Flight PS752 Tehran-Kyiv

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Message 2027104 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 10:57:04 UTC - in response to Message 2027035.  
Last modified: 10 Jan 2020, 11:00:36 UTC

Both seem to work in Chrome. Late here, and I've had a bad day. I'll watch them in the morning.
I wouldn't bother Richard as it's well off topic. ;-)

Yep definitely a missile, but who fired it is open to plenty of conjecture ATM.

Cheers.
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Message 2027105 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 11:15:03 UTC - in response to Message 2027081.  

U S A SHOT DOWN a KOREAN Airliner and ADMITTED to IT.
Eventually. Read Iran Air Flight 655 - all of it.

Admiral Crowe didn't admit that Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles for three years after the event.

The Aegis System software [on Vincennes] ... [was] rated as one of the worst user interface disasters.

Vincennes at that time had no equipment suitable for monitoring civil aviation frequencies ... Subsequently U.S. Navy warships in the area were equipped with dialable VHF radios ...
And so on. Not just groupthink on the day, but planning and design errors dating back years.

This is going to take years to clear up, and I think it's fair to allow Iran a little time to lick its wounds - both literally and figuratively.
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Message 2027109 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 11:33:25 UTC

Yes, well, the U.S. under v2.0 and his deal breaking ways plus totally unwarranted economic sactions have certainly have already stirred up a lot of the world let alone that hornets nest and there are now mounting calls for our P.M. to pull our guys and girls out of there ASAP.

We didn't sign up just to wind up to being an aggressor.
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Message 2027111 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 11:49:27 UTC - in response to Message 2027109.  

The USA is undoubtedly the most powerful nation on earth, but v2.0 (and some posters here) confuse power with greatness. Unfortunately, the USA left the moral high ground some years ago.

Power without responsibility used to be called the prerogative of the ... - oh, go and look it up for yourselves.
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Message 2027124 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 14:03:03 UTC - in response to Message 2027122.  
Last modified: 10 Jan 2020, 14:38:14 UTC

Exactly. The phrase I was alluding to was coined by the British author and poet Rudyard Kipling, who had a very deep understanding of the British Empire, especially in its Indian form. He - as an early newspaper reporter - was one of the very few who tried to see and understand the Empire from the points of view of both the rulers - and the ruled.

I will not even try to excuse the behaviour of the British in those days, nor that of the other countries you've mentioned. But take the beam out of your own eye, before trying to remove the motes from others'. We should be learning from our histories, and both the USA and (sadly) Britain seem to be regressing, rather than progressing.

(typo edited in red)
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Message 2027135 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 14:41:16 UTC - in response to Message 2027122.  


Waiting to see Western Europe and other's using their immense wealth to build an International Force, both military and economic, to confront these evils. Without, of course, the participation of the massive international military force the "immoral" USA possesses.
Not needed with the "BIG BAD BOY" about, so "Duke" just "nuke'em"
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Message 2027136 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 14:42:26 UTC - in response to Message 2027105.  

U S A SHOT DOWN a KOREAN Airliner and ADMITTED to IT.
Eventually. Read Iran Air Flight 655 - all of it.

Admiral Crowe didn't admit that Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles for three years after the event.

The Aegis System software [on Vincennes] ... [was] rated as one of the worst user interface disasters.

Vincennes at that time had no equipment suitable for monitoring civil aviation frequencies ... Subsequently U.S. Navy warships in the area were equipped with dialable VHF radios ...
And so on. Not just groupthink on the day, but planning and design errors dating back years.

This is going to take years to clear up, and I think it's fair to allow Iran a little time to lick its wounds - both literally and figuratively.

One might think after the Vincennes their military might have determined not to do the same thing. You might also expect their ATC would be plugged into their Military so the plane would have had a ground hold or a no fire box put around the flight plan route. Killing machines are killing machines.
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Message 2027144 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 15:40:36 UTC - in response to Message 2027138.  
Last modified: 10 Jan 2020, 15:52:20 UTC

Stop acting as adolescents living and being protected under Daddy's roof.
What Western European country need protection from "Daddy" to meet Iran aggression? Have I missed something? Iran don't have any aggression against our Nordic countries. As far I know it's the US that is very main target of Iran's aggression and calling it Satan. Maybe the UK as well as they are very allied with the US but what other country?
Anyway. It seems like the Iranian air defense are very trigger happy and doesn't discriminate targets.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2020/01/09/video-apparently-showing-flight-ps572-missile-strike-geolocated-to-iranian-suburb/
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Message 2027146 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 15:55:54 UTC - in response to Message 2027127.  

But a year ago the Iranians were the "Good Guys" helping in the battle against ISIS/Daesh. In fact without them Trump couldn't have declared victory. Which now would seem to be a false claim, who's he going to get now to assist in the fight and transport of arms and supplies to the Shia fighters.
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Message 2027147 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 16:01:46 UTC - in response to Message 2027138.  

The point about appeasement is well taken, but make sure you are defining the term accurately.

Winston Churchill - not unknown as a successful wartime leader - said 'Meeting jaw to jaw is better than war'.

War should be the last resort, not the first.
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Message 2027153 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 16:55:52 UTC - in response to Message 2027138.  

As I previously posted. Stop acting as adolescents living and being protected under Daddy's roof.
Without, of course, the participation of the massive international military force the "immoral" USA possesses.
You have never been an international force. Your forces are there for one reason & one reason only - To protect your national security & national/International economic interests. Any thing else mentioned is just plain bovine excrement.

Since Vietnam, all your major conflicts, you have "persuaded" allies for help. The way your "potus" is going, you soon won't have any left, so good luck fighting your conflicts.
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Message 2027164 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 17:46:24 UTC

NO ONE WATCHED dA VID?

Of the AIRCRAFT RECOGNITION SYSTEM?

SAD and PITIFUL

NO MISSLE In 2020 Should HIT a PLANE.

UNLESS ON PURPOSE

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 2027171 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 18:22:56 UTC - in response to Message 2027147.  

The point about appeasement is well taken, but make sure you are defining the term accurately.

Winston Churchill - not unknown as a successful wartime leader - said 'Meeting jaw to jaw is better than war'.

War should be the last resort, not the first.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/appease
Appease definition is - pacify, conciliate; especially : to make concessions to (someone, such as an aggressor or a critic) often at the sacrifice of principles.


It would seem one poster has been calling other posters appeasers and has done so before. If I am correct, that person should then explain how individuals posting at this site have made concessions or sacrificed our principles.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 2027176 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 18:48:44 UTC - in response to Message 2027164.  

NO MISSLE In 2020 Should HIT a PLANE.
UNLESS ON PURPOSE
Missiles in 2020 do hit planes and for the purpose of down them and will do it in the future.
Missile systems have recognition systems but it also require that the operators, autonomic or manual, make correct decisions before launching. In the cases of PS752 and MH17 the missile operators f***d up!
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Message 2027186 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 19:31:12 UTC - in response to Message 2027164.  

IFF Identification Friend or Foe only works some of the time. Worse it really should be called IFO Identification Friend or Other. But we know Soviet radars don't show Civilian targets as such. How many times has a Soviet missile hit a civil airliner? Perhaps the control systems are in desperate need of a software/hardware upgrade? Maybe they need to be linkable to the Civilian ATC system so those targets can paint as non-threat? Wonder how the Chinese systems are, after all they are likely stolen Soviet designs.
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Message 2027209 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 21:14:40 UTC - in response to Message 2027186.  

Wonder how the Chinese systems are, after all they are likely stolen Soviet designs.
And the Soviet designs were likely stolen British/American designs. I hope they didn't steal them from Boeing, or we're all doomed ! :-)
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Message 2027220 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 22:22:14 UTC - in response to Message 2027209.  

Wonder how the Chinese systems are, after all they are likely stolen Soviet designs.
And the Soviet designs were likely stolen British/American designs. I hope they didn't steal them from Boeing, or we're all doomed ! :-)
The missiles, yes, the radar not so much. But in any case they are likely half a century or more old thus why they can't tell a civilian craft from a military one.
As to Boeing at that time they hadn't yet gone on a binge buying defense companies so we are likely safe from that bug.
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Message 2027224 - Posted: 10 Jan 2020, 22:45:20 UTC

Most parts of the Ukrainian aircraft that crashed in Iran have been moved. Remains of clothing, shoes and burnt seats are left. It tells the Swedish Expressen's foreign reporter Kassem Hamade who is in Iran and has spoken to witnesses who were there when the plane crashed.
- Some at first thought it was an earthquake, others thought it was an American attack and that the war had begun, he says.
- Witnesses at the scene do not believe the plane was shot down, but they believe the plane exploded in the air and crashed.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/expressens-reporter-i-teheran-vittnen-tror-planet-exploderade-i-luften
That the plane for some reason exploded without any missiles hitting it in the air seems implausible.
Then some says it was two missiles...
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Message 2027263 - Posted: 11 Jan 2020, 5:00:48 UTC

Yep. ADMITTED.

ON PURPOSE

IF They Killed Americans with Their Missiles, REGIME would be Enveloped in FIRE and SMOKE days Later,still. IRANIANs would be CHEERING and dA PEOPLE would be TAKING BACK their Country.

Instead, They KILL INNOCENTs, BLAMING Our PREZ for DEATHs. Along with OTHERs Throughout World.

ALL PART of Their SICK PLAN.

NOW, they STILL RULE: PROMOTE TERROR; DO TERRORISM; and CONTINUE Their HORRORs UPON Their People and OTHERs throughout WORLD.

What a COUNTRY.

RUBEWORDs of RUBEWORLD as USUAL

ORANGe YAPe


May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 2027273 - Posted: 11 Jan 2020, 9:00:25 UTC

It would appear that Iran have admitted unintentionally shooting down Flight PS752.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

It's taken them a few days to do so, but if this report is accurate then it does end some of the speculation.
Bob Smith
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