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The Train Thread 3
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![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21573 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
The whole UK rail system seems to have been affected by a spate of signal failures recently. Sometimes these are attributed to the theft of electrical wiring from the trackside, but more often it's just left as a generic report without further explanation. The more often unreported bit is most likely 'happenings' from a complete lack of preventative maintenance. A director of a certain American company I once did support work for gave a horrified exclamation that I was being paid for keeping things working. Why pay someone if things are working?... Hence, for a transition period, the support became "response only"... And they suffered their first outages and very greatly increased costs... All in the stupidity of cooking the books, blindly one month at a time... See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
Yet another 1 comes off the rails. Fiery train derailment in Minnesota prompts evacuations of homes. A train hauling ethanol and corn syrup derailed and caught fire in Minnesota early Thursday and nearby residents were ordered to evacuate their homes. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
And yet another jumps the rails. Train derails 25 cars in Montana, spilling unconfirmed contents. At least 25 cars derailed from a train in Montana on Sunday, spilling their contents onto the ground and into a nearby body of water. |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21573 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
What's the economics of train derailments and the cleanups? Or is there a profitable game of the insurance pays?... Certainly, someone suffers paying... Stay clear folks!! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31126 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Certainly, someone suffers paying... Maybe not. Might be like the airlines and there is a false low limit on damages by law. |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13886 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 ![]() ![]() |
What's the economics of train derailments and the cleanups?Don't know how ture it is, but i've heard of the Ford Pinto, and the problem with it's fuel tank in a collision. Supposedly Ford figured out it was cheaper to payoff for any deaths or injuries that occurred than to recall & repair the entire production of Pintos that were affected. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the railways have done the same cost/benefit analysis. Save so much money by cutting back on maintenance/ increasing servicing intervals. Whatever costs are incurred as a result of the anticipated increase in accidents & incidents will still be paid for by the reduced maintenance costs (at least until the lack of maintenance & age of the fleets reaches the point where the accidents & incidents go well beyond the earlier estimates & the whole business starts collapsing in on itself. By that time those that made the decisions will have picked up all their bonuses for improving the bottom line (even though it was only temporary & a result of accounting double speak) and have moved on to greener pastures). Ain't free enterprise great? Grant Darwin NT |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19494 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
And in Montana a train spills its load of beer and powdered clay into a river. Hard cleanup: Montana train derailment spills beer and clay ![]() |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19494 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
AP - Deadly train derailment near The Hague BBC - Dutch rail crash: One dead after passenger train hits crane and derails At least one person has been killed and about 30 injured - some seriously - after a passenger train derailed in the western Netherlands. |
![]() Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 21573 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 ![]() ![]() |
For those USA trains, there looks to be a repeated story of a concertinaed pile-up before the brakes take effect... Maybe some design flaw?... Stay safe folks! Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
rob smith ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22674 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 ![]() ![]() |
With the air activated, air operated brakes, used on freight trains there is a fair time delay between the brakes being applied to the first vehicle in the train and the the last vehicle in the train. Depending on the exact type of brakes used (there are two major type, each with a couple of sub-types) and the train length this delay can be from a second or two up to about 30 seconds or more before the brakes start to come on at the rear of the train, and then it takes time for the braking to build-up to its maximum. So, if the leading loco derails, but dos not break the brake air circuit it might be a few seconds between its derailment and the brake lines being broken (which cause an automatic full brake application) during which time the train will bunch up, and be more prone to the concertenering we see so often. Add to that, if one of the wagons really comes of the rails and decelerates abruptly (or stops "instantly") the crumpled mess is inevitable, even on good straight and level track. Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31126 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
With the air activated, air operated brakes, used on freight trains there is a fair time delay between the brakes being applied to the first vehicle in the train and the the last vehicle in the train. Depending on the exact type of brakes used (there are two major type, each with a couple of sub-types) and the train length this delay can be from a second or two up to about 30 seconds or more before the brakes start to come on at the rear of the train, and then it takes time for the braking to build-up to its maximum. So, if the leading loco derails, but dos not break the brake air circuit it might be a few seconds between its derailment and the brake lines being broken (which cause an automatic full brake application) during which time the train will bunch up, and be more prone to the concertenering we see so often. Add to that, if one of the wagons really comes of the rails and decelerates abruptly (or stops "instantly") the crumpled mess is inevitable, even on good straight and level track. All of this also depends on the presence of absence of an EOT (end of train device) or FRED. Modern EOT's are supposed to detect an emergency application of the brakes and immediately release the air pressure at the end of the train. If the engineer calls for emergency application, as the EOT is in radio contact with the lead locomotive it drops air pressure at the speed of light. All of this is complicated more if the train has DPU's (distributed power units) or helper locomotives. Part of the reason for the FRED is to replace the brakeman on the caboose, who had to tell the engineer when the air pressure at the rear was enough that the brakes were released. It is all extremely over complex, as it was added on to many times, and not how a system would be designed today, but it works and replacing it on all the rolling stock would be time and cost prohibitive. Of course as trains carry mixed weights on the cars, brake application will have very different effectiveness on a car by car basis. You expect loaded cars to pile into empties as the empties stop much faster. It is amazing how much of the time it works. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
I'll believe this when I see it actually happen. Long train regulations coming? The Senate is aiming for a late April markup of the Railway Safety Act of 2023, which would further regulate railroads after the East Palestine, Ohio, disaster.But something certainly needs to be done Cheers. |
rob smith ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22674 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380 ![]() ![]() |
They will fight with their favourite weapon - inertia. It costs less than implementing the modifications, far less than lawyers to fight in court, and hey, the only loosers are the insurance companies.... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31126 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
The insurance company bean counters predict the payouts and raise the policy premiums but that is hidden on the P&L. The shipper always pays and he charges the consumer. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
This company just doesn't want to stay on the rails. Multiple Norfolk Southern train cars derail near Pittsburgh. Early reports say that the cars were empty and staid upright this time. |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 31126 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 ![]() ![]() |
Early reports say that the cars were empty and staid upright this time. A lot of RR's have problems with empties. They put them too far in the front. Just ask any model RR guy why he has to put weights in his cars to keep them on the tracks. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
Not another 1. :-( Train carrying hazardous materials derails in rural Maine, residents warned to 'stay clear'. More details are expected soon. |
![]() ![]() Send message Joined: 24 Jan 00 Posts: 37376 Credit: 261,360,520 RAC: 489 ![]() ![]() |
It maybe over a year late and well over budget, but it has finally happened. First driverless metro train crosses Sydney Harbour underwater. Cheers. |
W-K 666 ![]() Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19494 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 ![]() ![]() |
YouTube - The Telegraph - Train maker builds GWR King Class replica worth £20,000 A hobbyist built a replica of the GWR King Class steam train - and it could sell for up to £20,000. |
Grant (SSSF) Send message Joined: 19 Aug 99 Posts: 13886 Credit: 208,696,464 RAC: 304 ![]() ![]() |
That is an exceptional piece of work, a great example of quality workmanship. Grant Darwin NT |
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