05:12 UTC

I still cling to the faint glimmer of a foolishly optimistic hope (as I have nothing else right now) that should the Nebula run not find anything, that the project will indeed come back to life, hopefully with refreshed long-term goals and funding/staffing requirements to keep it going.

As noted earlier, we haven't even touched a quarter of the sky due to the declination limitations of the two radio telescopes SETI@Home has used so far, as Parkes was never brought online. We have zero possible idea of when we're going to find that signal or signals (multiples still are required to even qualify) so more observations can only improve our chances. And there's no time like the present with computers thousands of times faster than the clunkers we started with twenty years ago to sift all that data.

We're also 10x more sensitive than the real-time BL analysis. Assuming strict inverse-square, that means we could detect a signal from about 3.2x further away, which by volume would be about 33x the number of star systems assuming an even distribution. This is the slower but better "quality vs. quantity" search which I think has a better chance... if, and only if, we keep listening!
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Message 2037587 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 19:18:07 UTC - in response to Message 2037584.  
Last modified: 12 Mar 2020, 19:18:25 UTC

Unfortunately, it's even more complex than that. If you read his blog, he goes into giving criteria on what he would want to look for but not sure of how he would actually write the program (don't get me wrong, I don't have a clue either) but sounds like there are lots of obstacles that need to be overcome before they can ever start to look at the data.
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Message 2037601 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 20:14:10 UTC - in response to Message 2035770.  
Last modified: 12 Mar 2020, 20:15:14 UTC

Say it isn't so

of course

....
We have found definitely something around the 14th-end of December of every year, at least.
If it is Santa Claus or Torchwood or Dr.Who's spaceship we cannot know until the final demo expo of results at home... :D
C-U back
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Message 2037614 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 21:14:28 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

no! so sad
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Message 2037615 - Posted: 12 Mar 2020, 21:22:50 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

I have been very happy to be contributing to SETI@Home for 20 years. Thank you very much.
I look forward to further project.

Jun Imamura
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Message 2037634 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 0:46:13 UTC - in response to Message 2037452.  

Dear Crew, With the advent of the ending of SETI Data crunching my computer ( small and meager as it is ) is now free since 2002, I have been crunching continuously for 18 years. I am seeking suggestions of which one of the many BIONIC projects needs our help the most, or which has the most significance socially or scientifically? Thanks again. Blanchjoe


It is a tough call. I do not believe there is another BOINC project that captures my imagination the way Seti does. It is to bad we can't find another Seti project to join.

Seti@Home represents both Space/Astronomy and Astro/Biology. Or Astronomy and Biology. Boinc has a choice of Astronomy and Biology projects. Some work very nicely as CPU only projects (World Community Grid/Rosetti) others a mix and some are Nvidia only gpu projects.

If you get off on results don't pick a CPU project that runs a month or more per task.

I am pretty sure my cpus are likely to be running some kind of Biology related project. Most likely WCG since it aggregates a number of Biology interests I have as well as helping with African Weather Forecasting for farmers, The GPUs are more problematic. I don't have the really high-end power to do Gpugrid But I can't get into pure math either. I will probably end up in a mix of PrimeGrid (I have a friend who likes it) and Einstein@Home.

E@H has some cpu burners but some of the gpu apps/tasks run in a fairly short span of time.

Tom
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Message 2037661 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 4:39:31 UTC

So... hibernation, but it sounds like when it "comes back" they want to do something different, other than look for ETs... unless I'm misinterpreting.

If the backlog of data needs to be analyzed, then does that need to be done manually? Couldn't that data be distributed again with new parameters, this time with people crunching for whatever they're looking for? I don't understand the results as they are, but it seems like if there is too much data (as to not need more), that they should be thinking of a way to extrapolate and assimilate that data as quickly as possible... Again, unless this all has to be done hands-on by a human, one at a time.

If nothing above is going to be done, then honestly I would see this more as... well... giving up. "We didn't find anything and there's too much data so let's do something else." I hope that's not that case and the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence will continue. I would like to be a part of it, but I'm not going to advocate throwing away resources and time if there's no one to actually make any sense of it. Honestly though, it should have been apparent a long time ago if they weren't going to be able to make use of the all the data that we were generating.
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Message 2037699 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 13:36:43 UTC - in response to Message 2037661.  

When they come back from Hibernation there would be new data to crunch.

They have said No the data can not be worked on in a distributed fashion as no home computer is fast enough or has enough memory to have the whole database in memory all at once, I have 32GB of ddr3 memory and that is not enough.

So a super computer has to work on it, as our PCs are just too small for this task.

No they are not giving up.
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Message 2037722 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 16:23:41 UTC - in response to Message 2037699.  

WHY? the reason you give is not good enough.
ive been here helping for 20 years because this needs to be done
WE havent givin up you did why?
theres more data to be checked theres more to be collected.
AGAIN why are yall chucking all of OUR work.
dont shut us down theres plenty of us that will keeep on working for free even if you the people that took and have taken the money but are not willing to do the work anymore.
this is the best project in human history the active search for life outside our world and now all of a sudden yall are gonna call it off. we just started the search.
UNLESS we found what we are looking for and now yall decide to cover it up?
why dont yall hand it off to people that want to do this insted of the current people running it into the ground and dont want to help anymore.
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Message 2037724 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 16:37:27 UTC - in response to Message 2037722.  
Last modified: 13 Mar 2020, 16:39:51 UTC

As has been detailed, the work we've done over twenty years isn't being "chucked" but will be analyzed, and this is the reason that the "hibernation" is taking place. However I do agree that the shutting down of the project could have been avoided and observations and sending/receiving work continued. If the money wasn't there to enable this, it wasn't asked for.
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Message 2037738 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 18:45:08 UTC

So. Human Music of Earth. Or

Music from Stars.

Human Earth Music has ENORMOUS VALUE aka $$$$$$$$$$$. Be an Owner of a Hit Song or Whole Catalog of Songs and if Not Already Rich, you wil be so. Cause SONGs have VALUE. HUGE VALUE.

Now. How 'bout Music from Stars. You Know, what S@H has been Collecting fO 20+ Years, and Crunchers believing these 'Songs' have value, have SPENT ENORMOUS amounts of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on them. Kinda of a Reverse Richness, so to Speak.

My Question: S@H has a HUGE CATALOG of 'Music' from da 'STARs'. What is WORTH of this 'Music'?

Meaning, if this Star Music had Value, as does Earth Music aka Songs, Who would BUY this 'Music'?

Supposedly S@H 'OWNs' this Star Music. Has S@H ever put this Star Music - UP FOR SALE?????

Certainly if it has 'VALUE' and Everyone has Said FOREVER, a 'Song' Discovered from these Stars would be dA GREATEST EVENT in History - then:

WHERE are the BUYERs????? You tellin' Me NO ONE WANTs this DATA??????

If S@H can't do Analysis, certainly SomeOne with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and ABILITIEs can.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Just Askin' and Wonderin'

Yep

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 2037741 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 18:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 2037738.  

Lately most of our data has been sourced from the Breakthrough Listen initiative. All of its raw data is publicly available and can be downloaded here for anyone to analyze.
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Message 2037743 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 19:07:01 UTC
Last modified: 13 Mar 2020, 19:08:17 UTC

Remember the folks at Berkeley are research scientists and maintaining the infrastructure for this project which has been running for 20 years is huge resource draw. They need the time to do exactly what they said in their post, analyze and publish, and they have tons of data from our contributions to be reviewed by a relatively small team. We should be very proud of our contributions and give them a break. While its a hobby for us, its a career for them and they need to do what they need to do to move the science forward, including analysing and publishing. It also useful to realize Seti@Home is not the only activity Berkeley is doing in this space http://seti.berkeley.edu/FAQ.html

I've been involved with Seti@Home since 2001 and will I miss participating in this activity, absolutely. Do I participate in other grid computing projects such as ClimatePrediction.net and the Large Hadron Collider (LHC@Home), indeed. But SETI is a a visionary activity and we all want to help find ET so I understand the angst.

I do hope they get their analysis done, find interesting things (I'll be watching for papers) and when they are ready come back to the community they've built to contribute with the fun task of signals analysis.

I wish them all well and thank them for the opportunity to contribute these past 19 years to this wonderful project and for creating BOINC, which has allowed an army of citizen scientists globally to contribute much needed resources to many worthwhile scientific projects that would otherwise be hampered by the lack of computing power.
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Message 2037752 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 20:20:51 UTC - in response to Message 2037743.  

Remember the folks at Berkeley are research scientists and maintaining the infrastructure for this project which has been running for 20 years is huge resource draw. They need the time to do exactly what they said in their post, analyze and publish, and they have tons of data from our contributions to be reviewed by a relatively small team. We should be very proud of our contributions and give them a break. While its a hobby for us, its a career for them and they need to do what they need to do to move the science forward, including analysing and publishing. It also useful to realize Seti@Home is not the only activity Berkeley is doing in this space http://seti.berkeley.edu/FAQ.html

I've been involved with Seti@Home since 2001 and will I miss participating in this activity, absolutely. Do I participate in other grid computing projects such as ClimatePrediction.net and the Large Hadron Collider (LHC@Home), indeed. But SETI is a a visionary activity and we all want to help find ET so I understand the angst.

I do hope they get their analysis done, find interesting things (I'll be watching for papers) and when they are ready come back to the community they've built to contribute with the fun task of signals analysis.

I wish them all well and thank them for the opportunity to contribute these past 19 years to this wonderful project and for creating BOINC, which has allowed an army of citizen scientists globally to contribute much needed resources to many worthwhile scientific projects that would otherwise be hampered by the lack of computing power.

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Message 2037777 - Posted: 13 Mar 2020, 23:09:47 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

Thing is that for many of us here this was never a science project, instead this was a two decade journey of faith. My SETI input has lasted longer than two marriages and in a strange way represented my faith in the future. On my worst days I could get up and tell myself 'oh well, at least you are contributing to the biggest headline ever'. Pulling the plug on the received data like yuo just did may make scientific sense, but it has the emotional intelligence of a Honey Badger. When I first started crunching for SETI I had the choice to mine Bitcoin instead. For the first time this week I regretted that decision. Throw us a better bone than this miserable announcement please. I realize that strictly speaking this is not your problem, but right now and after dating us for two decades I feel like you broke up with us using a text message. To conclude, I hate this... and congratulations etc. Go find something.
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Message 2037848 - Posted: 14 Mar 2020, 10:47:01 UTC - in response to Message 2037741.  
Last modified: 14 Mar 2020, 10:50:03 UTC

Lately most of our data has been sourced from the Breakthrough Listen initiative. All of its raw data is publicly available and can be downloaded here for anyone to analyze.


What kind of development effort would we need to be able to do that? Or if we setup a "mini-Seti@Home server(s)" on VM's would we be able to process data on the regular S@H apps?

Tom
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Message 2037851 - Posted: 14 Mar 2020, 11:23:45 UTC - in response to Message 2037848.  

... if we setup a "mini-Seti@Home server(s)" on VM's would we be able to process data on the regular S@H apps?
Yes.

Provided you set up your own radar blankers, splitters, and validators too. Plus a workunit database to keep track of the jobs you've created, and a science database to keep track of what you find.
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Message 2037866 - Posted: 14 Mar 2020, 13:26:39 UTC - in response to Message 2035163.  

This is what I sent to my team, thought I'd share...

To the members of the How Stuff Works SETI team...

I was one of the earliest members to join this team. I saw the explainer about SETI@Home on the original How Stuff Works website back when it was still written by Marshall Brain. I loved the site, I loved the promise of what SETI was doing and Immediately jumped at the opportunity to help. Over the last nearly 2 decades every computer I have ever owned (and several I built for others) has run SETI@Home.

Our group has produced so much good work that we are as a group ranked 620 out of all 64,000 SETI teams worldwide! THE TOP 1%!! An exceptional achievement!

Although the project is going on an indefinite hiatus this does not minimize or undermine the efforts of this team and every other SETI user. The SETI project has more data from our analises than they know what to do with. In fact the reason for the shutdown is actually because we helped them reach their goals not just faster than they expected but faster than they could handle. It is entirely possible that the holy grail of this project may have already been uncovered in the data but is still years away from validation! We may have already found proof of alien life, we just don't know it yet.

As this month closes out and SETI ends a new door opens into exciting new science, research and analysis of everything we have collected. I'm sad to see project this go as many of you are but I'm sure that future opportunities will present themselves to help the SETI project. I also encourage you all to look to other BIONIC projects where you can donate your spare CPU cycles for things like Cancer and Drug research or other astronomy based efforts, there are many great causes out there to contribute to.

Although Mr. Brain has not been active in this group for over a decade I'm sure he would be as surprised and proud of everything that has been accomplished here as I am. Thank you again for your contributions!

With Gratitude, Ariel Williams
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Message boards : News : SETI@home hibernation


 
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