Too early to speculate but one can't help but wonder.

Aviation safety analyst Todd Curtis told the BBC that the Boeing aircraft involved in the crash had been delivered new to the airline.

If you are talking about today's Ukraine International crash - it was a B737 8KV which was an "NG" aircraft, new in 2016. Total loss, reportedly following engine failure with some reports of a fire on/shortly after take-off :-(
Looking at the FlightRadar 24 track record it would appear that it hit some high ground on the edge of town/village a few miles after take-off.....

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Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Is that the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 that crashed after takeoff from Tehran overnight?

The BBC quoted a press statement that said it had caught fire on impact with the ground, but immediately followed it with a video of something catching fire whilst airborne.

So it is indeed too early to speculate, but this one is going to be examined - I trust - in minute detail.

BBC: Iran plane crash

Flight data from the Ukrainian Airlines Boeing 737-800 is openly available online. It shows that the plane climbed normally after taking-off from Tehran.

It reached nearly 8,000ft (2,400m) before the aircraft's data suddenly disappears.

This is unusual and would suggest some type of catastrophic incident on board the plane. We have no evidence at this stage to tell us what caused the incident.

Is that the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 that crashed after takeoff from Tehran overnight?

The BBC quoted a press statement that said it had caught fire on impact with the ground, but immediately followed it with a video of something catching fire whilst airborne.

So it is indeed too early to speculate, but this one is going to be examined - I trust - in minute detail.

BBC: Iran plane crash

Flight data from the Ukrainian Airlines Boeing 737-800 is openly available online. It shows that the plane climbed normally after taking-off from Tehran.

It reached nearly 8,000ft (2,400m) before the aircraft's data suddenly disappears.

This is unusual and would suggest some type of catastrophic incident on board the plane. We have no evidence at this stage to tell us what caused the incident.

That is one big sad 'oh no, oh dear'...

The debris field and the ground impacts seen suggests the plane was fragmented in mid-air and the parts showered down near vertically from high up. There's also multiple small puncture marks seen in some of the fuselage fragments suggesting an explosion that included shrapnel...

My first guess is a surface to air missile...

Also note that Iran would be on war alert after their missiles attack on the US/Iraqi bases shortly before...


All very silly sad.

All in our only one world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Is that the Ukrainian Boeing 737-800 that crashed after takeoff from Tehran overnight?

The BBC quoted a press statement that said it had caught fire on impact with the ground, but immediately followed it with a video of something catching fire whilst airborne.

So it is indeed too early to speculate, but this one is going to be examined - I trust - in minute detail.

BBC: Iran plane crash

Flight data from the Ukrainian Airlines Boeing 737-800 is openly available online. It shows that the plane climbed normally after taking-off from Tehran.

It reached nearly 8,000ft (2,400m) before the aircraft's data suddenly disappears.

This is unusual and would suggest some type of catastrophic incident on board the plane. We have no evidence at this stage to tell us what caused the incident.

That is one big sad 'oh no, oh dear'...

The debris field and the ground impacts seen suggests the plane was fragmented in mid-air and the parts showered down near vertically from high up. There's also multiple small puncture marks seen in some of the fuselage fragments suggesting an explosion that included shrapnel...

My first guess is a surface to air missile...

Also note that Iran would be on war alert after their missiles attack on the US/Iraqi bases shortly before...


All very silly sad.

Iranian media blamed technical problems and quoted an aviation official who said no emergency had been declared.

the head of Iran's civil aviation organisation was quoted as saying the Ukrainian plane's "black boxes" - the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder - had been found but would not be handed over, either to Boeing or the Americans.

Ali Abedzadeh said "terrorism" had played no role in the crash, Iran's conservative Mehr news agency reported. He added that at this stage it was unclear who would analyse the black boxes.

Put together it does sound like they already know the cause and it is "embarrassing."

There is zero excuse for shooting at an airplane leaving your own airport on a flight plan. Someone needs a public beheading, if this is indeed what happened.

Ukraine International Airlines (UIA) has published a list of 167 passengers who were on board the Boeing-737 flight PS752 Tehran-Kyiv that crashed early on Wednesday shortly after takeoff. UIA publishes full passenger list for flight PS752 crashed in Iran.
https://www.unian.info/society/10822121-uia-publishes-full-passenger-list-for-flight-ps752-crashed-in-iran.html
Among the victims were 82 Iranians, 63 Canadians, 11 Ukrainians including all nine crew, 10 Swedes, four Afghans, three Britons and three Germans, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko said. Fifteen of the dead were children. All but 4 passengers, one women from Ukraine and three from Sweden, two kids with a Swedish father but with an Iranian mother , are from Iran but many of them are now also citizens of other countries.

Why would Iran shoot down a plane or something with mostly people from Iran? And doing that only three minutes after take off from Tehran's Imam Khomeini airport…

I'm certainly smelling a very big rat. I mentioned the BBC playing the video of something catching fire while airborne. They never replayed that video, all day - unusual for the BBC News channel, which thrives on repeats. But I think they replayed it on the flagship 10 o'clock bulletin (I walked back in late, just as it was finishing). That would be a significant display of confidence.

Edit - reviewed the Ten on catchup. It was the same video I saw this morning: the object is described as being on fire while airborne: then there's a mid-air flash, and then there's a very big ground impact flash (not directly visible from the camera position, but reflected from the cloud cover).

The BBC are being very careful to say that it is not confirmed as being the flight in question, and there is no time/datestamp visible on screen. But they're repeating it in the normal rotation now.

A good summary of the story so far is given on:

Radio silence and a desperate turn: The final moments of Flight PS752

What we know so far about Boeing plane that crashed in Iran


I suspect that the "desperate turn" is some misinformation or a very bad journalistic pun. Note that the plane debris came down very near to the last reported position... The fragments fell near vertically from a plane that was flying at about 500km/h....


There is already the wikipedia updates on:

Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752



All in our only one world,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Edit - reviewed the Ten on catchup. It was the same video I saw this morning: the object is described as being on fire while airborne: then there's a mid-air flash, and then there's a very big ground impact flash (not directly visible from the camera position, but reflected from the cloud cover).

Thinking what we might be looking at is the missile engine burning and the mid-air flash is it exploding when it hit its target. Of course it could be all fake.

The BBC reports that Iran has refused to allow the US and Boeing access to the Black Boxes.

The BBC reports that Iran has refused to allow the US and Boeing access to the Black Boxes.

After reading Richard's post & then yours, I think the BBC has also removed a video from a report.
Pretty certain several hours ago on checking the BBC website, the 1st video was the one now showing on the black box refusal report. However on that earlier report there was a 2nd video from the Ukraine (can't recall whether it was the head of the airline or a tech from the airline), stating that the aircraft was only 3 year's old & serviced a couple of days ago, also mentioned that they had the black boxes.

The BBC reports that Iran has refused to allow the US and Boeing access to the Black Boxes.

After reading Richard's post & then yours, I think the BBC has also removed a video from a report.
Pretty certain several hours ago on checking the BBC website, the 1st video was the one now showing on the black box refusal report. However on that earlier report there was a 2nd video from the Ukraine (can't recall whether it was the head of the airline or a tech from the airline), stating that the aircraft was only 3 year's old & serviced a couple of days ago, also mentioned that they had the black boxes.

I forgot to give the link, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51042326.

Yes, read that & the video is the same, BUT it was not the report I saw mid evening.

Video on twitter, https://twitter.com/isna_farsi/status/1214756225293979648

Sorry Nick already seen that one. No, on the report I saw on the website, it had 2 videos with the report. The 1st is the one on your black box post & link, the 2nd was of the Airline head/Tech talking about the aircraft. If I recall, it was about 3 min long.

SUPERTRUMP DID NOT RESPOND to FAKE MISSLE STRIKE. He was Supposed to GO ALL HITLER on 'em.

HE Didn't

and IRAN NEEDED DEATH and DESTRUCTION of CIVILIANs in IRAN to SHOW HITLERs 'RESPONSE'.

SUPERTRUMP aka as dA GENIUS, became MASTER of dA 'GAME' and 'BLEW' AWAY Their FAKE GAME.

WINNING as USUAL

ORANGE GREATNESS

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Sorry Nick already seen that one. No, on the report I saw on the website, it had 2 videos with the report. The 1st is the one on your black box post & link, the 2nd was of the Airline head/Tech talking about the aircraft. If I recall, it was about 3 min long.

The Ukrainian video was recorded on Wednesday morning and repeated on the BBC several times during the day, sometimes with additional information as it became available - such as passenger nationalities. The Ukrainian story has been consistent so far - the plane was delivered new in 2016, was last given routine maintenance on Monday 6 January, has completed several flights since then, has no reported maintenance issues outstanding.

Reports out of Tehran have been variable. An early report, later removed, suggested engine failure as a cause. This morning, there's a new BBC report: Iran plane crash: Airliner 'was trying to return to airport'

Iran's Civil Aviation Organisation (CAOI) chief Ali Abedzadeh said: "The plane, which was initially headed west to leave the airport zone, turned right following a problem and was headed back to the airport at the moment of the crash."

flightradar24 contradicts that. The raw data -

Timestamp	UTC			CallsignPosition		AltitudeSpeed	Direction
1578451314	2020-01-08T02:41:54Z	AUI752	35.414623,51.160755	0	74	286
1578451354	2020-01-08T02:42:34Z	AUI752	35.423355,51.12957	3425	177	289
1578451360	2020-01-08T02:42:40Z	AUI752	35.424809,51.12447	3575	183	289
1578451367	2020-01-08T02:42:47Z	AUI752	35.426834,51.117382	3750	190	289
1578451373	2020-01-08T02:42:53Z	AUI752	35.428528,51.111431	3925	196	289
1578451384	2020-01-08T02:43:04Z	AUI752	35.432259,51.098347	4375	199	288
1578451391	2020-01-08T02:43:11Z	AUI752	35.434353,51.090984	4500	207	289
1578451397	2020-01-08T02:43:17Z	AUI752	35.43626,51.084263	4575	216	289
1578451404	2020-01-08T02:43:24Z	AUI752	35.43837,51.076927	4675	223	289
1578451416	2020-01-08T02:43:36Z	AUI752	35.442764,51.061535	4875	238	289
1578451428	2020-01-08T02:43:48Z	AUI752	35.447342,51.045856	5125	251	289
1578451440	2020-01-08T02:44:00Z	AUI752	35.452324,51.028866	5500	261	289
1578451453	2020-01-08T02:44:13Z	AUI752	35.45755,51.010895	5800	273	289
1578451464	2020-01-08T02:44:24Z	AUI752	35.463409,50.993614	6325	274	297
1578451473	2020-01-08T02:44:33Z	AUI752	35.469635,50.981598	6800	274	305
1578451480	2020-01-08T02:44:40Z	AUI752	35.474533,50.974045	7075	275	309
1578451486	2020-01-08T02:44:46Z	AUI752	35.480072,50.966663	7350	276	313
1578451492	2020-01-08T02:44:52Z	AUI752	35.485428,50.959682	7650	276	313
1578451498	2020-01-08T02:44:58Z	AUI752	35.490463,50.952988	7925	275	312

shows a course adjustment from 289 degrees at takeoff to 313/312 (towards Kyiv). I don't buy that as 'returning to airport': somebody's lying, and if flightradar24 has been hacked, we're all in trouble.

That's interesting data which alongside the height profile of the flight,
, which if there was a engine problem should have shown a decrease in the rate of climb.

And if you go to flightradar24 twitter page, there are some photos, which must be viewed with skepticism, that it is claimed show shrapnel damage and part of an anti-aircraft missile. https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1214755618508230657.

Wow, you earned another OH

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From https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukraine-flight-was-on-fire-in-air-and-returning-to-tehran-at-time-of-crash-iran-investigators-say/2020/01/09/9b27434c-3244-11ea-971b-43bec3ff9860_story.html there is a link to https://twitter.com/iribnewsFa/status/1215250621319864320. This security cam video shows the area lighting up a second or so before the flare caused by the aircraft's impact.

Also,

A Ukrainian plane with 45 experts and search-and-rescue personnel arrived in Tehran early Thursday to participate in the investigation, as well as to identify and repatriate the bodies of the 11 Ukrainians on board, including all nine crew members.

Oleksiy Danylov, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council, wrote on Facebook that his team wants to search for possible debris of a Russian missile, the Tor air defense missile, after seeing online reports about the discovery of possible fragments of one near the crash site.

edit]
A similar account is in https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/world/middleeast/iran-plane-crash-ukraine.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

KYIV, Ukraine — Investigators will look into the possibility that a missile shot down the Ukrainian passenger jet that crashed in Iran, a senior Ukrainian official said on Thursday, but he did not rule out a range of other possibilities for the disaster that killed at least 176 people.

The official, Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, said that investigators were following up on unconfirmed reports that fragments of a Russian-made Tor surface-to-air missile — a system used by Iran — had been found near where the plane came down.

Ukraine was negotiating with Iran to allow the investigators to search the crash site near Tehran for possible rocket fragments, he told Censor.net, a Ukrainian news outlet.