The Donald Trump Thread (IV)

Message boards : Politics : The Donald Trump Thread (IV)
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 80 · 81 · 82 · 83 · 84 · 85 · 86 . . . 90 · Next

AuthorMessage
Scrooge McDuck
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Nov 99
Posts: 1731
Credit: 1,674,173
RAC: 54
Germany
Message 2051150 - Posted: 5 Jun 2020, 23:54:32 UTC

I stumbled across an article. It is rather a short book:
"History Will Judge the Complicit - Why have Republican leaders abandoned their principles in support of an immoral and dangerous president?" by Anne Applebaum
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/

It's about free society, its gradual transformation into an authoritarian one. What does it take, in what steps does it take place? What does it do to the citizen? Propaganda and reality - truth and lies. It's about the complicity of well-meaning people, their motives and constraints, which make authoritarian societies possible in the first place. Communist authoritarian governments in East Germany, Eastern Europe are discussed, as well as Nazi-collaborating wartime Vichy France. And finally, it compares these findings to the three years of the Trump administration's impact on political parties, MPs, senators, and citizens.

As an East German who grew up in school with socialist propaganda (I only understood that later) until the age of 12, I am very impressed by this in-depth historical and sociological analysis.

It takes a lot of time, but the article is worth reading.
ID: 2051150 · Report as offensive
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 5375
Credit: 30,870,693
RAC: 1
United States
Message 2051152 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:24:52 UTC

Since Hollywood is such a fountain of deep insight by heavy intellectuals all should probably agree with this..........
David Lynch: Trump will go down history for destroying the new world order
Despite being undecided about Trump, Lynch noted that “He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history because he has disrupted the thing so much. No one is able to counter this guy in an intelligent way.”

The “Eraserhead” and “Mulholland Drive” director also described how, while Trump may not be doing a good job himself, he is opening up a space where other outsiders might. “Our so-called leaders can’t take the country forward, can’t get anything done,” he said. “Like children, they are. Trump has shown all this.”

https://variety.com/2018/politics/news/david-lynch-donald-trump-greatest-presidents-1202857615/

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 2051152 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 21746
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2051154 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:35:25 UTC - in response to Message 2051152.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 0:37:08 UTC

... Trump will go down [in] history for destroying the new world order

"... No one is able to counter this guy in an intelligent way.”...

Sadly, deadly, all too true.


To misquote another film quote:

Ya cannae argue wi summat that can't argue (or with the laws of physics)...




All only in the USA?

Stay safe!
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2051154 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24930
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 2051155 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:36:36 UTC - in response to Message 2051153.  

But we do thank Europe, and their history, for teaching us what not to do.
Your fixation on anything non-American is blatant. It took Europe 2000 years to get where they are today, yet it has only taken you a tenth of that time - That's nothing to be proud of.
ID: 2051155 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 21746
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 2051156 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:38:15 UTC - in response to Message 2051155.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 0:49:02 UTC

But we do thank Europe, and their history, for teaching us what not to do.
... It took Europe 2000 years to get where they are today, yet it has only taken you a tenth of that time - That's nothing to be proud of.

There's just got to be a Monty Python quote in there for that!...


Stay safe!
Martin
See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 2051156 · Report as offensive
Profile betreger Project Donor
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 Jun 99
Posts: 11451
Credit: 29,581,041
RAC: 66
United States
Message 2051157 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:41:32 UTC - in response to Message 2051153.  

I stumbled across an article. It is rather a short book:
"History Will Judge the Complicit - Why have Republican leaders abandoned their principles in support of an immoral and dangerous president?" by Anne Applebaum
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/07/trumps-collaborators/612250/

It's about free society, its gradual transformation into an authoritarian one. What does it take, in what steps does it take place? What does it do to the citizen? Propaganda and reality - truth and lies. It's about the complicity of well-meaning people, their motives and constraints, which make authoritarian societies possible in the first place. Communist authoritarian governments in East Germany, Eastern Europe are discussed, as well as Nazi-collaborating wartime Vichy France. And finally, it compares these findings to the three years of the Trump administration's impact on political parties, MPs, senators, and citizens.

As an East German who grew up in school with socialist propaganda (I only understood that later) until the age of 12, I am very impressed by this in-depth historical and sociological analysis.

It takes a lot of time, but the article is worth reading.

Fortunately for Americans.

Most of us don't follow the beliefs of many in Europe of a Centralized Government of imperfect humans and some will be evil controlling everything.

Our understanding that all power will be corrupted. Means we have, in our Union of States. Internally separated government control among 50 semi-independent States and a Federal Government. A Federal Government that we separated into 4 independent parts. The Presidency, the House, the Senate and the Supreme Court.

But we do thank Europe, and their history, for teaching us what not to do.


That's working like a champ with the pandemic, 110,000 dead and rising, With a little help from the orange one 200, 000 is within reach by year's end.
ID: 2051157 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051159 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:46:56 UTC - in response to Message 2051152.  

Well if you have read the article.
Lynch also shared in the interview that he is politically all over the map, having voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary and thinks — but is unsure — that he voted Libertarian in the presidential election. “I am not really a political person, but I really like the freedom to do what you want to do,” he said.
Yes. Do what you want to do. Who cares.
ID: 2051159 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 38189
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2051161 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 0:55:40 UTC - in response to Message 2051158.  

But we do thank Europe, and their history, for teaching us what not to do.
Your fixation on anything non-American is blatant. It took Europe 2000 years to get where they are today, yet it has only taken you a tenth of that time - That's nothing to be proud of.
Europe still believes that Power will always be controlled non evil people. Or that Government's, for some inexplicable reason, knows what is best.

Their non understanding that all power must be divided and our understanding of the evil's of government power. Is what has stopped the mass murdering and enslaving evils that permeated Europe within the lifetimes of many still alive from happening within the USA over the same lifetimes.
And Trump is currently setting your country up to do just that now.
ID: 2051161 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051163 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:12:15 UTC - in response to Message 2051158.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 1:20:48 UTC

[quote]Europe still believes that Power will always be controlled non evil people. Or that Government's, for some inexplicable reason, knows what is best.
Their non understanding that all power must be divided and our understanding of the evil's of government power. Is what has stopped the mass murdering and enslaving evils that permeated Europe within the lifetimes of many still alive from happening within the USA.
Sigh! The USA is a country but EUROPE IS NOT A COUNTRY. Has not been and will never be. There are 50 sovereign states, 6 of them with limited recognition in Europe.
Most common language is Russian, German and French in that order.
Largest cities are Istanbul, Moscow and Paris in that order.
Every country in Europe have different cultures and views of politics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
Is this so hard to understand?
ID: 2051163 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 31350
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 2051164 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:18:37 UTC

Dante wrote:
The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crisis maintain their neutrality.
ID: 2051164 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24930
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 2051166 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:31:52 UTC - in response to Message 2051165.  

I should have been more specific and just mentioned the criminal empires of the UK, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and other country's invading continents and oppressing, murdering and other crimes against people around the world.

Then adding Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Fascist Italy... Not too many left.
Why d you always leave out the USA in your list? How many countries have you screwed over in the last 75 years? After all, they disguised their criminal empire under the guise of "National Security & Economic Interests"
ID: 2051166 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051167 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:31:55 UTC - in response to Message 2051165.  

You forgot to mention the Swedish empire:)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire
ID: 2051167 · Report as offensive
Profile Mr. Kevvy Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 15 May 99
Posts: 3859
Credit: 1,114,826,392
RAC: 3,319
Canada
Message 2051168 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 1:38:00 UTC - in response to Message 2051162.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 1:43:35 UTC

And a military who primary allegiance is to our Constitution and following the order's of a President are secondary to our Constitution when taking the oath. With all orders by their superiors must be legal and constitutional.


As per the Constitution, Article I, Section 8, only Congress has the power to declare war.

Under Harry Truman, the only action by Congress in the Korean War was a $12 billion appropriation. War was not declared. This is the first war where the oft-parodied "police action" was used (by Truman) to describe it, and is the least ambiguous of the bunch as it lasted three years, thus was an unconstitutional war, so everyone who fought in it was given and followed unconstitutional orders from the highest level.

Under Bill Clinton, Operation Uphold Democracy invaded Haiti in 1994. Congress was not involved.

Nor was Congress involved (in fact, declined to be involved) in U.S. military action in Bosnia also under Bill Clinton.

Barack Obama's military strikes against Libya in 2001, described by Defense Secretary Robert Gates as an unambiguous act of war, also did not involve congressional approval.

There are plenty more I am sure.
ID: 2051168 · Report as offensive
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 5375
Credit: 30,870,693
RAC: 1
United States
Message 2051171 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:02:43 UTC - in response to Message 2051168.  

And a military who primary allegiance is to our Constitution and following the order's of a President are secondary to our Constitution when taking the oath. With all orders by their superiors must be legal and constitutional.


As per the Constitution, Article I, Section 8, only Congress has the power to declare war.

Under Harry Truman, the only action by Congress in the Korean War was a $12 billion appropriation. War was not declared. This is the first war where the oft-parodied "police action" was used (by Truman) to describe it, and is the least ambiguous of the bunch as it lasted three years, thus was an unconstitutional war, so everyone who fought in it was given and followed unconstitutional orders from the highest level.

Under Bill Clinton, Operation Uphold Democracy invaded Haiti in 1994. Congress was not involved.

Nor was Congress involved (in fact, declined to be involved) in U.S. military action in Bosnia also under Bill Clinton.

Barack Obama's military strikes against Libya in 2001, described by Defense Secretary Robert Gates as an unambiguous act of war, also did not involve congressional approval.

There are plenty more I am sure.

The Congress abdicated it's authority AND responsibility to declare war when they made that appropriation in 1950. And they have failed to take responsibility for ANY of their actions in the 70 years since. They tried to partially correct the practice in 1973 with the 'War Powers Resolution' but that has been largely ignored or 'worked around'. One of the 'work arounds' is forming a coalition with many other nations when embarking on military action which is what happened with Gulf Wars I and II not to mention Afghanistan.

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 2051171 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051172 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:14:02 UTC - in response to Message 2051171.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 2:20:22 UTC

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.
So you still think the European countries have the same mindset today as in 1620? Zoot allures. Hehe:)
ID: 2051172 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24930
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 2051173 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:18:18 UTC - in response to Message 2051172.  

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.
So you still think the European countries have the same mindset today as in 1620? Hehe:)
LOL, but the USA still rely on an outdated piece of paper.
ID: 2051173 · Report as offensive
Profile JaundicedEye
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Mar 12
Posts: 5375
Credit: 30,870,693
RAC: 1
United States
Message 2051175 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:40:25 UTC - in response to Message 2051173.  

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.
So you still think the European countries have the same mindset today as in 1620? Hehe:)
LOL, but the USA still rely on an outdated piece of paper.

Magna Carta ring a bell?

"Sour Grapes make a bitter Whine." <(0)>
ID: 2051175 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051176 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 2:57:48 UTC - in response to Message 2051175.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2020, 3:15:18 UTC

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.
So you still think the European countries have the same mindset today as in 1620? Hehe:)
LOL, but the USA still rely on an outdated piece of paper.

Magna Carta ring a bell?
No. I hear no bells. Magna Carta was written in 1215. The Great Reform Bill in 1832 and the Parliament Act was written in 1911. Meaning that the British constitution has been revised over the years. However the British constitution is still based on an unwritten constitution, which means that it is not codified in a uniform document.
ID: 2051176 · Report as offensive
Profile Wiggo
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Jan 00
Posts: 38189
Credit: 261,360,520
RAC: 489
Australia
Message 2051177 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 3:15:49 UTC - in response to Message 2051176.  

As far as the allure and influence of Europe on American thought, my feelings are my ancestors left Europe in 1620 for very good reason and I see no good reason not to follow their example by maintaining separation, physically and philosophically.
So you still think the European countries have the same mindset today as in 1620? Hehe:)
LOL, but the USA still rely on an outdated piece of paper.
Magna Carta ring a bell?
No. I hear no bells. Magna Carta was written in 1215. The Great Reform Bill in 1832 and the Parliament Act was written in 1911. Meaning that the British constitution has been revised over the years.
Yes a lot of other countries amend or change their constitutions to keep up with the times and remove totally outdated sections that are irrelevant in these modern days.
ID: 2051177 · Report as offensive
moomin
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 17
Posts: 6204
Credit: 38,420
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 2051179 - Posted: 6 Jun 2020, 3:21:31 UTC - in response to Message 2051177.  

Yes a lot of other countries amend or change their constitutions to keep up with the times and remove totally outdated sections that are irrelevant in these modern days.
The US Second Amendment comes to mind. Till this day nobody understand what it really means:)
ID: 2051179 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 80 · 81 · 82 · 83 · 84 · 85 · 86 . . . 90 · Next

Message boards : Politics : The Donald Trump Thread (IV)


 
©2025 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.