The Train Thread 3

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Message 2121335 - Posted: 22 Jun 2023, 19:36:12 UTC

Norfolk Southern engineer raised concern about train ahead of derailment.

A Norfolk Southern engineer expressed concerns to a supervisor about the length of the train that would later derail in East Palestine, Ohio, but the reservations went unaddressed, according to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

The NTSB report released Thursday said the engineer, from Decatur, Ill., expressed the concerns to the yardmaster but was told “well, this is what they [Norfolk Southern] want.”

The engineer reportedly told investigators that “if you talk to the manager, they said this train was 100 percent rule compliant,” adding “To me, in my opinion, you got 32 percent of the weight on the headend.”

“Twenty percent in the middle and 40 percent weight on the rearend,” they continued. “So, to me, that’s why we reported that to the yardmaster and like I said, this is what they want.”

The NTSB announced an investigation in March into the company’s safety practices, about a month after the East Palestine derailment put national scrutiny on the railway. The agency released a trove of documents Thursday in connection with a two-day field hearing in the Ohio town investigating the accident......
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Message 2121452 - Posted: 24 Jun 2023, 22:13:07 UTC

There's been problems with bridges and trains, now both are rolled into 1.

Parts of train carrying hazardous materials plunge into Yellowstone River.

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Message 2121472 - Posted: 25 Jun 2023, 1:00:12 UTC - in response to Message 2121452.  

There's been problems with bridges and trains, now both are rolled into 1.

Parts of train carrying hazardous materials plunge into Yellowstone River.


https://goo.gl/maps/ZVog9QFfV8p6aff18
Looks to me like a bridge pier is maybe missing. I think I'd start my investigation there.
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Message 2121486 - Posted: 25 Jun 2023, 6:02:36 UTC

Another view of the train and collapsed bridge from CBS

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Message 2121510 - Posted: 25 Jun 2023, 15:07:11 UTC

Well it did run on rails. :-(

One dead, several injured as roller-coaster derails at Grona Lund amusement park in Sweden.

One person has been killed and seven injured, including children, in a roller-coaster accident at a Stockholm amusement park.

Public broadcaster SVT, citing eyewitnesses, said the Grona Lund amusement park's Jetline roller-coaster had partly derailed during a ride.

"This is tragic and shocking, and regrettably we've learned that one person has died," Grona Lund spokesperson Annika Troselius told public broadcaster SVT.

Ambulances, fire trucks and a helicopter were seen arriving at the park, and police said they were investigating.

Police said there were children and adults among those injured but declined to comment on the extent of the injuries.

Sweden's Culture Minister Parisa Liljestrand said news of the accident was incomprehensible......
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Message 2121734 - Posted: 28 Jun 2023, 22:10:28 UTC

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Message 2121750 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 1:06:56 UTC - in response to Message 2121734.  

Another train derails after hitting vehicle.
Fox 11 LA Amtrak train crashes into vehicle in Moorepark
AP Amtrak train derails after California collision

You shouldn't leave a water tanker parked in a crossing. I'm going to take a guess and say it got high centered. Local news implied, but didn't say, it was a water department vehicle making scheduled deliveries.
As no one was killed NTSB might release the scene PDQ and service on the line can be restored.
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Message 2121766 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 8:42:20 UTC

Again I'm just amazed about the sight of so many barely serviceable timbers sleepers/ties (well they certainly ain't serviceable anymore), though just seeing timber still being used for that purpose on a main line so many times of late just astounds me.
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Message 2121770 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 9:47:28 UTC - in response to Message 2121766.  
Last modified: 29 Jun 2023, 9:48:39 UTC

Again I'm just amazed about the sight of so many barely serviceable timbers sleepers/ties (well they certainly ain't serviceable anymore), though just seeing timber still being used for that purpose on a main line so many times of late just astounds me.
It comes down to cost.
Good hardwoods here in Australia are seriously expensive, so concrete sleepers are economically viable replacements over the long term.
In the US, they have a huge available supply of reasonably priced wood, and tracks laid on wood sleepers require less ballast, and less specialised mechanical equipment to both install & replace.

It all comes down to cost- even if properly maintained (regular inspections & replacement (apparently every 7-14 years as treating the timber is no longer allowed due to it's environmental impact), in the US wood still comes out ahead of concrete, even with it's much higher ongoing maintenance requirements, due to it's so much cheaper initial outlay.
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Message 2121771 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 11:32:20 UTC - in response to Message 2121770.  

even if properly maintained (regular inspections & replacement ...///...

Well that's the thing, skip inspections, then don't do required or scheduled replacements and you end up with rails not being properly supported and retained. All too soon a train will end up in the dirt, possibly on its side, possibly injuring or killing someone, certainly costing money to get back on the track and replacing more track and sleepers.
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Message 2121775 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 13:07:28 UTC

Wood or Concrete? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtyTTijswwg From a guy whose job it is to replace them.
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Message 2121783 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 15:28:09 UTC

He contradicts himself there a few times and a lot of his explanations/excuses seem to be centered on not wanting to spend $'s for better maintenance machinery or just too lazy to make adjustments to current machinery and not wanting to make a decent effort in forming a decent bedding for the lot to sit on.

So in the end all I get from that is the feeling that everything must be done on the cheap and he doesn't like to work too hard which is likely the reason why there are so many of those derailments going on to start with.

Also dumping the timber sleepers/ties into landfill is a really terrible idea as the rotting wood releases greenhouse gases into our atmosphere which has way more than enough in it to start with already (and I won't mention anything about heavy metals and asbestos that gets embedded into those timbers and why they shouldn't be used for landscaping).

Cheers.
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Message 2121802 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 20:22:07 UTC
Last modified: 29 Jun 2023, 20:59:45 UTC

And since Concrete has water in it, there are problems with freezing temps I'd think, though I would not mind being wrong here, CA is working on lowering the amount of CO2 produced when concrete is made, for a bit there was a Plastic sleeper/tie, but I don't know much about that, though by the pics they look good.
The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's
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Message 2121803 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 20:37:52 UTC

Concrete sleepers (ties) have been use right up into the Arctic in Europe, so the water used in making the concrete is not much of an issue, assuming that sufficient curing time is allowed for the particular mix employed. (The critical cure time is a matter of days, so not much of issue).
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Message 2121804 - Posted: 29 Jun 2023, 20:50:12 UTC - in response to Message 2121802.  

It would appear that "plastic" sleepers & ties are getting more popular - here's a link to one company that produces wood, concrete and plastic sleepers, and discusses the pros & cons of each:
https://www.rail-fastener.com/recycled-plastic-railway-sleepers.html
(There's a separate page for each type, linked from the page I've given.)
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Message 2123561 - Posted: 3 Aug 2023, 22:53:15 UTC

Another train derails causing passenger delays.

Long Island Rail Road Train Derails in Queens, Injuring 13.

A Long Island Rail Road train derailed in Queens on Thursday morning, injuring 13 people, with fire department crews responding at a scene that will delay train service this afternoon and possibly tomorrow morning.

The injuries sustained were minor and all individuals are in stable condition, New York City’s Fire Commissioner Laura Kavanagh, told reporters during a press conference. Passengers were able to board a rescue train to Jamaica Station, where those injured were evaluated, Janno Lieber, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority’s chief executive officer, said during the press conference. The MTA oversees the city’s subways, buses and commuter rail lines.

The incident, involving all eight of the train’s cars, occurred at 11:12 a.m. on a train about half a mile east of the Jamaica train station, Lieber said......
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Message 2123677 - Posted: 6 Aug 2023, 21:23:41 UTC

Another comes off the rails.

Pakistan passenger train derailment kills 30 people in country's southern province Sindh.

A passenger train derailed in southern Pakistan, killing at least 30 people and injuring more than 90, local broadcaster Geo reported.

Ten cars on The Hazara Express derailed on Sunday near a town in the southern province of Sindh, around 275 kilometres from Pakistan's largest city, Karachi.

Senior railway officer Mahmoodur Rehman Lakho said injured passengers were transported by rescue teams to the Peoples Hospital in nearby Nawabshah.

Senior police officer Abid Baloch said from the scene of the accident that the rescue operation was complete: dozens of the injured had been brought to safety and the last flipped car cleared.....
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Message 2123707 - Posted: 7 Aug 2023, 15:31:09 UTC

David Streeter has had a serious fall.
Click link for info.
~Sue~

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Message 2123764 - Posted: 8 Aug 2023, 19:49:43 UTC

Virtual Railfan has a new camera in Austell Georgia which has only just gone live, and captured this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XhvgRNVPFQ

It seems he wanted to turn left
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Message 2123782 - Posted: 9 Aug 2023, 7:56:33 UTC - in response to Message 2123764.  

Virtual Railfan has a new camera in Austell Georgia which has only just gone live, and captured this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XhvgRNVPFQ

It seems he wanted to turn left
And couldn't due to the idiots that ignored the markings on the road and stopped there anyway, blocking him from turning.
Grant
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Message boards : Cafe SETI : The Train Thread 3


 
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