Big City Life. Unsustainable?

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Profile iwazaru
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Message 1994749 - Posted: 22 May 2019, 15:01:05 UTC

This is a "new" problem. A lot of forces at play making it hard to realize there's a problem, let alone pinpoint a few of the major causes. We're a bit like frogs getting slowly boiled.

And it's making us go backward instead of forward on a few issues. One prime example was during the Trump/Brexit peak when otherwise smart people started asking, "Should everybody have the right to vote?".

I don't think a lot people see what's going on. I'll just use Tokyo as one example. Sky-high rents in Tokyo these past few decades were "classic" supply and demand. This is easy for most of us to understand.

But something else is going on now. Something completely different. Canadian big cities for example did not suddenly become Tokyo. Well technically they have, but for different reasons. What are those reasons?

What's so new and disruptive?
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Message 1995071 - Posted: 24 May 2019, 22:06:29 UTC

It's a result of population density, and that cities are frequently populated with centrist Democrats.
Probably repeated in just about every other state, and if there are any democrats in rural areas they will tend to the fringes, politically as far away from the Republicans as they can get.

You could ask from this map. "How did Clinton win the popular vote?"



Perhaps generally true, but the map f WI is not showing a big city. Madison is north and west of there, roughly. Also a ways from Janesville & Milwaukee.

I lived in WI 2 years. That yellow region looks like the nice country drive I took as an alternate route to Chicago.


Apologies, but I have to move this discussion over here.

I can't believe we're still doing this "Clinton won the popular vote" thing. I don't know what kind of science-fiction books you guys are reading, but the ones I've read are full of warnings about ideas like these... Nick, by arguing for a popular vote you instantly made all the RED counties above COLONIES of the cities. Is that what you want?

- - - - - -

@SARGE You're right about WI but AFAICT Nick doesn't want to talk about WI specifically I think. I think he wants to steer this discussion towards popular voting and Brexit. Which is fine :) It's all part of the same debate.
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Message 1995101 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 0:46:46 UTC - in response to Message 1995071.  

OKay if you have objections to the "Hillary won the popular vote" comment, how about, "Can the Democrats ever have a controlling influence in the Senate?"
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Message 1995104 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 0:57:57 UTC - in response to Message 1995101.  
Last modified: 25 May 2019, 1:27:26 UTC

I don't know where you're going with this but I thought (and I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong) that under Obama they did at some point. And did jack with it?

If this is something you guys have been discussing I totally missed it.

Edit: Are you trying to say that 2 senators per State is a bad idea?
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Message 1995112 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 1:54:37 UTC - in response to Message 1995104.  

Are you trying to say that 2 senators per State is a bad idea?

I think that having two senators per state gives small population states too much power, and when you add their numbers into the Electoral College it only adds to unbalanced effect already included in the number of House Representatives per state.

I do recognise that there needs to be a system that ensures that the big states don't have too much control, but IMO the system is over corrected.
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Message 1995115 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 2:16:51 UTC - in response to Message 1995112.  

I think that having two senators per state gives small population states too much power...


Well it's both set in stone AND a good idea. States are equal.

Let me make this point in a roundabout way. Countries in the EU are equal in their sovereignty. If the EU had a US senate system, BREXIT would never have happened.
As it is, the Germans are calling the shots.
Pick your poison :)
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Message 1995119 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 2:23:31 UTC - in response to Message 1995115.  

Well it's both set in stone


And that is probably the reason why the US political system will eventually fail.

If communities fail to adapt to changing times they are doomed to failure.
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Message 1995121 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 2:35:07 UTC - in response to Message 1995119.  

Your not thinking this through.

What a "Trump" can do to make rural America red, another "Trump" can do to make the cities red.
In fact, it would probably be a lot easier.
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Message 1995125 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 4:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1995121.  

Your not thinking this through.

What a "Trump" can do to make rural America red, another "Trump" can do to make the cities red.
In fact, it would probably be a lot easier.

Rump did not make rural America red. Richard Nixon and his Southern Strategy did so, along with the defection of the DixieCrats from the democratic party. Rump simply exploited what was there already.
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Message 1995130 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 4:52:14 UTC - in response to Message 1995125.  

And Bernie could've turned a lot of it blue.

And Obama could have too.... If he actually did anything in those years he had the senate on his side.
But he sat on his hands.
People voted for change. He didn't deliver.

And why were smart people in the cities tripping over themselves to vote for Hillary? What was Hillary ever going to do for middle-class-city folk?

It's a big club and we ain't in it.

The day Amazon has to pay even a LITTLE bit of taxes, is the day any of us here has the right to say, "Yeah, I like my president."
Until then we're just bickering over my-grifter-is-better-than-yours.
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Message 1995227 - Posted: 25 May 2019, 17:23:21 UTC - in response to Message 1995130.  

And why were smart people in the cities tripping over themselves to vote for Hillary? What was Hillary ever going to do for middle-class-city folk?

I live in a large city, Los Angeles, and I have never found a person who wanted Hillary. Many anyone but Rump, never a pro Billary. She bribed her way onto the ticket and the result is predictable. Americans don't want corrupt politicians. Pelosi is right, don't impeach, let Rump do it to himself, he is doing a wonderful job of it now. If he keeps it up, he is going to look worse than Nixon plus Hillary. He's going to look like a Gambino!
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Message 1995362 - Posted: 26 May 2019, 17:31:14 UTC - in response to Message 1995130.  
Last modified: 26 May 2019, 17:32:07 UTC

And Bernie could've turned a lot of it blue.

And Obama could have too.... If he actually did anything in those years he had the senate on his side.
But he sat on his hands.
People voted for change. He didn't deliver.

And why were smart people in the cities tripping over themselves to vote for Hillary? What was Hillary ever going to do for middle-class-city folk?

It's a big club and we ain't in it.

The day Amazon has to pay even a LITTLE bit of taxes, is the day any of us here has the right to say, "Yeah, I like my president."
Until then we're just bickering over my-grifter-is-better-than-yours.


And here we will differ, at least a little.
HRC would not have set in motion or allowed for the attacks on Roe v. Wade.
She would not have had tried a complete ban on Muslims.
Had children in cages.
So on and so forth.
But, she most definitely was a flawed candidate.
Perhaps we'd be interefering in Yemen more than we currently are under HRC?
"Pick your poison," indeed.
And what the Trumpists don't understand, is a good portion of us would have been fighting HRC on her worst impulses, had she won. People who'd only contacted their elected officials once in the previous 20 or so years contacting them multiple times now, never made political donations but making them now ... HRC's successes and failures would have been guiding the choices we'd make on those things, just like DJT's complete failures (except maybe something on criminal justice reform???) are guiding them now.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1996290 - Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 21:44:15 UTC - in response to Message 1995362.  

And here we will differ, at least a little :)

It's not that you're wrong but... you're wrong :)

Trump is not the cause. He is the effect.
If an Obama presidency can deliver a Trump presidency ... what would a Hillary presidency deliver?

(@ Gary However I am glad to hear Pasadena is not really a Hillary fan)
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Message 1996301 - Posted: 1 Jun 2019, 22:09:35 UTC - in response to Message 1995227.  

Pelosi is right, don't impeach, let Rump do it to himself, he is doing a wonderful job of it now. If he keeps it up, he is going to look worse than Nixon plus Hillary. He's going to look like a Gambino!


This is why I have such a fascination with psychopaths. Normal people can't help themselves but treat psychopaths (what most people incorrectly call a**holes when push comes to shove)... as OTHER normal people.

I've told you this before, a lie detector works only on you & me (and everybody else in these forums).
But Trump?
Like water on a duck.

IOW people like you & me already knew Trump was a Gambino, likely before he ever announced he was RUNNING for President.

Mr. grab-'em-by-the-pu**y had a million chances to implode before the women of the United States decided they'd rather vote for a d*** than a c***.

Go figure.

(IOW there's NO-ONE that can touch the Trump except... Trump himself. The only way a "Trump" implodes is if he does it to himself.)
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Message 1996343 - Posted: 2 Jun 2019, 1:52:53 UTC - in response to Message 1996290.  

And here we will differ, at least a little :)

It's not that you're wrong but... you're wrong :)

Trump is not the cause. He is the effect.
If an Obama presidency can deliver a Trump presidency ... what would a Hillary presidency deliver?

(@ Gary However I am glad to hear Pasadena is not really a Hillary fan)


I thought you were better than this. Never anywhere in that post nor anywhere else have I said Trump is a cause or an effect nor implied it.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 1996371 - Posted: 2 Jun 2019, 4:53:58 UTC - in response to Message 1996343.  

I don't know why you took my reply for an attack :) We're just talking...
Never anywhere in that post nor anywhere else have I said Trump is a cause or an effect nor implied it.

If you re-read what I wrote you will see I technically "never said you did". I was just setting up a question which you ignored for some reason.

You implied Hillary would have been better at a few things... but since I'm pretty sure Obama "built" those cages (and even if he didn't, he deported a record number of people) my brain had trail of thoughts...

Either Trump had a magic flute and the mice spontaneously followed him mesmerized like a cult leader...
Or Obama did a bad job and America voted for a lunatic on the off chance he really would make America great again.
But it was Obama that was supposed to make America great again. He didn't. So we get Trump.
Yet Obama was a nice guy. Hillary a grade-A narcissist. So I'll ask again:

If an Obama presidency can deliver a Trump presidency... what would a Hillary presidency deliver?
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